Pens with metal sections - weight & balance

[DvdRiet]

In response to @zwiron's question about pens (in my Diplomat collection) with metal sections, in the photo below are all of my pens (Diplomat or otherwise) that have a metal/brass section. (I put the Excellence A2 Brass Oxyd at the top for 'scale' but it has a plastic section.) The group does include two Diplomats: the modern Aero (Volute), which has a heavy aluminum section, and an older Balance from the mid/late 1990s, which has what I assume is a brass section. Two other pens I own have metal sections: a Ystudio white resin and a Waldmann Tuscany.

 

 

The Diplomat Aero Volute (left/top) is a relatively fat and heavy pen, but I do find it to be well-balanced. Some people do not like the distinct step-down between the barrel and the section, but I find that it's gradual enough to be comfortable. The older Balance (right/bottom), on the other hand, is slimmer pen closer in size to a Waterman or a Parker. The weight seems to be distributed quite evenly from end to end, but as a slimmer pen, it is not 'weighty'. 

 

An interesting pen in regard to metal sections is actually the Ystudio resin (2nd from left/top), in my opinion. Inside the resin barrel is a a brass tube that gives it weight that it doesn't look like it should have judging from it's exterior, but it is also not a 'heavy' pen. Holding it just now, the weight does seem to be distributed in the middle of the barrel. It is also one of my most reliable writers, despite being quite reasonably priced compared to some of my other pens (including the ones in this group).

 

And the final pen in this group is the Waldmann Tuscany (3rd from left/top). Despite it's relatively slim appearance, it is a heavy pen, being all silver. (That also makes it quite pricey, of course.) It is just plain heavy from end to end. I did personally find the abrupt step-down from the barrel to the grip to be too sharp at first, but a little careful polishing with a jewelry cloth took care of the worst of it and I have gotten much more used to it after using it a few times.

 

I will see if I can weigh them to see what the actual weight distribution is on each of them and post it later.

[DvdRiet]

I have no idea how any of these would compare to a Lamy Aion, but perhaps some of the other members have insights on that.

[DvdRiet]

Here are the measurements I just took with my kitchen scale (that's about as scientific as I can get ) 

 

Ystudio resin

capped 20gr

barrel 10gr

section 6gr

 

Diplomat Balance (mid-90s pen)

capped 29gr

barrel 12gr

section 5gr

 

Waldmann Tuscany

capped 37gr

barrel 14gr

section 6gr

(yes, the cap makes up the other 17gr!)

 

Aero Volute

capped 40.5gr

barrel 13gr

section 15gr

 

As you can see, only the Aero has a heavier section than the barrel. Interesting! 

The others seem to have sections that are approximately 50% of the weight of the barrel, but it's also interesting that it is the Ystudio where the section is slightly more than 50% of the barrel despite being relatively short. Presumably because most of the barrel is plastic, with just the brass inner tube to provide weight and balance.

[zwiron]

Hah, that was fast! And there's a lot to behold again, coming with plenty data. Me Slowboat, ½inching forward and aiming to earn me an Esterbrook Tortoise Penrest for prize. Many thanks though.

 

For a Lamy Aion the score heads the other way.
capped 32.5 gr
barrel 6.6 gr
section 14.5 gr

 

giving the section a near 220% lead on the barrel.
& bare writing weight with converter 23.4 gr
   bare writing length 13.7 cm incl. nib (Z53)

 

If this obvious? glaring? difference with other pens in the shop was subjected to much discussion a couple of years ago already, I didn't find out about it yet. Typical for a newbie on the forum. Just trailing along.
The question that pops up in my wake is whether this was done intentionally by the Aion model's designer, Jasper Morrison?
Then, once more, if many people noticed this "deflection" before and recognized it for designer ingeniousness?
Does it go appreciated?

 

I happen to like writing with an EF nib on the Aion, it's my best pen so far for that. And something alike to a benchmark industry standard probably doesn't exist in this realm. Hence this grandioso universe of pens and inks.

[DvdRiet]

That's an incredible difference in weight distribution! Does it have some sort of specific ergonomic concept behind it? I'm trying to imagine what that would be like to write with, having all the weight in the front 1/4 or 1/3 of the pen.

 

Or is it a very long section? (I haven't gone beyond a cursory internet search to see which Lamy pen it is.)

 

This was a tiny 'sample size' of course, but I was actually quite surprised as I was weighing my pens that the ratio of section weight to barrel weight was so consistent across the different brands and styles. With the Aero being a clear outlier, and in more ways than one, obviously.   It's not something I have ever thought about before, but I also notice that I am generally more concerned with length and girth than weight and pretty much assume that most pens are balanced enough for my usage needs.

[OldTravelingShoe]

I got into fountain pens primarily as a means to sketch, and I keep thinking about them in these terms. I hope my intuition is right... 

 

I would find the weight concentrated in the section a bit cumbersome, because, as I change the holding position at various points over the barrel, to get the angle I want for one or another of the strokes, I would experience changing weight.

 

As my fingers would get further away from the mass center near the nib, I would experience extra downward pressure on the pen (gravity plus lack of immediate control due to distance). For the opposite, as I move the hold closer to the nib, I would regain control. But balancing between the two would require quite a bit of dexterity and practice. 

 

The alternative, of equal weight or even more weight in the (end of) barrel, seems to me better for sketcand drawing. 

[Honeybadgers]

I only have one pen that does it, but combining metals can result in a great product - I have a karas kustoms limited edition starliner made for the apollo 11 anniversary - aluminum cap and barrel, with a solid brass section.

 

The balance is amazing, and the weight is really manageable. 

[zwiron]

@OldTravelingShoe ...  I do grok the arguments to your preference, and I might use fountainpens for drawing as well if I were any good at that. This "Big Splash" (as I've seen it coined) of new ink-colours that occurred over the past 15 years or so appears to elicit and inspire all manner of creative endeavours, that's fascinating stuff as well. And, to get my bearings on this subject, I had already become a regular visitor to Kelli McCown's mountainofink.com blog, as she pursues a nicely analytical and descriptive approach to sorting inks out and showing them.

 

Still I'll try to list a few (possible) pros to the weight shift towards the front downside of a/this pen in a next post. Since I can't yet find any conceptual reasoning or justifying explanation for it online.

[txomsy]

I may be ham fisted, or maybe so many years using metal pens has made me adapt. Any way, I have never noticed any balance problem with either the MB Noblesse, Slimline, the Kaweco Sport (AL or brass), or the Liliput (copper), nor the Delike Alpha and much less, the Kuretake brush pens. In my opinion, a well-designed pen should have no problem. I do also use them for sketching. Then, all these are all metal, so maybe that explains the balance.

[OldTravelingShoe]

9 hours ago, zwiron said:

to get my bearings on this subject, I had already become a regular visitor to Kelli McCown's mountainofink.com blog

Hehe, we have also this in common. 

[OldTravelingShoe]

7 hours ago, txomsy said:

maybe so many years using metal pens has made me adapt

This, but also I'm just at the start of the journey into fountain pens and even art-making 😃

[mtcn77]

Hi, I want to endorse the metal section choice. I find it funky if the section is made concave(I don't enjoy thin sections), but I have nothing against cigar shaped sections. In fact, the weight balance becomes tip favoured which really reduces the cramping on my hand.

 

Don't just look at the weight of a pen, it is inertia on an axis, a.k.a a vector. The distance from your 3 finger grip forms a force moment. Even the lightest pens can be really tiring, provided they are back heavy. Go for it and make the best of your pen.

 

PS: about the barrel length - I think there is no single comparison of section to barrel weight distribution for everybody since everyone has a different hand size, making a difference to where the barrel rests on the hand cuffbox. Bigger hands might have further back palm rest with a pen and smaller hands not much different, making front bias more or less significant.

[zwiron]

@mtcn77
Er..hmm   Close reading, kinda digging it.
Radius variance of circular motion around an average axis, in relation to an (almost) inert point on it; is that about what you mean?
[Related to camera motion I thought that's called banking, but I'm not so sure now. Twirling is a better fit.]
And most of the mass flying around should be about centered near this still point? Resulting force-vectors would go small.

 

[OldTravelingShoe]

6 hours ago, zwiron said:

most of the mass flying around should be about centered near this still point? Resulting force-vectors would go small.

This is also how I read it, @zwiron. And the "still point" is defined in practice by where you hold the pen, in @mtcn77's terms "3 finger grip".

 

The most common grip is (I believe) relatively close to the nib, but even this seems to vary with the person.

 

The grip also changes for the same person. For example, while drawing, I tend to move the grip up and down the pen, to get a better angle for the nib, to use different moves of the arm or hand so I can better express myself, etc. 

 

So I see why it's challenging to build a pen with good weight distribution for everyone. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by OldTravelingShoe
Corrected typos.

[mtcn77]

6 hours ago, zwiron said:

And most of the mass flying around should be about centered near this still point? Resulting force-vectors would go small.

Hi, the issue seems to be that there is a force and that makes the pen feel more unwieldy than it is.

Suppose your 3 finger grip is 3 units away from your cuffbox, the barrel rest on your palm. If the pen's moment of inertia is 2 units away, it might seem like you are gaining 50% leverage; however where you hold the pen and the pen's mass center and the barrel rest are 3 different points on a seesaw dingling and dangling while you wrestle with the pen trying to push it into the barrel - which is 3 units away - while your 3 finger grip is 1 unit away from the moment of inertia, giving you only a third of what your fingers allow... I feel tired just by explaining it!

[zwiron]

@mtcn77 ... Oi! But anyway, wearing oneself out is the purpose of mansplaining things, no? And clarifying enough, over a good night's sleep. So thanks..!

[Tseg]

Early on in my "collecting", my TWSBI 580 turned me off from metal sections.  They are cold and slippery.   On the flip-side, I do find my Brass Sport Kaweco with 14K nib tolerable.  So maybe type of metal plays a role?  With that said, I've had a love/hate relationship with my Lamy 2000... a pen I currently love with an EF nib, after 2 prior nibs destroyed because the pen slipped through my hands.  I'm not particularly fond of that metal section fit and feel, but it sure makes the pen look awesome.

[mtcn77]

1 hour ago, Tseg said:

On the flip-side, I do find my Brass Sport Kaweco with 14K nib tolerable.

My main gripes with Kaweco non-premium steel nibs in general is that they are really cool, but not gratifying enough to write with.

I like nails better, granted they are a challenge to control, but they don't flex as much sparing me the headache of worrying about damaging them. They also are cleaner - one dip in the bottle and they are fresh as new. Mine tended to stop writing in long sessions which I found disappointing. I still love the pen, but no more nib investments for me...

[AmandaW]

On 2/18/2022 at 4:23 PM, DvdRiet said:

That's an incredible difference in weight distribution! Does it have some sort of specific ergonomic concept behind it? I'm trying to imagine what that would be like to write with, having all the weight in the front 1/4 or 1/3 of the pen.

 

Or is it a very long section?

 

I love mine and find the weight to the front helpful in maintaining a light grip and letting the pen write mostly under it's own weight. On the days when the arthritis in my hands is annoying it's my favourite pen!

 

I would have said I don't like metal sections or metal pens at all really. I bought it on impulse because it was secondhand in great condition, no one was bidding and I loved the colour.

 

And with the balance: if it's posted the balance point is pretty much at the centre.

[zwiron]

In a while I'll want to complete the experiment that I thought up, and order another specimen of the pen that I'm on about at thread start, the Lamy aion. Black this time around, and shop-fitted with a gold/black Z57 nib that belongs with the Imporium model.
Reviews on Fontoplumo in Delft NL suggest they're good at this service and tuning too, so that's where I'll probably go.
As it's already a favorite pen, I'm hoping this luxury nib will give me an experience that's this small but noticeable notch smoother and springier than it is with the standard nibs.
Before even buying the first one I had eyed this exploration chart on Lamy EF nibs that I recall was made by @A Smug Dill. Trusting that it's all right to retweet that image here:

 

 

Now although I'm sort of taken with the wet line apparel of the example that the 2000 model sets in this picture, I'm also reading that, in order to keep seeing some line variation coming out of a softer nib, the inkflow to it should certainly not be too generous.
Would more experienced fp-users agree with that?

 

[Retrieving the bookmark, in fact the bodytext of that Dill's comparison post already confirms this notion. I don't really expect that any tuning would be necessary, and if only a short check can suffice to ensure that everything works as it should, I'd be happy to spare myself the extra expense.]