Diplomat discounts on Zalando Lounge

[OldTravelingShoe]

Zalando Lounge (ZL), NL and DE, seem to be running a campaign with large discounts (-65% to -80%) on Diplomat fountain pens (and other writing instruments, of which we shall not speak). The campaign runs for 4 more days, so until and including Thu, Feb 17, 2022, end of day CET-timezone.

 

Disclaimer 1: This is my first post in FPN's Market Watch. I also never bought pens before on ZL, but my better half found the Diplomats and asked me to have a look. I ordered several, but please assess your own tolerance to risk.

 

Disclaimer 2: I am not versed on Diplomat fountain pens enough to tell if the ZL naming scheme is simply bad or if it's a previous generation of pens than what is now listed on the Diplomat website. For example, the Diplomat Excellence A2 Rome Black White (265€) seems to be listed on ZL as EXCELLENCE A - Vulpen - wit (97€ from an original price of 265€). The photos match. "Vulpen" means "fountain pen" and "wit" means "white" in the Dutch language (de Nederlandse Taal). 

 

Disclaimer 3, just for this first post about buying pens: I've nothing to do with any of the companies or brands mentioned in this post.

 

[DvdRiet]

Some of the items appear to be old stock, if my research/knowledge of Diplomat collections is correct. (Given the severe lack of general information out there, I could easily be wrong, of course.) The Excellence is particularly difficult to figure out without detailed information on sizes, etc. The offering used to be A (larger) and B (smaller), then the A+ was added (larger w/ screw-on cap) and at some point, the A and the B were both discontinued and the A2 was introduced (not sure if it's smaller or somewhere between the A and B in size). You follow? lol 

 

Clearly, this makes it nearly impossible to know *exactly* what you are buying if the seller has older stock and/or doesn't bother to differentiate between A/B/A+/A2. Also, I should probably mention that, from what I read in the review blogs, the A+ was added to the line-up because there were occasional issues with the caps at the time. I also think it was partly to appeal to the many people who prefer screw-on caps.

[OldTravelingShoe]

47 minutes ago, DvdRiet said:

Clearly, this makes it nearly impossible to know *exactly* what you are buying if the seller has older stock and/or doesn't bother to differentiate between A/B/A+/A2

Interesting. Is there a place where I could check the sizes for all these different versions? 

 

Zalando Lounge apparently allows returns (don't quote me on this), so to me it seems like one could order, check upon arrival against trustworthy measurements, then decide what to send back if anything at all. 

[DvdRiet]

1 minute ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Interesting. Is there a place where I could check the sizes for all these different versions? 

 

Zalando Lounge apparently allows returns (don't quote me on this), so to me it seems like one could order, check upon arrival against trustworthy measurements, then decide what to send back if anything at all. 

 

I just signed up for the first time, so I was checking the return policy and it says 31 days. Unfortunately, Diplomat does not give the exact measurements on their website, but I know Cult Pens is very good about giving all the measurements. And there was one other US site that had very detailed specifications, but I can't remember which one that was. If I find it again, I'll post it.

[DvdRiet]

I forgot that I had an old catalogue saved from 2016, when the A+ was introduced. So, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak:

 

Excellence A / A+*
  length 138mm
  diameter 13.5mm

  weight 41g

 

Excellence B

   length 136mm

   diameter 12mm

   weight 32g

 

*Presumably. The Excellence A+ was introduced as 'an extension of the Excellence A series' so I assume it had the same measurements (they were not specifically stated in the catalogue and I don't have one to measure).

 

 

The Excellence A2 came later, but Cult Pens lists the measurements as below (which match my own measurements of length and diameter):

 

Excellence A2

  length 138mm

  diameter 13mm

  weight 40g

[OldTravelingShoe]

1 hour ago, DvdRiet said:

I forgot that I had an old catalogue saved from 2016, when the A+ was introduced. So, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak:

 

Excellence A / A+*
  length 138mm
  diameter 13.5mm

  weight 41g

 

Excellence B

   length 136mm

   diameter 12mm

   weight 32g

 

*Presumably. The Excellence A+ was introduced as 'an extension of the Excellence A series' so I assume it had the same measurements (they were not specifically stated in the catalogue and I don't have one to measure).

 

 

The Excellence A2 came later, but Cult Pens lists the measurements as below (which match my own measurements of length and diameter):

 

Excellence A2

  length 138mm

  diameter 13mm

  weight 40g

 

@DvdRiet, many thanks, this is very useful indeed. Judging by the dearth of information online, especially on the official Diplomat writing-ware website, others may want to have a look. (I also found on FPN this review by @punjabi, with detailed measures for the A2 that second those presented here; thank you!)

 

As for me: Looks like I'll have to measure the diameter primarily, because the lengths are very similar. In addition, I took note that:

1. Vs. the Diplomat Excellence A, the Diplomat Excellence A+ has a spring-loaded clip [Source: Excellence A review on FPN by @Jamerelbe, @DvdRiet, and the Official Diplomat page for A+]
2. Vs. the Diplomat Excellence A, The Diplomat Excellence A+ has a fast screw-on cap [Source: @DvdRiet and the Official Diplomat page for A+ - "only 1/3 turns"] 
3. The Diplomat Excellence A2 also has a spring-loaded clip. "The excellence A² is now equipped with full metal spring-loaded clip preventing the deformation of the clip, making it easier to hold the pen to a pocket or a folder." [Source: Official Diplomat page for A2]
4. The Diplomat Excellence A2 also has a snap cap [Source: Official Diplomat page for A2] 
5. The full range of steel nibs, so F, M, and B, exists for A, A+, and A2. So this does not offer a good way to distinguish between versions.
6. Some of the versions are limited edition, so at least we know they can only be one or another of the versions. For example, the Diplomat Aero Volute seems to have been introduced in 2019; reviews by  @GourmetPens and @StephenBrown are from Aug 2019 and Dec 2019, respectively.

A question for FPN citizens: Does anyone have a catalogue that includes the Diplomat Excellence A2s?

 

[DvdRiet]

I had a better look around at the offerings (without the clock ticking on the stuff I had in my cart  ) and my best guess - don't hold me to this! - is that most of the Excellence listings are the more recent A2s with a couple of A+ pens sprinkled in for good measure, plus a small selection of the discontinued Bs. I understand the smaller Bs are still sought-after, by the way. I don't think there are any of the old A models on there, but one would have to be able to verify the sizes to be sure.

 

The measurements don't seem to be entirely reliable, but the original retailer suggested prices look like they might be better clues. The 190/195 euro pens match what an A2 normally costs on the Diplomat website. There was also a blue Skyline (guilloche under blue lacquer) still available on there when I was looking that is a steal at something like 80 euros (original price is 220)! There are a couple of other fps in black and silver listed with original prices of 210 or 220 that I think are probably the A+, which I believe has always been much more limited in color availability. But there was also still a black and white checkerboard, which I also think is surely the A+ Rome because of the original price of 265.

 

There were still quite a few regular presumably A2 pens, some Aeros and a couple of Esteems not yet sold out. Most of the best stuff, like the limited edition Aero Volute, is already sold out of course. But that blue Skyline A2 and the A+ Rome are definitely two of the more iconic finishes. And there were one or two A2s left in the classic Marrakesh and Evergreen colors. 

[DvdRiet]

Oh, and Travellers and Magnums, too. Also excellent, lower priced pens!

[OldTravelingShoe]

@DvdRiet, many thanks for this analysis! They've done quite a bit of nice design at Diplomat. I'll have to try to understand how I feel about their writing instruments, but their pens look very good (and, without large discounts, too expensive for my liking.) 

 

Heh, I think we will need to leave some of these pens for the other FPNers... ✒️

[DvdRiet]

You can see why my collection is a little low on the current pen side! I can't afford to be buying those every week. But I've been having loads of fun hunting down vintage ones and the older pens from the 80s, 90s and 2000s. (I have given myself permission to skip the Zepp at nearly 1400 euros... or at least save it until there are no more pens to buy, haha)

 

I started collecting Diplomats because I loved the quality of a couple of new pens I bought and then I happened across a beautiful one from the 50s while hunting for interesting vintage pens. From then on, I was hooked!  But honestly, I don't think Diplomat gets enough credit for the innovative things they do with the different finishes on their pens. From what I understand, they have been experimenting in recent years with the same kinds of innovative finishes that are used in the high-tech automotive industry. Like the MadC versions of the Esteem that are hydrodipped to put bits of her artwork on them and each pen is therefore different. I believe Diplomat (and possibly fountain pens in general) went out of fashion and were a bit forgotten when they were owned by Herlitz and subsequently Helit. Or at least their fine-writing pens were. Herlitz is, of course, a completely different market. I'm curious to see whether the newest owners will start bringing more interesting stuff (and not just a 1400 euro pen), especially with this year being the company's 100th anniversary.

[OldTravelingShoe]

Interesting history. I knew very little of it, but I was wondering what the company produced earlier, closer to their start (was it 1922?)

 

Thanks for sharing! 

 

P.S.: fwiw, my excuse for not wanting to buy expensive pens is that I couldn't possibly justify the extra cost in terms of what kind of drawings I could do with them. After all, I got into fountain pens with the thought of getting good instruments for drawing, sketching, and painting, and I intend to remain within a defendable range near this goal. 

[DvdRiet]

9 minutes ago, OldTravelingShoe said:

Interesting history. I knew very little of it, but I was wondering what the company produced earlier, closer to their start (was it 1922?)

 

Thanks for sharing! 

 

P.S.: fwiw, my excuse for not wanting to buy expensive pens is that I couldn't possibly justify the extra cost in terms of what kind of drawings I could do with them. After all, I got into fountain pens with the thought of getting good instruments for drawing, sketching, and painting, and I intend to remain within a defendable range near this goal. 

 

Unfortunately, there's not much history to be found on the internet. Or at least not that I have come across. According to most reports, the company records were lost when the company was moved and changed hands several times after the (second) owner died suddenly. I have also read that the company was a one-man pen-turning shop in the beginning and the pens were not branded until much later. I would love to find some very early pens, but I'm afraid the 1950s, possibly late 1940s, is probably as far back as it goes. And just figuring out what models were sold - and especially what they were called - even as late as the 60s and 70s is still a big challenge. Everything I have been able to find out has been literally cobbled together from all sorts of sources!

 

And to your postscript point: I guess that means you'll be chasing the nibs rather than the pens - that's also fun hunting!

[zwiron]

Late last year when I'd got the notion that EF nibs are best written on a slightly heavier pen, I went through a phase of coveting a goldnibbed Excellence A2. Although I came to postpone that purchase in favour of another, less expensive experiment – as yet to finish/pay for – I tried to research its specs, and hit on the @punjabi (+ inkpenlover blog) review data as linked to by OldTravelingShoe. That's probably the most extensive listing you'll find on the model.

The best info that I found on the company's current ownership and manufacturing practice came by these links:
http://www.bossticker.de/news/default.asp?nws_item=41433&i_item=41433&nws_step=2&nws_start=1

 

https://www.saechsische.de/plus/das-comeback-der-diplomat-fuellfederhalter-5122900.html

 

The latter report comes with a few photographs and a short company history.
Though surely there must be many more, albora-pens.de in Rietberg (NRW) near Paderborn and penoblo.de in Herrenberg (BW – Stuttgart/Tübingen area) appear reliable webshops carrying Diplomat pens at a "doable" price level.

[OldTravelingShoe]

5 hours ago, zwiron said:

The latter report comes with a few photographs and a short company history.
Though surely there must be many more, albora-pens.de in Rietberg (NRW) near Paderborn and penoblo.de in Herrenberg (BW – Stuttgart/Tübingen area) appear reliable webshops carrying Diplomat pens at a "doable" price level.

Many thanks for this update, @zwiron. I surely did not know any of this, both about these sources on the history of Diplomat and the shops, but I find it even more important that this information will stay put together and make it much easier for others to discover.

 

[DvdRiet]

7 hours ago, zwiron said:

Late last year when I'd got the notion that EF nibs are best written on a slightly heavier pen, I went through a phase of coveting a goldnibbed Excellence A2. Although I came to postpone that purchase in favour of another, less expensive experiment – as yet to finish/pay for – I tried to research its specs, and hit on the @punjabi (+ inkpenlover blog) review data as linked to by OldTravelingShoe. That's probably the most extensive listing you'll find on the model.

The best info that I found on the company's current ownership and manufacturing practice came by these links:
http://www.bossticker.de/news/default.asp?nws_item=41433&i_item=41433&nws_step=2&nws_start=1

 

https://www.saechsische.de/plus/das-comeback-der-diplomat-fuellfederhalter-5122900.html

 

The latter report comes with a few photographs and a short company history.
Though surely there must be many more, albora-pens.de in Rietberg (NRW) near Paderborn and penoblo.de in Herrenberg (BW – Stuttgart/Tübingen area) appear reliable webshops carrying Diplomat pens at a "doable" price level.

 

Thanks for these links! Adding them to my research files  

[DvdRiet]

If you are still looking and/or open to suggestions, @zwiron, you could also try looking for some of the older 'Classic / Classic Collection' models. And with or without gold nibs, because in all honesty, the steel nibs are so good that you hardly notice the difference (except in the price). I don't know where you are located, but I have found the German sites and fora to be both the best and the cheapest. And luckily for me, postage to NL is relatively inexpensive. It may take a little longer to find exactly what you're looking for, but the prices might be worth it for you.

 

Here are some of the past models from my collection so you can see how they compare to the A2:

 

From left to right: a 1980s Classic, the ca. 1990s Classic Collection large (Herren?) size and medium or 'ladies' size, 2000s Classic Collection 'Lord' and 'Lady', the current A2 in Oxyd Brass (purchased late 2020). 

 

The Herren (?) size and the Lord are quite large and weighty, but not uncomfortably so. Even for me, as I do have larger hands than a lot of women. The medium or 'lady' sizes are closer to an average pen size, so none of these are small pens.

[OldTravelingShoe]

2 minutes ago, DvdRiet said:

Here are some of the past models from my collection so you can see how they compare to the A2:

 

From left to right: a 1980s Classic, the ca. 1990s Classic Collection large (Herren?) size and medium or 'ladies' size, 2000s Classic Collection 'Lord' and 'Lady', the current A2 in Oxyd Brass (purchased late 2020). 

Thank you for sharing this. I like very much these visuals, a glimpse into four decades of design and evolution of thought. 

[zwiron]

@DvdRiet ... Thanks for the comparison photo. I'm not really into acquisition attempts of vintagy models by any brand yet, and just occasionally scouring catawiki auctions for awe and fun.
Still I'm curious whether you have encountered pens with a section made of metal/brass in your Diplomat flock? The reason for asking is: I'm taking notice of a pen's balance now.

 

[And the odd thing about the modern design/aluminium Lamy Aion that I like so well for its length/weight combo is: the section part outweighs the longer barrel part by almost 8 gr. Not posting caps, I'm still trying to assess if that "aspect" is a boon to its writing properties.]

[DvdRiet]

1 hour ago, zwiron said:

@DvdRiet ... Thanks for the comparison photo. I'm not really into acquisition attempts of vintagy models by any brand yet, and just occasionally scouring catawiki auctions for awe and fun.
Still I'm curious whether you have encountered pens with a section made of metal/brass in your Diplomat flock? The reason for asking is: I'm taking notice of a pen's balance now.

 

[And the odd thing about the modern design/aluminium Lamy Aion that I like so well for its length/weight combo is: the section part outweighs the longer barrel part by almost 8 gr. Not posting caps, I'm still trying to assess if that "aspect" is a boon to its writing properties.]

 

Hi @zwiron, I started a new thread with photos of my pens with metal sections here: 

 

[OldTravelingShoe]

22 hours ago, DvdRiet said:

 

Hi @zwiron, I started a new thread with photos of my pens with metal sections here: 

 

This thread is getting better and better! Thanks both @DvdRiet and @zwiron for this.