Using bigger grip

[Asteris]

I have been using a  metro and recently i switched to a pelikan m200. I noticed, that even though the pelikan is significantly lighter and has a slightly larger grip, my hand would get tired more easily. After a few days I got used to it. Is it normal to have that experience after switching grips?

[Karmachanic]

Only when holding tightly.

[mtcn77]

  On 1/27/2022 at 12:33 PM, Asteris said:

I have been using a  metro and recently i switched to a pelikan m200. I noticed, that even though the pelikan is significantly lighter and has a slightly larger grip, my hand would get tired more easily. After a few days I got used to it. Is it normal to have that experience after switching grips?

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Hi, I have it too. My index and thumb gets numb using the pincer grip. It seems like carpal tunnel syndrome. Some people have stronger transverse carpal ligaments. It happens. You can get surgery for it, they just insert a catheter in the palm and rip it on the way out, it is quite elegant, just a single step treatment. There are tests for it - like flexing both hands together perpendicularly, or tapping on the ligament to arouse tingles. You can get surgery without these findings present as direct indication if you want to.

[Asteris]

  On 1/27/2022 at 1:56 PM, mtcn77 said:

Hi, I have it too. My index and thumb gets numb using the pincer grip. It seems like carpal tunnel syndrome. Some people have stronger transverse carpal ligaments. It happens. You can get surgery for it, they just insert a catheter in the palm and rip it on the way out, it is quite elegant, just a single step treatment. There are tests for it - like flexing both hands together perpendicularly, or tapping on the ligament to arouse tingles. You can get surgery without these findings present as direct indication if you want to.

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Wow, from 0 to 100 real quick. I don't get numb on the fingers, just get tired in the wrist area. And always seek advice from doctors before doing anything like this.

[Asteris]

  On 1/27/2022 at 1:03 PM, Karmachanic said:

Only when holding tightly.

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Thanks for your answer.

[Karmachanic]

  On 1/27/2022 at 8:49 PM, Asteris said:

hanks for your answer.

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My pleasure. You hold should be light, relaxed.  No tension.  Don't strangle the pen! 😜

[mtcn77]

  On 1/27/2022 at 8:49 PM, Asteris said:

Wow, from 0 to 100 real quick. I don't get numb on the fingers, just get tired in the wrist area. And always seek advice from doctors before doing anything like this.

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That was the general idea. The tingling tap test works on the wrist, too.

  On 1/27/2022 at 9:52 PM, Karmachanic said:

 

My pleasure. You hold should be light, relaxed.  No tension.  Don't strangle the pen! 😜

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Some people have no choice, their wrist ligament is tougher, their wrist bones are not concave enough. You never know until you wait and the nerves and muscles start wasting. The funny thing is, ergonomy works the same when holding a computer mouse, or a pen. If I could change my grip so my wrist is vertical instead of flat on the desk, it would not occur anymore. I think I need to hold the pen resting between the thumb-middle and ring fingers...

[Arkanabar]

You might also benefit from arm writing.  Back when writing was something people did all day, instruction manuals recommended a nearly slack grip (it helps to have a pen that requires no pressure to write with, which should include any well-adjusted fountain pen) and to use none of the muscles below your elbow for writing -- those muscles should all be stationary as you write.  Even though I write like this, I still prefer a grip with girth, around 9.5mm to 11mm.

[Maurizio]

Karmachanac and Arkanabar are exactly right. Try holding your pen as lightly as possible, with just enough grip that it won’t fall from your hand but no more than that, also try using your arm and shoulder to write with broader sweeping motions rather than just your wrist. 

 

For me having  a wider diameter pen helps me have control while using a looser grip. I also use one of those rubber thingies on the barrel of some of my pens. 

[Asteris]

  On 1/28/2022 at 10:34 PM, Arkanabar said:

You might also benefit from arm writing.  Back when writing was something people did all day, instruction manuals recommended a nearly slack grip (it helps to have a pen that requires no pressure to write with, which should include any well-adjusted fountain pen) and to use none of the muscles below your elbow for writing -- those muscles should all be stationary as you write.  Even though I write like this, I still prefer a grip with girth, around 9.5mm to 11mm.

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Where can I find those manuals? I recently switched from ballpoint so any instructions would be usefull.

[Arkanabar]

From the International Association of Master Penmen, Engrossers, and Teachers of Handwriting at iampeth.com.  They have an excellent collection of old handwriting manuals.

[Aether]

To weigh in here.  No strength in ligaments or muscles is required to hold a pen to write.  If a person is finding it painful then they are most likely holding the pen incorrectly.  Now I don't know about anyone else but I would consider re-educating my grip before looking at surgery.  Correct writing does not really involve the structures of the hand or the wrist other than to rest the pen while the shoulder muscles move the arm.

 

In my opinion it is becoming sadly more common for people to look for complex solutions to simple problems, especially if the simple solution requires personal effort.  I'm old, it's a gripe.  Sue me!

[Karmachanic]

  On 1/27/2022 at 10:04 PM, mtcn77 said:

If I could change my grip so my wrist is vertical instead of flat on the desk,

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There's a compter mouse that does that.

[mtcn77]

  On 1/31/2022 at 11:58 AM, Karmachanic said:

 

There's a compter mouse that does that.

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You read my mind.

[Wolverine1]

I suffered  a bunch of strokes a few years back. Since then, I have had to relearn how to write, since my right side was initially paralyzed.

The Physical Therapists, had me retrain my hands and my arms so that I could write again with my pens. First, they had me use my pens that were quite big in diameter, especially the section and the barrel of the pen. Then, he had me relearn to write with a very relaxed grip. Also, he had me relearn how to write using my arm, instead of using the smaller muscles of my right palm and fingers.

Doing this over the past few years has helped me to be able to use my fatter pens. I have made sure that I have gotten my pens adjusted by a nib-meister, so they write with almost zero pressure on the paper. 

However, my handwriting has changed, it is quite bad, though legible. Makes me real sad when I see my journals and papers that I had written in prior to me suffering the strokes.

So, I would recommend that maybe you go and see a physical therapist, who has experience with people like you and me, and who can help you with methods of writing that do not stress out the muscles in your palm, your fingers, the muscles in your forearms that are responsible for the fine motor control.

Best of luck.

-Sid

[Paul-in-SF]

  On 1/31/2022 at 11:58 AM, Karmachanic said:

There's a compter mouse that does that.

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More than one. 

[Karmachanic]

  On 1/31/2022 at 4:47 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

 

More than one. 

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That's the way it is with mice

[Asteris]

  On 1/31/2022 at 3:52 PM, Wolverine1 said:

I suffered  a bunch of strokes a few years back. Since then, I have had to relearn how to write, since my right side was initially paralyzed.

The Physical Therapists, had me retrain my hands and my arms so that I could write again with my pens. First, they had me use my pens that were quite big in diameter, especially the section and the barrel of the pen. Then, he had me relearn to write with a very relaxed grip. Also, he had me relearn how to write using my arm, instead of using the smaller muscles of my right palm and fingers.

Doing this over the past few years has helped me to be able to use my fatter pens. I have made sure that I have gotten my pens adjusted by a nib-meister, so they write with almost zero pressure on the paper. 

However, my handwriting has changed, it is quite bad, though legible. Makes me real sad when I see my journals and papers that I had written in prior to me suffering the strokes.

So, I would recommend that maybe you go and see a physical therapist, who has experience with people like you and me, and who can help you with methods of writing that do not stress out the muscles in your palm, your fingers, the muscles in your forearms that are responsible for the fine motor control.

Best of luck.

-Sid

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I wish you to get your writing skills back and be in good health. One factor I did not share in my first post is that  I'm greek and the way I  write is the way they taught us at school. I will try and see what I can learn from the english penmaship books ( I don't think greek counterparts exist), but going to a specialist would be  in my case  last resort. Still, thanks for the advice.