Permanent Archival Ink Recommendations?

January 31, 2022

Hey everyone.

I need some recommendations for a dark blue permanent archival ink. I have been using my old Sheaffer Skrip Blue/Black, but it is almost gone and appears to be no longer available so I need to find something new.

I know the Sheaffer ink may not be a true archival ink, but from my testing it is pretty darn waterproof.

My use is for official government documents, the blue is to help distinguish from photo copies, which is less relevant these days with color copiers.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Greebe

January 31, 2022

Noodler's has quite a few blue inks that are water resistant, but Bad Blue Heron and Bad Belted Kingfisher are the only ones listed as archival I believe. I like Noodler's but some don't.

January 31, 2022

Montblanc Permanent blue is certified DIN ISO 14145-2 as a permanent ink. Works well with most papers and shades nicely too.

January 31, 2022

Sailor Seiboku and Sailor Souboku would be my picks. Other options include:

De Atramentis Document inks
Rohrer & Klingner Document inks
Rohrer & Klingner sketchINKs
Various iron gall inks
Colorverse's Office series
Platinum Pigment Blue
Various Noodler's inks are permanent

A trip through Vanness's list of permanent inks is interesting, and tempting...

January 31, 2022

Thanks for the replies. Had thought about Noodlers 54th Mass., but have not been super happy with some of their inks in the past. (10 years ago was about the last time I bought a bottle.)

I was planning to buy some of the De Atramentis Document fog grey or dark blue, but then saw some people saying it feathered badly.

I will check out Montblanc Permanent blue.

I will also look at the link to permanent inks.

Thanks.

January 31, 2022

If you'll take a brilliant blue please consider Noodler's Baltimore Canyon. It's archival, waterproof and trouble free --has been my standard blue for the past year. Review here

January 31, 2022

Is Baltimore Canyon now part of the regular Noodler's lineup? I picked up a couple of bottles at pen shops but wasn't sure if it was just that they had gotten their hands on leftover bottles from the Baltimore-Washington Show that didn't happen due to the pandemic going into full swing.

As for the other suggestions....

I've tried a couple of the De Atramentis Document inks and wasn't all that happy with them -- they tended to spread a lot.

Iron gall inks in general are water-resistant, but not lightfast/UV resistant, in my experience (much as I like them).

I like some of the Noodler's inks (El Lawrence, Heart of Darkness, and 54th Massachusetts, although they all tend to vary somewhat by batch). Didn't really care for Bad Belted Kingfisher -- YMMV. Kung Te Cheng is pretty much *everything* proof, but tends to be very cloggy and badly behaved in other respects. OTOH, my old bank used to make a stink about ONLY using blue or black for signing checks -- but never batted an eye over EITHER KTC or El Lawrence...).

Have not tried the R&K Sketchinks, the Colorverse Office line, or the Platinum Pigment Blue (although I really like Sailor Souboku). As for the MB ink? Tried a sample of Midnight Blue a few years ago and didn't care for it, but found a bottle of Permanent Blue-Black at an estate sale a while back and like it very much (not sure how old the ink is -- I haven't been able to find a lot of info about it, but it does not appear to behave like an iron gall ink.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

February 1, 2022

Yes, @inkstainedruth I believe Baltimore Canyon is a normal Noodler's ink. I see it on Goulet's website and it's listed on Noodler's site too. (I didn't bother checking beyond that.)

February 1, 2022

54th is trouble. It gunks, dries up easy ... it wasn't a good experience for me.

X-Feather Blue should be sufficiently permanent. According to the JetPens product listing:

Bulletproof: This ink is water resistant on cellulose-based papers and resists all known tools of forgers, including UV light, bleach, alcohol, and other solvents. This ink may still be vulnerable to smearing when exposed to water.
Eternal: Made to resist the effects of time, this ink is archival, fade resistant, and unaffected by humid or acidic conditions.

And I just noticed that the bottle art is Churchill with a Tommy Gun. I can't wait to read the other side with the label that explains, why.

February 1, 2022

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/323386-ink-fade-testing/?p=3854815

We have some more:

Fading Test For 4 Black Inks
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327687-fading-test-for-4-black-inks/?hl=fade

2017 Fade Boards
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327320-2017-fade-boards-are-up/?hl=fade

Not the same as a fade test but sort of:
Ink Comparison From 15+ Years Ago
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/317516-ink-comparison-from-15-years-ago/?hl=fade&do=findComment&comment=3767327

Quick Fade Test
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/325668-quick-fade-test/?hl=fade

The ever important:
Results - Does Ink Fade In The Bottle?
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/254849-results-does-ink-fade-in-the-bottle/?hl=fade

A Few Faded Flowers...

Inky T O D - Have You Ever Had An Ink Fade?
http://www.fountainp...ad-an-ink-fade/

Inky T O D - Have You Ever Had An Ink Change Color After It's On The Paper?
http://www.fountainp...s-on-the-paper/

Here was the 2012 - I'm having to reupload images:

How Much Sun Can My Ink Take
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/215715-how-much-sun-can-my-ink-take/?&p=2263109&fromsearch=1&do=findComment&comment=2263109

And the 2013 scans
Fade Olympics 2013 Sponsored By T L V P P
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/248800-fade-olympics-2013-sponsored-by-tlvpp/

Sunny Experiments - # 4 - Need Help[/size]
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/221804-sunny-experiments-4-need-help/page-1

Sun Test On Ink, Toner And Solid Ink Printer
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/219741-sun-test-on-ink-toner-and-solid-ink-printer/?do=findComment&comment=2321170

Moleskine Fade

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/264613-edelstein-inks-fading-on-moleskine/

And a brand new one of blues:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348936-into-the-blues/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4349930

New Batch Of Ink Fading Comparisons (Ongoing)

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/347819-new-batch-of-ink-fading-comparisons-ongoing/

Light Resistance (Fadeout) Fountain Inks Tests

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355738-light-resistance-fadeout-fountain-inks-tests/

February 1, 2022

Given that it's for government documents, there are two options I'd consider-

1. A good old fashioned iron heavy iron gall ink like Diamine Registrars or ESSRI. As I understand it, these are the defacto standard for government documents in the UK, so would be a safe bet. With that said, IG inks tend to have high water resistance(the blue dye component will wash away, but the iron remains) but are best for documents that are mostly kept dark and only referenced occasionally. I have in the past made notes with iron gall ink(Montblanc Midnight Blue IG) that stayed out under regular office fluorescent lighting, and they were bordering on illegible within a few years. On the other hand, I have notebooks and filed documents of the same age that remain perfectly legible with no signs of fading.

2. If light/UV resistance is important, the MB permanent inks, as mentioned above, do meet ISO standards for permanence. In the real world other brands like Noodlers bulletproof/eternal/etc inks(note that not all Noodlers inks carry these designations-standard Noodlers blue, for example, does not and it will run and fade when wet) have shown themselves to live up to their name, but with an ink that carries a specific certification you can point back to an independent permanence standard and not just a manufacturers claim.

I'll also mention, though, that if you're looking at an ink that's labeled permanent, be sure you actually check how the ink works in the real world. As an example, Parker Quink "Permanent Blue" is a lot more "permanent" than Quink Washable blue(which will just about run if you breath on it, and some mention it fading in the dark) but is still not that water resistant and can also readily be removed with an ink eraser.

February 1, 2022

On 1/31/2022 at 2:26 PM, LizEF said:

Sailor Seiboku and Sailor Souboku would be my picks. Other options include:

De Atramentis Document inks

Rohrer & Klingner Document inks

Rohrer & Klingner sketchINKs

Various iron gall inks

Colorverse's Office series

Platinum Pigment Blue

Various Noodler's inks are permanent

A trip through Vanness's list of permanent inks is interesting, and tempting...

What Liz said.

I will only add to check out Noodler’s Luxury Blue which is also a nice blue that is “bulletproof” and lightfast.

February 3, 2022

If you can use a really bright blue, Noodler's Midway Blue didn't fade in my experiments. I didn't find the image easily, but I'll see if I can find it.

February 3, 2022

I'd like to recommend five "permanents", most of which I use regularly. They are all easy to use (no clogging or ignition problems etc.), easy to get almost anywhere (okay, depends on where you live), relatively inexpensive, and although four of these are actually "blue-black", they are still pretty blue-ish and not almost completely black. In any old order...

Pelikan blue-black = 4001, i.e. "standard" series. Iron gall to various degrees.
Sailor Jentle blue-black (or any side-name other than Jentle. AFAIK all are still issued with a threesome number like 13-1007-244 where the last third remains 244).
Montblanc blue-black up to 2009. Iron gall. See the table below.
Montblanc Midnight Blue (blue-black, 2009-2013). Iron gall.
Montblanc Permanent Blue.

February 3, 2022

Permanence in ink , fountain pen ink, does not equate ability to stand UV/light exposure , even ISO standard do not help cause the criteria for those permanence are based upon document being kept in document safe environment, thus , cool, dry, ad shielded from light is being asked for ..

That stated, there is one single simple old fashion ink that's known to be able to stand it ( more or less ) good old fashion Carbon ink , cause they are pigment just as other pigment ink do but the carbon particle will remain , well Carbon , or Black even when deal continuous abuse of UV/ light where pigment ink can had their pigment simply fade , its one reason why the Carbon ink is , together with Iron Gall ink consider document grade ink for literally centuries. Mind that many of todays so call Carbon ink is not Carbon but pigment ink using pigment particles and you cannot expect the same. I've had Platinum modern nano particle Carbon ink that fade on me.

But of course both IG and Carbon ink will not had Blue colour, they were, are and likely will stay black once dried , one of my old time favourite as regard to permanent ink is my custom mix of 1:1 iron Gall Blue Black & Carbon , Sure its certainly a high maintenance ink, you need to keep using the pen and better clean it every so often but that goes for any of the pigment ink as well , the problem today is finding those true carbon ink , What I usually left with is either a choice between the Pelikan Indian ink, Hero 234, or Windsor & Newton Indian ink

February 3, 2022

9 hours ago, lapis said:

Interesting. I picked up a bottle of Permanent Blue-Black awhile back at an estate sale, and the box *is* marked as #12574 (although the labels on the bottle don't say that anywhere that I've been able find). But I have seen no evidence of it actually *being* an iron gall ink -- there has been no oxidation that I have detected. And in my experience with IG inks, that generally happens pretty quickly.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

February 3, 2022

Ruth.... MB 12574 was always an IG ink. Just like Lamy's at that time. You're right, that Ident.No. is printed on the back of the box (just over Made in Germany) but as you say, not on the bottom of the bottle. The few milliliters in my bottle still oxidize, a "feat" conforming with what MB once told me by phone. I've never yet heard here or elsewhere that that isn't/wasn't an IG!

February 5, 2022

That's what I find so confusing, lapis -- I've seen no evidence of the ink oxidizing on the page, the way I would have expected.

There's a color dot on the box, and one on the top label of the bottle, and those two dots appear to be showing the same color. But the top label on the box does NOT give the color name. And the bottom label does NOT say "12574" the way the sticker label on the box does. The label on the bottom of the bottle says:

4036

0609 2

which could just as easily be some sort of store inventory code for all I know....

And the back of the box says "Permanent" but does not mention iron gall, anywhere. If this ink has *ANY* IG in it? It's got to be so little that it makes R&K Salix look like some of the Platinum Classic inks look overloaded with iron gall in comparison -- I've seen almost NO oxidation at all (unlike ever other IG ink I've ever tried).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

February 5, 2022

Oh and I forgot the most permanent ink of all - Noodler's KTC - it is Armageddon Proof. It is water proof, fade proof, dirt proof and well, everything else proof.

February 5, 2022

Yeah. Everything proof

My two four ounce bottles of KTC are your fault....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Sign In

Permanent Archival Ink Recommendations?

Recommended Posts

Greebe

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Posted Images

Mr5x5

Link to comment

Share on other sites

carlos.q

Link to comment

Share on other sites

LizEF

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Greebe

Link to comment

Share on other sites

OCArt

Link to comment

Share on other sites

inkstainedruth

Link to comment

Share on other sites

OCArt

Link to comment

Share on other sites

katerchen

Link to comment

Share on other sites

amberleadavis

Link to comment

Share on other sites

bunnspecial

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Maurizio

Link to comment

Share on other sites

amberleadavis

Link to comment

Share on other sites

lapis

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Mech-for-i

Link to comment

Share on other sites

inkstainedruth

Link to comment

Share on other sites

lapis

Link to comment

Share on other sites

inkstainedruth

Link to comment

Share on other sites

amberleadavis

Link to comment

Share on other sites

inkstainedruth

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Forum Statistics

Member Statistics

Images

Albums

Most Contributions

Upcoming Events

Blog Comments

Chatbox

Files