Danitrio seems to have duplicated LE numbers of the same pen in separate “LE” runs

[jandrese]

This has been a hot topic on the FPN facebook group but for those not part of that here goes. 

 

This is the Danitrio F-49 Blue Dragon on Hyotan LE by the artist Yuji. It is, or was, an LE of 30 pens. Mine is #30. I bought mine in 2018 and it was not a new model then.

 

Pen Venture recently posted a YouTube video of an exactly identical pen with the same LE number by the same artist. No changes at all that I can see. The vendor confirmed to me a second edition of the same pen design was run at some point recently due to popularity. 

This totally undermines the concept of an LE and devalues every pen made in both (only two?) runs. Pretty much dishonest too.

 

What do y'all think?

 

Untitled-1 yes logo by Ja Ja, on Flickr

[SpecTP]

it depends if you consider the pens to be more collectible than practical.

[jandrese]

1 hour ago, SpecTP said:

it depends if you consider the pens to be more collectible than practical.

Is it mutually exclusive? I think it's about integrity and trust, which is the basis of every relationship even brand & consumer. 

[SpecTP]

to me it is.. for example.. I buy collectible figurines. I usually buy 2. one to play with and 1 that stays in the sealed box as a collectible.

 

As an owner of a MB Hemingway that is well used, I'd be indifferent if MB decides to release another batch of those pens. I probably would buy another if they do.

[Karmachanic]

Are they starting at #31?

[jandrese]

1 hour ago, Karmachanic said:

Are they starting at #31?

Nope. Mine and the other fellow's pen are #30/30 produced in separate runs years apart using the same artist and the same design. Identical save natural variation in the steadiness of the artists hand and minor variations in urushi color/application of metal powders. 

[jandrese]

1 hour ago, SpecTP said:

to me it is.. for example.. I buy collectible figurines. I usually buy 2. one to play with and 1 that stays in the sealed box as a collectible.

 

As an owner of a MB Hemingway that is well used, I'd be indifferent if MB decides to release another batch of those pens. I probably would buy another if they do.

So if in your collectible figurine world the value as a collectible is unaffected by reissues? Are the editions numbered or serialized. Is there traceability? Can two or more people have the item with the same edition number? That would seem to cause a lot of confusion in the marketplace and devalue any collection.

 

If MB issued another Hemingway pen I'd expect them to make the pens either without limited edition numbers, continue the numbers, or use the same numbers with some sort of further identification such as #120/2000 2022 edition. 

 

I don't care how many versions of this pen Danitrio makes; just don't use the same serial number. My beef is lack of integrity and subsequent loss of trust. They said from the outset, this will be 30 pens. Done, that should be the end of it, keep your promise. Then years later they say, sorry, we lied, here is the same thing again also in 30 pens also individually numbered using the same numbers. But in reality they did not say anything. They just put them up for sale as if we would all be too stupid to know any better. I do my level best to keep my word. Hard to see how Danitrio even tried to keep their word. 

[stan]

I guess the question really is are Danitrio makie pens collectable by virtue of limited numbers of one design? I'm not in that collecting strata but have not heard of such. Another question is do Danitrio makie pens appreciate in value? And, on what basis?

 

I own one Danitrio pen that I know (as best a I know and as described by the sole Danitrio representative) is one of a kind and have not found that it has appreciated in over ten years. 

[jandrese]

1 hour ago, stan said:

I guess the question really is are Danitrio makie pens collectable by virtue of limited numbers of one design? I'm not in that collecting strata but have not heard of such. Another question is do Danitrio makie pens appreciate in value? And, on what basis?

 

I own one Danitrio pen that I know (as best a I know and as described by the sole Danitrio representative) is one of a kind and have not found that it has appreciated in over ten years. 

Collectors collect for many reasons. With Danitrio the appeal can be everything from the writing experience to the design or the individual artist, some of which are famous/have high status, or the whatever. 

 

Danitrio has not done an awesome job of protecting their brand in general. They are also a relatively new player in the urushi and maki-e pen space. Regarding sales specially of various maki-e designs, the better executed of which are frequently limited production, there has been an increase in value over time. They have not yet realized fantastic gains at auctions that Namiki are famous for but even pens from that venerable brand tend to take about 20 years to marinate in the secondary market before gains are made. 

 

As a general rule I would expect xy or z Danitrio pen to at least hold value in the market over 10 years and possibly increase in value after that. Depends on brand management and fickle collecting habits and the phase of the moon I don't know. 

 

No matter the brand, well maybe not Dunhill Namiki sub-brand pens, urushi and maki-e pens are not good investment vehicles. I certainly don't view them that way. Been a tremendous sink of money for me that I can't imagine ever recovering even if I wanted to. The market is small but who knows, there is a lot of dumb money in the world, and maybe someday a wider audience will appreciate the hand craft. I do, however, expect Danitrio to at least try to protect the value in these expensive hand-made pens. Maintaining some form of integrity would help a lot. 

[SpecTP]

9 hours ago, jandrese said:

So if in your collectible figurine world the value as a collectible is unaffected by reissues? Are the editions numbered or serialized. Is there traceability? Can two or more people have the item with the same edition number? That would seem to cause a lot of confusion in the marketplace and devalue any collection.

 

If MB issued another Hemingway pen I'd expect them to make the pens either without limited edition numbers, continue the numbers, or use the same numbers with some sort of further identification such as #120/2000 2022 edition. 

 

I don't care how many versions of this pen Danitrio makes; just don't use the same serial number. My beef is lack of integrity and subsequent loss of trust. They said from the outset, this will be 30 pens. Done, that should be the end of it, keep your promise. Then years later they say, sorry, we lied, here is the same thing again also in 30 pens also individually numbered using the same numbers. But in reality they did not say anything. They just put them up for sale as if we would all be too stupid to know any better. I do my level best to keep my word. Hard to see how Danitrio even tried to keep their word. 

 

in my experience figurines/toys and MTG cards reissue don't devalue the original issues much at all (few are numbered anyways). my (unplayed) MTG cards are still valuable even after WOTC re-release some the cards.

 

I value the Hemingway for its attributes as a pen and not as a collectible.

[MHBru]

i may be a little naive but... if an LE item is issued and is serialized 1-30 I understant that a successful run prompts a reissue... but at 31... running another 1-30 is BS.  hard stop.

[fcarbon]

I consider, independent of purchasing intention or usage or status of the object (art, craft etc.), adding editions beyond the initially stated number, fraud.

[jmccarty3]

Pelikan pulled this stunt with the M900 Toledo some years ago, but I don't believe they duplicated any serial numbers. Beautiful Danitrio, BTW.