EF Pilot Metropolitan?

[IanP2303]

I am fond of finer nibs since it compliments my handwriting, I learnt that Japanese nibs are a grade finer than western and European standards. The pilot metropolitan is a critically acclaimed pen and I am planning to buy it, but I want an EF nib. The Pilot penmanship or some other pen has nibs interchangeable with the metropolitan. I want to ask whether some of you or maybe someone you know has this combination. I also want to know whether the EF is really a grade finer than western EF. Thanks!

[A Smug Dill]

Check out what @LizEF uses for her EFNIR series.

[LizEF]

• 1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

Check out what @LizEF uses for her EFNIR series.

 

2 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

I also want to know whether the EF is really a grade finer than western EF.

Technically, this will depend on the exact western nib we're talking about (not just the "model" but the single instantiation of that model), nevertheless, it is at least a grade finer than every western EF I've experienced.  (It's at least a couple grades finer than my particular Lamy EF nib. )  See my next reply for images and comments regarding line-width comparisons.

 

2 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

The Pilot penmanship or some other pen has nibs interchangeable with the metropolitan. I want to ask whether some of you or maybe someone you know has this combination.

Short answer: works fine, I recommend keeping nib and feed together (even though I suspect it doesn't really matter).

 

The following (currently in production) Pilot pens can all swap nibs and feeds (there may be others, particularly if only available outside the US) that I don't know about:

• Metropolitan
• Explorer
• Kakuno
• Penmanship
• Plumix
• Pluminix
• Prera

I started my reviews using the Penmanship, got tired of the triangular grip and swapped its nib and feed into the Metropolitan, got tired of the weight and narrow grip, and swapped the nib and feed into the Prera where it has lived ever since (far longer than it spent in either of the previous pens).  I expect it to remain in the Prera for as long as I do these EF nib ink reviews.

 

PS: The nibs from the Wing Sung 659 (comes with EF and F sections) will fit the above Pilot pens, but please note that the feed is not interchangeable (at least at present).  Trying to force the feed into a Pilot section will crack that section!  But the nibs fit on both the larger-diameter Wing Sung feed and the smaller-diameter Pilot feed.

 

For anyone who has different experience, the description on the eBay listing for the converter said that it was redesigned to remove the rivet.  Since there were previous reports that this converter could be used in some Pilot pens (it was nearly identical to the CON-50, just longer), and since the the inner-diameter of the converter at the feed-end of my rivet-free version is too large for Pilot pens, I have to assume that when they removed the rivet, they also widened the inner diameter of the converter (and the diameter of their feed).  Now, the outer diameter is identical to the CON-50, but the inner diameter is larger, and this converter is too loose to seal in a Pilot pen.

 

It's probable there are other Chinese pens that use this nib design, but this is the only one I know of personally.

[A Smug Dill]

4 minutes ago, LizEF said:

nevertheless, it is at least a grade finer than every western EF I've experienced.

 

Alas, you haven't tried the JoWo-made steel EF nib on my Edison Collier, or the steel EF nib on my Rotring 400.

[LizEF]

2 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

I also want to know whether the EF is really a grade finer than western EF.

 

In the following images (my 2018 ink log), these are the nib sizes of the pens involved, where the nib size isn't in the log (feel free to ask if you have other questions):

• Stormtrooper VP, F
• TWSBI Eco, EF
• Platinum 3776, SF
• Waterman Laureat, F
• Karas Kustoms Fountain K Mini, EF
• Blue VP, F
• Sailor PGS, F
• Pilot Falcon, SEF
• Pilot Stargazer, F
• Pilot Metropolitan, F
• Wing Sung 601, F (or so they claim, but not all their Fs are the same)

 

 

[LizEF]

1 minute ago, A Smug Dill said:

Alas, you haven't tried the JoWo-made steel EF nib on my Edison Collier, or the steel EF nib on my Rotring 400.

This is true.  And I should have said stock nibs, since nibs can obviously be ground finer.  Further, based on the line width from my Sheaffer Icon, F, I would say that if Sheaffer make EF nibs, they are nearly or as fine as a Japanese EF nib.

 

There are exceptions to every rule (except this rule, because if there were exceptions to this rule, then there wouldn't be exceptions to every rule, which seems like an exception to this rule, making this rule untrue, and I'm very confused right now, so I think I'll go make breakfast......).

[InkyColors]

Pilot Kaküno comes in extra fine, but I have no way to compare it to a "Western Fine."  It's an inexpensive pen.  I purchased mine to use on paper that is not very fountain pen friendly, and it does work better on this paper than the Metropolitan Fine.

[IanP2303]

8 hours ago, LizEF said:

 

Technically, this will depend on the exact western nib we're talking about (not just the "model" but the single instantiation of that model), nevertheless, it is at least a grade finer than every western EF I've experienced.  (It's at least a couple grades finer than my particular Lamy EF nib. )  See my next reply for images and comments regarding line-width comparisons.

 

Short answer: works fine, I recommend keeping nib and feed together (even though I suspect it doesn't really matter).

 

The following (currently in production) Pilot pens can all swap nibs and feeds (there may be others, particularly if only available outside the US) that I don't know about:

• Metropolitan
• Explorer
• Kakuno
• Penmanship
• Plumix
• Pluminix
• Prera

I started my reviews using the Penmanship, got tired of the triangular grip and swapped its nib and feed into the Metropolitan, got tired of the weight and narrow grip, and swapped the nib and feed into the Prera where it has lived ever since (far longer than it spent in either of the previous pens).  I expect it to remain in the Prera for as long as I do these EF nib ink reviews.

 

PS: The nibs from the Wing Sung 659 (comes with EF and F sections) will fit the above Pilot pens, but please note that the feed is not interchangeable (at least at present).  Trying to force the feed into a Pilot section will crack that section!  But the nibs fit on both the larger-diameter Wing Sung feed and the smaller-diameter Pilot feed.

 

For anyone who has different experience, the description on the eBay listing for the converter said that it was redesigned to remove the rivet.  Since there were previous reports that this converter could be used in some Pilot pens (it was nearly identical to the CON-50, just longer), and since the the inner-diameter of the converter at the feed-end of my rivet-free version is too large for Pilot pens, I have to assume that when they removed the rivet, they also widened the inner diameter of the converter (and the diameter of their feed).  Now, the outer diameter is identical to the CON-50, but the inner diameter is larger, and this converter is too loose to seal in a Pilot pen.

 

It's probable there are other Chinese pens that use this nib design, but this is the only one I know of personally.

Thanks @LizEF, it is very informative. I would love to see that EF Prera of yours, do you mind showing me a writing sample? I would love to hear more about what you think of the Metropolitan. I am not really interested in using a Wing Sung nib, but thank you for telling me that it is interchangeable.

 

Thanks,

Ian 

[IanP2303]

5 hours ago, InkyColors said:

Pilot Kaküno comes in extra fine, but I have no way to compare it to a "Western Fine."  It's an inexpensive pen.  I purchased mine to use on paper that is not very fountain pen friendly, and it does work better on this paper than the Metropolitan Fine.

I thought about using a Kakuno as well, can you compare the Pilot Metropolitan to the kakuno, I am still deciding which one to buy, and whether the Kakuno's EF is finer than the Metropolitan Fine.

 

Thanks, 

Ian 

[IanP2303]

9 hours ago, LizEF said:

 

Technically, this will depend on the exact western nib we're talking about (not just the "model" but the single instantiation of that model), nevertheless, it is at least a grade finer than every western EF I've experienced.  (It's at least a couple grades finer than my particular Lamy EF nib. )  See my next reply for images and comments regarding line-width comparisons.

 

Short answer: works fine, I recommend keeping nib and feed together (even though I suspect it doesn't really matter).

 

The following (currently in production) Pilot pens can all swap nibs and feeds (there may be others, particularly if only available outside the US) that I don't know about:

• Metropolitan
• Explorer
• Kakuno
• Penmanship
• Plumix
• Pluminix
• Prera

I started my reviews using the Penmanship, got tired of the triangular grip and swapped its nib and feed into the Metropolitan, got tired of the weight and narrow grip, and swapped the nib and feed into the Prera where it has lived ever since (far longer than it spent in either of the previous pens).  I expect it to remain in the Prera for as long as I do these EF nib ink reviews.

 

PS: The nibs from the Wing Sung 659 (comes with EF and F sections) will fit the above Pilot pens, but please note that the feed is not interchangeable (at least at present).  Trying to force the feed into a Pilot section will crack that section!  But the nibs fit on both the larger-diameter Wing Sung feed and the smaller-diameter Pilot feed.

 

For anyone who has different experience, the description on the eBay listing for the converter said that it was redesigned to remove the rivet.  Since there were previous reports that this converter could be used in some Pilot pens (it was nearly identical to the CON-50, just longer), and since the the inner-diameter of the converter at the feed-end of my rivet-free version is too large for Pilot pens, I have to assume that when they removed the rivet, they also widened the inner diameter of the converter (and the diameter of their feed).  Now, the outer diameter is identical to the CON-50, but the inner diameter is larger, and this converter is too loose to seal in a Pilot pen.

 

It's probable there are other Chinese pens that use this nib design, but this is the only one I know of personally.

I bought a Lamy-Al star EF and the nib is as fine as a Lamy fine and way thicker than my Safari. Really disappointed...

 

Thanks,

Ian

[A Smug Dill]

17 minutes ago, IanP2303 said:

I would love to see that EF Prera of yours, do you mind showing me a writing sample?

 

10 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Check out what @LizEF uses for her EFNIR series.

 

9 hours ago, LizEF said:

I expect it to remain in the Prera for as long as I do these EF nib ink reviews.

 

[LizEF]

51 minutes ago, IanP2303 said:

Thanks @LizEF, it is very informative. I would love to see that EF Prera of yours, do you mind showing me a writing sample? I would love to hear more about what you think of the Metropolitan. I am not really interested in using a Wing Sung nib, but thank you for telling me that it is interchangeable.

You're welcome.  If you go to my profile and look at the topics I've posted, or just search the forum for EFNIR (which is in the title of my reviews), you'll find them (I post at least one per week).  They include a video wherein I write with the Prera (unless you get an older one, in which case, you'll see the Penmanship or Metropolitan).

 

Note that the EF Prera is the same as the EF Penmanship in the ink log images I posted earlier.

 

As for what I think of the Metropolitan...  I have the White Tiger version (came with a fine nib).  It's beautiful.  It has a bit of weight to it, and a section that tapers to a fairly narrow diameter.  I liked it a lot until I started doing reviews with it, and then the extensive use revealed that it just wasn't that comfortable for me for longer use.  I wasn't quite sure what would be more comfortable, since I had both lighter and heavier pens, but decided to try the Prera and have found that an extremely comfortable pen for me - wider grip diameter, shorter, lighter weight (you can see all the specs on JetPens.com).  Still, the Metro is well-made (I've found that to be true of all the Pilot pens except maybe the Penmanship, which is well made for the price), and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who likes the look.

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, IanP2303 said:

I thought about using a Kakuno as well, can you compare the Pilot Metropolitan to the kakuno, I am still deciding which one to buy, and whether the Kakuno's EF is finer than the Metropolitan Fine.

As I mentioned, the Kakuno and Metropolitan take the same nib (just engraved differently), therefore, the Kakuno EF is finer than the Metropolitan F (which is the same as a Kakuno F, so it's like saying the Kakuno extra fine is finer than the Kakuno fine).

 

As for comparing them, the Kakuno is much cheaper, is lighter weight, has no clip, has a slight triangular pattern at the end of the grip, and includes the irresistible smiley face on the nib.  

[InkyColors]

1 hour ago, IanP2303 said:

I thought about using a Kakuno as well, can you compare the Pilot Metropolitan to the kakuno, I am still deciding which one to buy, and whether the Kakuno's EF is finer than the Metropolitan Fine.

 

Thanks, 

Ian 

Excuse the poor lighting.  Here is a comparison of the nib sizes.  I included a medium also.  I switch my nibs back and forth between the Kaküno and Metropolitan pens.  This ink is pretty wet, so it may make the lines look broader.  That is why I wrote each with the same brand ink.

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, IanP2303 said:

I bought a Lamy-Al star EF and the nib is as fine as a Lamy fine and way thicker than my Safari. Really disappointed...

Yes, Lamy are famous for this.

[LizEF]

56 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

 

 

This might actually be a use case for the rare occasion when a "like" button would be useful.

[IanP2303]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

You're welcome.  If you go to my profile and look at the topics I've posted, or just search the forum for EFNIR (which is in the title of my reviews), you'll find them (I post at least one per week).  They include a video wherein I write with the Prera (unless you get an older one, in which case, you'll see the Penmanship or Metropolitan).

 

Note that the EF Prera is the same as the EF Penmanship in the ink log images I posted earlier.

 

As for what I think of the Metropolitan...  I have the White Tiger version (came with a fine nib).  It's beautiful.  It has a bit of weight to it, and a section that tapers to a fairly narrow diameter.  I liked it a lot until I started doing reviews with it, and then the extensive use revealed that it just wasn't that comfortable for me for longer use.  I wasn't quite sure what would be more comfortable, since I had both lighter and heavier pens, but decided to try the Prera and have found that an extremely comfortable pen for me - wider grip diameter, shorter, lighter weight (you can see all the specs on JetPens.com).  Still, the Metro is well-made (I've found that to be true of all the Pilot pens except maybe the Penmanship, which is well made for the price), and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who likes the look.

I have tried the Prera before in a fountain pen gallery/shop. The Prera is significantly smaller than the Metropolitan, the one I tried is Prera Sky Blue, an extraordinary pen, smooth nib, lightweight body and beautiful colours. I haven't tried the Metropolitan yet, but the classy look is one of the reasons I am considering this pen. Thanks a lot for the reply, I look it up on JetPens.

[IanP2303]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

As I mentioned, the Kakuno and Metropolitan take the same nib (just engraved differently), therefore, the Kakuno EF is finer than the Metropolitan F (which is the same as a Kakuno F, so it's like saying the Kakuno extra fine is finer than the Kakuno fine).

 

As for comparing them, the Kakuno is much cheaper, is lighter weight, has no clip, has a slight triangular pattern at the end of the grip, and includes the irresistible smiley face on the nib.  

Oh, I understand, but I would like to see how fine is EF compared to F, whether the difference is insignificant like Lamy EF and F. 

[IanP2303]

2 hours ago, InkyColors said:

Excuse the poor lighting.  Here is a comparison of the nib sizes.  I included a medium also.  I switch my nibs back and forth between the Kaküno and Metropolitan pens.  This ink is pretty wet, so it may make the lines look broader.  That is why I wrote each with the same brand ink.

My gratitude knows no bounds, the nib sizes are significant. Beautiful black ink by the way, my Parker Quink Black Ink's colour isn't as strong at times, it looks like a grey ink occasionally.

[IanP2303]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

Yes, Lamy are famous for this.

Ah, but I love their designs, affordable(some) and elegant.