Ink blob fears!

[BambinoFortunato]

So, I have three pens I bought on eBay in the last several months: a Gold Bond semi-flex lever filler (probably late 1920s or early 1930s), an Onward lever filler (1930s-ish) and an Eagle Pencil Co. "Prince" model lever filler semi-flex nib fountain pen (black chased hard rubber from around 1920).

 

The Gold Bond and the Eagle were so dry as to be unusable. The Onward was great, but every few minutes it would fling out a blob of ink while writing, resulting in a set of bedsheets and my keyboard getting splashed on separate occasions. So, I took all three in to a very respected shop to get them fixed.

 

After repairs

The Gold Bond went from dry, to occasionally working, to flinging ink, then back to dry, then the nib came loose and fell out of the pen. I have to take it back since whatever they did obviously didn't work.

 

The Eagle now mostly works great. I filled it with Herbin's very wet Poussiere de Lune and it flooded with messy blots. Then I tried Iroshizuku Yama-Guri, which has been mostly fine. It did, however blob one drop of ink in the last several days, but I chalk this up to my accidentally flipping it around in my hand suddenly and old pens being more liable to ink-flinging anyway. I've tried to be careful and so far it seems ok.

 

The Onward I filled with the usually well behaved Parker Quink Blue-Black. The last several days it has been largely fine. It flung ink once this morning., but I'm thinking it may have been because the sac was almost empty, and it had been sitting in a drawer overnight letting ink pool in the feed. I refilled the pen and now it isn't blotting even if I purposefully shake it.

 

By contrast, my more modern pens won't blot at all even with the sort really heavy test shaking that would never happen by accident when writing. Even my Esterbrook J and Parker Vacumatic are this way - though I'm guessing feeds and whatnot improved a lot between 1920 and 1947.

 

I love the Eagle and Onward pens, but I am a little paranoid. My understanding is that older vintage pens (with their feeds lacking the little ridges of later pens) tend to be wetter and will blot if shaken hard enough, as well as being more prone to blotting as the ratio of air to ink in the sac increases. I'm hoping that if I keep them filled I can use them safely. I'm just wondering if I can use them with care but without being totally paranoid about surroundings or clothes that I don't want ink stains on. If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thank you!

[BambinoFortunato]

Here's a photo of the Eagle (top) and Onward (bottom). Any advice on how to use, care for, or prevent messiness with these pens would be a huge help. Thanks again!

[inkstainedruth]

You might try a drier ink, such as some of the Pelikan 4001 series ones.  Pelikan nibs tend to be wet writers because the ink is so dry -- I had planned to use my first one (a 1990s era M400) for drawing, but Iroshizuku Yama-Guri was much too wet an ink for it (OTOH, Noodler's Walnut did very well in that pen, and so did Edelstein Smoky Quartz).  

The Onward is a very attractive pen, BTW.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[BambinoFortunato]

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

You might try a drier ink, such as some of the Pelikan 4001 series ones.  Pelikan nibs tend to be wet writers because the ink is so dry -- I had planned to use my first one (a 1990s era M400) for drawing, but Iroshizuku Yama-Guri was much too wet an ink for it (OTOH, Noodler's Walnut did very well in that pen, and so did Edelstein Smoky Quartz).  

The Onward is a very attractive pen, BTW.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Thanks. I'll give Pelikan 4001 series ink a try. It's a bummer, though, because the nib itself isn't too wet, just the feed. I'd love an equally wet writing experience without the feed throwing ink around. Oh well. I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

[Sailor Kenshin]

If the pen drips, I would suspect an ill-fitting or leaky sac.

[BambinoFortunato]

2 hours ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

If the pen drips, I would suspect an ill-fitting or leaky sac.

Thank you. I'm going to go back to the shop when the vintage pen repairman is there and talk about it with him, so I'll be sure to ask about that. He's done really good work on another pen of mine in the past, so in no way do I mean to cast any aspersions on his craftsmanship. It is frustrating, though, but I imagine these old pens are finnicky - especially given that they are on the older end of vintage.

 

There sure are a lot of modern fountain pens that I love, but I wish modern makers would make more pens like a chased hard rubber flat top as well as pens that aren't so big. 

[BambinoFortunato]

So I bought Pelikan’s brown and their black inks from the 4001 line. They seem to be working so far with no mess. Again, giving the simplicity (no fins etc) of 1920s feeds I’m guessing these pens will always be more of a shake hazard than newer models but I’ll see how things go. I need to take the Gold Bond back anyway since the job fell off and there’s obviously something wrong there. The Eagle and Onward seem ok for the moment so hopefully no more repairs are needed and I can just accept that they are very wet (and maybe not the pens to be using while wearing something white just to be safe haha). 
 

I have a modern Pelikan m200 that’s pretty wet by modern standards. I once tried filling it with Diamine Chocolate Brown Ink but that ink was so wet that the m200 was flinging droplets everywhere and I had to admit that it just wasn’t a good match for that pen. 
 

this experience is actually turning me onto drier inks in general. The extra feedback actually lends me more control and seems to be leading to better penmanship. We’ll see how it goes. 

[amberleadavis]

Thank you for the update!  I am glad Ruth had a suggestion.  I was with Sailor in thinking it was a sac problem.  

[Bo Bo Olson]

Old pens often have  slick feeds  or to the sides of the feed; wide & wide spread combs that produce heavy flow.....for nibs that were often more flexible than modern.

 

I don't know how flexible your nibs are....there were in that time nails also. But the advice to use dry 4001 inks is I guess a good one.

 

Japanese inks are very wet as are many Noodler inks.

Once Waterman was once for generations considered a wet ink ....but there are Noodler users who consider Waterman a dry ink, so that tells you how wet some Noodler inks are.

 

Blobs are common on Eye Droppers.

I was using R&K Salix, a dry IG ink in my pre-24 MB safety pen. And It blobbed on me. It has a WNWN nib....Weak Kneed Wet Noodle Nib...a level or two more flexible than a Wet Noodle.

I tried to absorb the blob with one of my ink rollers. I have 5-6 but this one was closest.

Blobs are blobs and I don't think paper will make a difference in I was using CT when it blobbed.

The blotter worked less than I'd hoped on blobs. I suggest just letting the blob drying by it's self instead of using a blotter on a big fat blob.

Could be OK on a small blob....but I've not tried it on such.......in I'm not use to blobs. My Waterman 52's nor my Soennecken Wet Noodles don't blob......but I do use dry inks.

 

The Eyedropper should not have been towards empty in I'd just filled it...but I really have very little experience with ED's.

 

I tend to think now a roller blotter works just to 'dry' ink, not as a blob repair kit.

The pre-24 MB Safety Pen that was restored by Fountainble on the com.

[mtcn77]

I'm new to fountain pens, but blobs are %100 due to air leaks according to me.

 

Be sure to reseat, or do all sorts of things to the feed section, however don't dismiss using wet inks, too. You may check @InesF's wonderful ink wetness list, that is what I did.

 

There are dry inks and then there are wet inks. Dry inks may also come as saturated and look wide on the paper(my guess on it), while unsaturated wet inks may look narrower still. There is no guide to it apart from that list. If you want a drier experience, you may tone down the saturation, or go for a dry ink. Yet, I think they are inversely correlated - dry inks are more concentrated, thus wetter, but with 'less flow' surface tension if that makes any sense.

 

I'm going on this circumlocution because inks can blob for all sorts of reasons when flow seizes and restarts abruptly which you ultimately want to avoid. You want the least of it by keeping ink fluid in both the least viscous and surface tension ink you can find, unless you want constant repairs which I find shortens pen life.

[dipper]

Here is an amusing quote from Richard Binder: (Extract from his web page "Are modern pens as good as old ones". Link to the full page is at foot of this post after the quoted extract.)

 

"... Another reason is that we’re more fastidious today than our grandparents were half a century ago. We refuse to tolerate pens that might throw a blot if we happen to shake them a little bit. (Back in the day, people simply learned not to shake their pens.) The standardized feeds we see in modern pens are designed to resist that disagreeable tendency — even at the expense of writing reliability and ease. The result? We have pens that write dry, pens that start hard, pens that skip. And we put up with them because the alternative is to expose ourselves to — horror of horrors — the chance that we might end up as the charming but totally fabricated Waterman myth says Lewis Waterman did: losing a fat contract because his pen blotted on him at just the wrong moment...."

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/ttp/newpens.htm

 

Read in the the context of the entire ricardspens site, Mr Binder is clearly extolling the writing performance of older style pens that are in good mechanical order, properly adjusted, and free from air leaks. @BambinoFortunato , your three vintage pens seem to need a little healing work to meet that standard.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I've not been to Richard's site for a while.

Thanks for reminding me I should visit again.

 

The only pen I have that has blobbed on me is my pre '24 MB Safety Pen.

Perhaps I should try writing with my '30's Fendomatic Safety pen.

 

Lever pens have that reputation of being able to blot, but none of mine; my 52's with the slick feeds, or my other later Estie or Wearever sac pens normal buffered feeds, have blotted that I can remember.

...... If back in the day my late '50 early '60's lever pens blotted I don't distinctly remember; if they did, it was SOP, so no big thing. 

 

A fine poster bangs his nail pen nibs....I can remember doing sharp jabbing just short of the paper to get ink flow back in B&W TV days.....but we were Not Supposed to hit the paper with the nib!!!

 

I only have a few '30's pens, but most with no problems...and Most of the rest of my older pens are  German piston pens, so don't blot.

[sandy101]

Learn to love the blot - it is a badge of honour, like inky hands.

 

From my experience, these pens do not travel well. So the best way to avoid the blot us to use them as desk pens.

 

Temperature variation, shock, or Tuesdays will cause blocks.

 

Invest in blotting paper, and just keep the. In a pen box in a room that has a fairly constant temperature and you should be fine.

If you are writing something you don't want blots in, then use another pen. My journals and diaries are full of blots, spills and stains. It adds character.

[kestrel]

Try holding the capped pen in your nice, warm hand for a minute or two before writing.  While holding, make sure the nib is pointed up.  If you pick up the pen from its pen holder in a 75 degree F (24 degree C) room and start writing with the pen enclosed in your 95 degree F(35 degree C) hand the air in the sac will expand and burps are quite likely, especially with dropper fillers and/or pens with very simple feeds.

 

Nice Eagle pen you have there.

[BambinoFortunato]

Thanks, all! Yes the occasional blot on the paper is fine by me. I just don’t want it to be so much that while writing ink is flicking onto my clothes, bedding, keyboard, furniture, etc. so far Pelikan 4001 inks are working great in these vintage gushers. 
 

On the other hand, Herbin’s Poussiere de Lune is so wet that using it in the Onward pen last night meant a steady drip of ink like a leaky faucet. Maybe endless tinkering would eventually get this to work but I’m ok with accepting that it just doesn’t work with these pens. That’s fine. Some ink and pen combinations just don’t do it. While vintage pens may be often more temperamental, I think that’s true to some extent with pens of any era. I once had a bottle of Diamine Chocolate that was so wet it was flinging itself out of a new Pelikan M200 and made a massive mess. 
 

interestingly in both pens the drier inks aren’t producing a significantly thinner line while also not flooding the feed too much. I think Pelikan inks might be the sweet spot. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

1 hour ago, BambinoFortunato said:

Herbin’s Poussiere de Lune

I don't know the newer Herbin inks of the last 5-6 years, but the older long established ones, that I have/had 6-7. not that one, they were all dryish inks, giving good two toned shading.

 

I start wondering if your pens have the right size of rubber sac...say a 16 and not a 18 sized sac. a kinked sac could cause problems. I don't know if such would cause blobs and run away flooding, with what should be a dry/dryish ink.

IMO it might be worth sending your pens to a pro in your area.

[piano]

I make G nib eyedropper pens and can tell that Iroshizuku inks have no issues with ink blobs, if no crack. Herbin EOC does occasionally. I’ve been making DIY inks concoctions, and I feel blobs not appear when I add Schumincke oxgall. It’s alkali… I also put a bead in. 

I got the oxgall as it suspends color inks for a marbling. That all makes sense right??

 

Also, I suspect that coating a feeder with an anti fog spray could work for this. A Zeiss spray contains 3% alcohol so I might be wrong but this idea came from a part of Pilot’s patent. I haven’t tried it yet though.

 

Has anyone else experimented with this? 

[amberleadavis]

@BambinoFortunato I actually have powdered ink made by both Eagle and Gold Bond. I think you need to consider a super dry ink.   (off topic, I've considered drawing a comic of a blob chasing Inky).

[MarcoA63]

I have mostly vintage pens, eye droppers, lever fillers and piston fillers plus some other funky ones. they blot only if I shake them, which I try not to. Sac size and material is key here. Rubber sacs have to be the correct size, if not air can seep in from the 'nipple' and push ink out. Silicon sacs are permeable to air so you have to store the pen with nib upward otherwise the nib and cap get flooded.  

this is what I have learnt

HTH

[mtcn77]

Think about the alternatives. I wish my pen would blob. It wouldn't. Now it won't write with a full eyedropper fill.

It is ironic to have an eyedropper pen but not be able to fill it fully...

PS: apparently, being a noob, I forget to check the tines' position and assume they are centered on the ink channel. Turns out they are not and an easy fix thanks to @dneal! Hopefully, I will stop having issues with this pen in the future...