Value of Watermans

[Alexander M.]

Earlier today, I got two Waterman pens from one of my teachers as she saw me using a Metropolitan in class a few weeks back. She lent them to me until I graduated, saying that "they had not been used in 20 years". I originally posted this on r/fountainpens, and there I got help IDing them as a Man 100 Opera and a Gentleman Sterling Silver. Both of the nibs look great, and after many hours of cleaning, they each have been inked and wrote with, although briefly. The Opera has no noticeable scratches at all, while the Gentleman has a few but still looks great. I ordered new converters for them as one is cracked but not leaking and the other one has a cartridge in it. As a student, I occasionally have to leave my bag unattended and honestly I'm just a bit paranoid. Because they are not my own pens, I really do not want to lose/have them stolen. I am wondering if there is some source for finding the prices/modern day value? Looking for the Opera, I saw prices between 150 and 700USD.

[crescentfiller]

Ebay. Completed Listings.

[Mysterious Mose]

25 minutes ago, crescentfiller said:

Ebay. Completed Listings.

Better - eBay sold.  Completed listings might give you many listings that ended without being sold.

[noyesville]

Since the value of Waterman Pens has been raised, I have a question related to that topic:  Looking on Ebay I found a listing for a gold-overlaid early Waterman's Pen.  It must date from about 1903 +/-, because it is an eye-drop filler, and the gold overlay is on black hard rubber.  It is for sale for $20,000 (sic) as a truly rare pen.  I have one just like it, but I am pretty sure neither the one on Ebay or mine is a 0514 model.  (An image of that is in Steinberg's book on identifying fountain pens, and the overlay is quite different and more complex.}  Mine is 14 kt. gold overlay, with an identifying mark on the barrel.  Beautiful, but obviously not one of the rarest pens in the world.  Anyone have any ideas about relatuve value? 

[I-am-not-really-here]

A leading zero in the number indicates gold-filled, e.g. '0514.' No leading number indicates solid gold, usually 14kt, e.g. '514.'  Ebay sellers can list items for any price they want, rational to irrational.  That's why looking at Sold Items is always a better indicator of value.

 

All else equal, a solid gold overlay will be higher in value than its gold-filled variant, which in turn will be higher than the Sterling Silver version.  
 

Personally, I try to follow a rule - if the Sterling version is worth x then gold-filled should not be higher than 1.25x and solid gold 3x-5x.  Others will have different valuation methods.

[shalitha33]

Please note that I'm no expert on this matter and i can be 100% wrong (most likely).

As mentioned above always look for the number.  some sellers will call it a 514 when its actually a 0514 . best to always ask for an image of the based of the barrel. If you are dealing with the silver overlay only case I have heard about being the exception is the noodlers version of the tree bark overlay.

Always look at the sold auctions and not listings that are getting posted again and again. Also just because one list a pen as a waterman doesn't always mean it is or it is worth the money they are asking. This is not just limited to waterman pens.

You can see some cheapie pearl overlay passing as a super rare parker or a super rare waterman with a price tag closing on 10k. You can spot these very easily due to the quality of workmanship put in to the overlay.

https://www.vintagepens.com/cheapie_overlays.shtml

As for overlays there seems to be many variants. If you get a coin filler or a 14p then price will go through the roof. if you get a coin filler overlay on a eyedropper that too can go up high,  

https://www.vintagepens.com/Waterman_overlay_patterns.shtml 

There is also a diamond embedded version it seems. I would expect that to top the rest.



I would expect rare overlays and high relief overlays to cost significantly more than a machined overlay pattern.
originally hand engraved and acid etched (was this silver only ? ) would cost differently in the catalogue. although nowadays I have no clue.

This is a good place to check for old catalogues
https://pencollectorsofamerica.org/reference-library/waterman/ 

If you expand in to safety pens then continental overlays ....

https://www.tenpen.it/article/waterman-safetythe-art-overlay-additions-part-1

[crescentfiller]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:12 AM, Mysterious Mose said:

Better - eBay sold.  Completed listings might give you many listings that ended without being sold.

 

I like to look at Completed because I can see the range of offerings and see when I pen has been offered repeatedly with price reductions. Seeing a pen that went for X on a BIN tells little or nothing.

 

Also, look at sold listings on pen dealer sites. The late Gary Lehrer's GoPens site shows sold pen prices from previous catalogs, so you get the high end sales (he got top prices).