Which black inks are fade proof and are easy on fountain pens of Fine nib?

[Shyahi]

Hi everyone hope all are doing fine and in good health.

 

I am looking for a fountain pen ink which is fade proof and goes easy on Fountain pen with F nib as well as on the pocket.

 

I am new so with my basic knowledge i know that Iron gall inks are solid inks which last till the paper lasts.

 

 Other brands like Bulletproof inks are also there but they are not easily available.
 

I had shortlisted ESS but Mr Victor  at the company being short tempered just wants to throw the sale on the face. The way he dealt with my enquiry I am least bothered in the ink and dont want to give him business any more.

 

I have easy access to only below inks

Diamine registrars ink

Pilot black

Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink

Does ESS work like a small road side vendor with  burgers on sale that they have a specific time frame to deal with and after that they close the shop?

 

Ess you better behave well with your customers if you dont have minimum courtesy to reply and 2-3 emails are too much for you then take a printout of the email and gulp them down your throat like you expect us to order after all this 

[OCArt]

Everyone has off days, a little tolerance is often called for.

[yazeh]

Hi there, 

 

When you say, lightfast are you planning to keep your written text under sun?

 

If you have the choice between Essri and Diamine Registrars, I would go for Essri. Diamine Registrars is much drier and I have had some flow issues. It writes blue/black and depending the paper overtime it turns into black. 

One thing you need to know is that IG inks have no resistance to direct sunlight. Also if the notebooks that are in high humidity places (75%) the ink will breakdown overtime. If however, you live in climate controlled area you'd be fine. 

 

For Pilot Black check this 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327687-fading-test-for-4-black-inks/

 

I don't know about Pelikan Brilliant Black. 

 

I know most Noodler's bulletproof blacks are light fast. 

Otherwise you can check pigment inks, platinum Carbon Black (pigment ink) or Sailor Kiwaguro. There are many more. 

 

You can also check De Atramentis and Rohrer and Klingner document inks. Though I don't know if they are available in india. 

 

 

[LizEF]

3 hours ago, Shyahi said:

I am new so with my basic knowledge i know that Iron gall inks are solid inks which last till the paper lasts.

That's not the same as fade-proof.  My understanding is that iron gall inks are water-resistant, but not (necessarily?) fade-proof.  If your book, like most books, spends most of its life closed, fade-resistance wouldn't be a big concern.

 

3 hours ago, Shyahi said:

I have easy access to only below inks

Diamine registrars ink

Pilot black

Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink

If you go to this thread:

 

...and search for the word "fade", you'll find lots and lots of tests, one of which is explicitly about your second and third inks - I refrained from reading it so you could enjoy the surprise.

[JulieParadise]

If you want a fade proof ink suitable for fine nibs, Platinum Carbon Black or Sailor Kiwa-Guro would be my recommendation as these are pigmented inks and they will not move AT ALL.

 

I have a Platinum Carbon Desk Pen inked up with Platinum Carbon Black since around 2016. It may not be the prettiest pen, but it is designed for that ink and holds up very well in terms of never drying out, no hard starts, no skipping, never had a problem. I flush this one about once a year and use the cartridges of Platinum Carbon Black as well as refills from a bottle of Carbon Black, depending on whether I am near my desk or on a trip, as I use this pen also when I have to travel. 

 

This ink has also been used in various other pens, among those a Pilot Custom Heritage 912 PO for weeks and months, also: Never had a problem. 

 

Sailor Kiwa-Guro is another amazing ink that I used in that Pilot CH 912 PO, a 912 FA, severeal Sailor pens with extra fine, fine or Zoom nibs, Platinum Preppy pens, Pilot Petit fountain pens and others.

 

Both inks are available in cartridges and bottles; I use both with cartridge pens mainly and have decanted the inks into little squeeze bottles (like soft eyedropper bottles) that already have a syringe attached to their opening. That allows me to fill up cartridges directly from the squeeze bottle without submerging the tip/nib of a fountain pen or a converter into a bottle. 

 

I don't know whether I would use these inks in hard to clean piston fillers, not because I had bad experiences (I use all sorts of shimmer/glitter inks in piston fillers), but still ... just a gut feeling. As long as you have a tightly sealed pen, these inks are well behaved, just don't let them dry out in a pen completely.

 

If that feels too risky, you may give (J.) Herbin Perle noire a try. I use this in a Pilot Capless/Décimo pretty much all the time, there is always at least on pen filled with it and it never gave me trouble, is easy to clean, a well behaved solid black and pretty lightfast, but also surprisingly smudge proof and water restitant.

 

Although not labeled as particularly fade or water proof, it does withstand both pretty well. I know this as I conduct, err, do (without any scientific measurements) regular lightfast tests in a window. I just write a line with every inked pen at the beginning of a month on two similar sheets of paper, then one gets stuck in my window (inside, behind the glass, but facing outwards, of course), while the other paper is stored within my current notebook. 

 

Believe me: These blacks are all fade proof, Perle noire may get a little lighter when sitting in my south-east facing window in June or July for the whole month (direct sunlight from 6-12/13 o'clock), but iron gall inks, at least all I have tested (Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black, Platinum's Classic line, several KWZ IG inks) are not fade proof. They may be waterproof, but they do not do well under sunlight, but turn into a very pale grey instead, barely legible.

[Mercian]

I second JulieParadise’s suggestion of Sailor Kiwa Guro - it is my current ‘permanent’ ink.
In my European ‘F’ and ‘EF’ nibs it is  like writing with liquid silk, and I have found that it doesn’t fade. Platinum ‘Carbon Black’ should be just as good.

 

I have also used Noodler’s Black as my ‘permanent’ ink, and found that it, too, does not fade - but you have already said that you cannot buy it easily.

 

You do need to keep in mind that I live in England - the sky here is usually a shade of grey, and even in ‘high summer’ our light is never as bright as that in Hyderabad!

That said, I have had notes written with Noodler’s Black pinned-up on a noticeboard near a south-facing window for six years now, and it has not changed in the least. Notes written with ballpoint pen inks have faded completely in much less time than that.

Writing made with Kiwa Guro has only been on that notice board for one year, but in that ‘short’ time it, too, has not changed at all.

 

If you are not restricting yourself to only black inks, Sailor make two other pigment-based inks; Sei Boku and Sou Boku.

Each of those is a variety of dark blue, with Sei Boku having a slight green tinge, and Sou Boku looking more like a traditional iron-gall blue-black (i.e. a dark blue with hints of grey in its colour).

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, yazeh said:

One thing you need to know is that IG inks have no resistance to direct sunlight.

 

@OCArt has just shown that Hero 232 (blue-black, iron-gall) ink has at least some (and, actually, quite decent) resistance to fading due exposure to sunlight:

 

[Shyahi]

6 hours ago, yazeh said:

Hi there, 

 

When you say, lightfast are you planning to keep your written text under sun?

 

If you have the choice between Essri and Diamine Registrars, I would go for Essri. Diamine Registrars is much drier and I have had some flow issues. It writes blue/black and depending the paper overtime it turns into black. 

One thing you need to know is that IG inks have no resistance to direct sunlight. Also if the notebooks that are in high humidity places (75%) the ink will breakdown overtime. If however, you live in climate controlled area you'd be fine. 

 

For Pilot Black check this 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327687-fading-test-for-4-black-inks/

 

I don't know about Pelikan Brilliant Black. 

 

I know most Noodler's bulletproof blacks are light fast. 

Otherwise you can check pigment inks, platinum Carbon Black (pigment ink) or Sailor Kiwaguro. There are many more. 

 

You can also check De Atramentis and Rohrer and Klingner document inks. Though I don't know if they are available in india. 

 

 

Oh didn't knew at all about ig inks thanks for the information on that.

 

The yellow page registers are usually locked up and stored in normal cupboard not temperature controlled.

 So due to the climate variation all year round From hot summer of 40C max till 20/25C year end i feel it will impact those yellow register books but they should maintain the letters clearly as they are used for legal reference of sales,purchase records and reopened maybe after 2/4 yrs or maybe more.

 

 That's why for this reason i feel Register inks of Diamine being good but their availability is just one in stock with authorised seller here.

 

 Initially i have been using ball pens and they do the work just fine they also have slightly shaded in the colour slightly for records which are 4-8 yrs old.

 

I guess platinum carbon black is my option in a platinum preppy F nib pen.

 

Also along with water resistant  what should be the other important property to consider for preserving the writing and the colour in best possible way

[Shyahi]

9 hours ago, LizEF said:

That's not the same as fade-proof.  My understanding is that iron gall inks are water-resistant, but not (necessarily?) fade-proof.  If your book, like most books, spends most of its life closed, fade-resistance wouldn't be a big concern.

 

If you go to this thread:

 

...and search for the word "fade", you'll find lots and lots of tests, one of which is explicitly about your second and third inks - I refrained from reading it so you could enjoy the surprise.

Hey hi thanks for head start.

 

The books are not fountain pen friendly and none of the paper i write on as well.
 

They are almost the same book as below

[A Smug Dill]

3 hours ago, Shyahi said:

I guess platinum carbon black is my option in a platinum preppy F nib pen.

 

3 hours ago, Shyahi said:

The books are not fountain pen friendly and none of the paper i write on as well.

 

Then Sailor Kiwaguro may be more suitable than Platinum Carbon Black for your use case.

[yazeh]

5 hours ago, Shyahi said:

Oh didn't knew at all about ig inks thanks for the information on that.

 

The yellow page registers are usually locked up and stored in normal cupboard not temperature controlled.

 So due to the climate variation all year round From hot summer of 40C max till 20/25C year end i feel it will impact those yellow register books but they should maintain the letters clearly as they are used for legal reference of sales,purchase records and reopened maybe after 2/4 yrs or maybe more.

 

 That's why for this reason i feel Register inks of Diamine being good but their availability is just one in stock with authorised seller here.

 

 Initially i have been using ball pens and they do the work just fine they also have slightly shaded in the colour slightly for records which are 4-8 yrs old.

 

I guess platinum carbon black is my option in a platinum preppy F nib pen.

 

Also along with water resistant  what should be the other important property to consider for preserving the writing and the colour in best possible way

IG inks are extremely durable. Most western documents, if not all are written in them. However, high humidity (75% above) (not temperature) can affect them. On the plus side IG Inks are best for bad/thin paper. 

Unfortunately bulletproof inks, soak into thin paper and you'll have bleed through. I don't which part of India you live, if you're in low humidity area, you should be fine. If not, I won't recommend IG ink and would stick would pigment ink. 

[yazeh]

10 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

@OCArt has just shown that Hero 232 (blue-black, iron-gall) ink has at least some (and, actually, quite decent) resistance to fading due exposure to sunlight:

 

Good to know!

[LizEF]

7 hours ago, Shyahi said:

Hey hi thanks for head start.

You're very welcome!

 

8 hours ago, Shyahi said:

The books are not fountain pen friendly and none of the paper i write on as well.

I agree with ASD, PCB isn't a good option for paper that's not FP-friendly.  I haven't tried Kiwa-guro yet, but just from reviews, I'd guess it would be better for this.

[arcfide]

If you are restricted to only using non-archival papers that are not fountain pen friendly, then the relative durability of pigmented inks and IG inks might not matter as the paper itself might wear out before the IG would wear out in storage. In those cases, the improved behavior of dry IG inks on such paper may make them better for you than the pigmented inks. If the books are just unfriendly to fountain pens, but are otherwise archival quality, then the carbon inks could very well work okay, and the reputation of Sailor's Kiwaguro is that it is more well-behaved on poor paper than Platinum's Carbon ink. 

[Z man]

Hi Shyahi,

 

With so many suggestions for you, it is strange no one has asked pertinent questions. For instance, what do you mean by "fade proof"? Do you mean resistant to direct sunlight or that it won't fade over time? Also, you stated the paper is not fountain-pen friendly. What inks have you tried? Have you tried the Diamine Registrar, Pilot, or Pelikan inks you've mentioned? Have you tried any inks that work?

 

Here's a question for you. How long do you expect these documents to needed and used? 20 years? 30 years? 100 years?

 

Practically speaking, just about any ink that works with your account books will suffice for general and long-term accounting purposes. As a retired archaeologist, I only worry about whether the ink and paper will outlast its purpose. In other words, buy the cheapest ink that works and ignore all the rest.

[Shyahi]

16 hours ago, yazeh said:

IG inks are extremely durable. Most western documents, if not all are written in them. However, high humidity (75% above) (not temperature) can affect them. On the plus side IG Inks are best for bad/thin paper. 

Unfortunately bulletproof inks, soak into thin paper and you'll have bleed through. I don't which part of India you live, if you're in low humidity area, you should be fine. If not, I won't recommend IG ink and would stick would pigment ink. 

Ok thanks will look into it

[Shyahi]

18 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

 

Then Sailor Kiwaguro may be more suitable than Platinum Carbon Black for your use case.

Looks so from the paper point of view as its 70gsm paper. which i dont know will be friendly enough 

[A Smug Dill]

14 minutes ago, Shyahi said:

Looks so from the paper point of view as its 70gsm paper. which i dont know will be friendly enough 

 

That means nothing when it comes to fountain pen ‘friendliness’. I've had 120gsm paper in ‘premium’ German hardcover journals on which fountain pen ink feathers like there is no tomorrow, and bleeds like a stuck pig. I've used much lighter and thinner paper that don't have those issues.

 

[Shyahi]

5 hours ago, Z man said:

Hi Shyahi,

 

With so many suggestions for you, it is strange no one has asked pertinent questions. For instance, what do you mean by "fade proof"? Do you mean resistant to direct sunlight or that it won't fade over time? Also, you stated the paper is not fountain-pen friendly. What inks have you tried? Have you tried the Diamine Registrar, Pilot, or Pelikan inks you've mentioned? Have you tried any inks that work?

 

Here's a question for you. How long do you expect these documents to needed and used? 20 years? 30 years? 100 years?

 

Practically speaking, just about any ink that works with your account books will suffice for general and long-term accounting purposes. As a retired archaeologist, I only worry about whether the ink and paper will outlast its purpose. In other words, buy the cheapest ink that works and ignore all the rest.

I need more of not fading over time and less of sunlight resistant because it won't be opened in the sunlight much.

 

No i haven't but those were the inks which were easily available here in 60ml bottle.

 

With just little experience with fountain pens and inks i haven't tried but did write with Diamine Jet black smooth flow ink but not water resistant.

 

The record's are to be retained as long the as business is working which could be 20 or more.

 

 That is an account book indeed but so far written with ball pen.

 

 In banks cheque also i had signed few with Diamine jet black but as in closed Air conditioner environment.

if it was done outdoors then tiny sweat drop would make it useless.

 

For the paper quality some mention it as 70gsm and some dont mention anything about the paper thickness.

 

 But it feather's and sometimes there's bleed through as well

[JulieParadise]

As I was asked about the kind of squeeze bottle with an integrated blunt needle that I mentioned above, here is a photo:

 

The translation of German "Nadelflasche" would be "needle bottle", although you might also find these bottles under different names for uses around e-smoking (refills) or crafting (applying glue).

 

I have found these very useful for inks that I either use in cartridge pens mainly or that I would not like to smudge around with, like the black pigmented inks I menationed above (Sailor Kiwa-Guro and Platinum Carbon Black). Those bottles also work well for refilling cartridge/converter pens on the go or when refilling international cartridges, as the needle does fit these.