Best everday flex character for my writing if I decide to step up to $300 level?

[jonathan7007]

Hello All,

Summary:

If I decided to part with to $300 total for the "next step" what pens/nibs should I consider?
Goals:
1. less-hassle flex character to letters and note-taking
2. Write for a whole letter or at least a longer paragraph with consistent tone,
3. Consistent performance with as wide a range of inks as possible for more flexibility to pick an ink.  (Although I like wet pens and wet saturated inks anyway, to facilitate fast handwriting.)

 

Details, background:

All my note-taking, letters and cards to friends, etc. are written with fountain pens that vary the line in some way. I do experiment with grinding different stubby nibs from some other starting point. I try out lots of stubs and cursive italics. Because I love to experiment: cut feeds,try right and left footed configurations, change feed/nib placement, heat setting, even Photo-Flo additive - I have stuck with donor pens that are inexpensive to learn from doing.
My handwriting, luckily, fits flex because I always build the shapes from a strong downstroke. I want to write quickly, so prize those feeds that allow this even when tines have to splay to form the shape I'm trying to create. No calligraphy here: I don't decorate the letters. And my main nibs have been Ahab and the very good Fountain Pen Revolution "Ultra-Flex." Both usually need their feeds altered a bit: I deepen ink channels and now experiment with cutting fin-to-channel junction. I have a lot to learn about flow hacks!

I've known about the Pilot FA nibs for a long time but didn't see a video that showed its ability to keep up while laying down line variation. A recent YouTube made it seem an option though, and there is a $27 after-market ebonite nib that impresses owners who comment on 912 reviews...
It's all about the nib. I'm not a pen "collector" even though there are a lot of pens here on the desk/workspace.

 

Long post... I see here usually "not done" but I tried to anticipate questions.

 

Thanks, all, in advance for your thoughts.

[Karmachanic]

That would be an Ebonite feed from Flexible Nib Factory.    Try it.  You'll like it.

[mizgeorge]

What ^^ said. I fitted a three channel version to my custom 912 FA and it transformed it. 

[jonathan7007]

2 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

That would be an Ebonite feed from Flexible Nib Factory.    Try it.  You'll like it.

Yes, I knew that, thanks. I've been to their site. These are out of stock at the moment.

[jonathan7007]

3 hours ago, mizgeorge said:

What ^^ said. I fitted a three channel version to my custom 912 FA and it transformed it. 

Thanks, mizgeorge. Are you able to write at full speed with this combination? Jot down ideas at the speed of, say, a phone conversation, meeting notes, anything that requires instant and consistent flow of ink. Most demonstrations of flex in general are to show off the decorative results. Maybe for a stunning envelope address. But I want to rip right along making a list, organizing my thoughts.
I will continue to tinker and experiment with FPR nibs, especially on my Ahabs, but even in retirement I have enough demands on time and attention that the idea of a pen that will just do flex without fuss seems, now, worth some coin of the realm I couldn't make myself spend before...

[mizgeorge]

20 minutes ago, jonathan7007 said:

Thanks, mizgeorge. Are you able to write at full speed with this combination? Jot down ideas at the speed of, say, a phone conversation, meeting notes, anything that requires instant and consistent flow of ink. Most demonstrations of flex in general are to show off the decorative results. Maybe for a stunning envelope address. But I want to rip right along making a list, organizing my thoughts.
I will continue to tinker and experiment with FPR nibs, especially on my Ahabs, but even in retirement I have enough demands on time and attention that the idea of a pen that will just do flex without fuss seems, now, worth some coin of the realm I couldn't make myself spend before...

Yes I can - provided I'm using the right ink. Anything too dry will slow it down a bit, but I tend to use Iroshizukus in this one, so haven't had any problems at all (as yet!). 

 

It will produce 'pretty' writing without any real effort, but I'm also perfectly happy using it for quick scribbles, drawing, and (perhaps the worst torture test) even taking shorthand notes. I get the occasional problem there with too many repeated horizontal strokes, but that's more to do with bad pen position than poor feed.

 

I don't consider it a calligraphy nib per se - I have vintage flex nibs and dip pens for that - but the amount of line variation is more than enough for me to enjoy for an everyday pen.

 

[dipper]

5 hours ago, jonathan7007 said:

I've known about the Pilot FA nibs for a long time but didn't see a video that showed its ability to keep up while laying down line variation.

 

The review linked below goes into that topic a little. The review also explained to me why FPNetwork members talk about the FA nib, but in the UK it is a bit of a mystery.

 

(Even AmazonUK says "Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.")

 

https://www.pencilcaseblog.com/2020/03/review-pilot-custom-743-fountain-pen.html?m=1

[Karmachanic]

4 hours ago, dipper said:

We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock

 

Buy directly from Japan.  Or *bay.

[Karmachanic]

6 hours ago, dipper said:

We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock

 

Buy directly from Japan. Or *bay

[jonathan7007]

dipper, thank you. That 743 takes the "Size 15" version of the FA nib. This video comparison demonstrates differences of flow and line character between 1. an 823 equipped with 743 FA nib and 2. Custom 912FA. The reviewer tells us and demonstrates a wetter, more responsive Custom 912 with the "Size 10" version of the FA nib design. (Plastic feed) He describes a stiffer "15" nib.

 

That video linked here is what made me think: I'd pay to have one pen that writes with character at a fast pace and fits my handwriting style. But to do due diligence I have to start with the price and ask if there are interesting alternatives at that price - to meet the same goal.

[A Smug Dill]

4 minutes ago, jonathan7007 said:

I'd pay to have one pen that writes with character at a fast pace and fits my handwriting style.

 

Ah, but “with character” doesn't mean — or at least doesn't have to mean — maximal observable line variation. Even looking at the writing samples you posted, all of them exhibit some character, and I don't think it's a valid assumption for anyone else to make that the more line variation there is, the more character of the type you want is expressed. For myself, too much (seemingly undisciplined) line variation would actually be less in keeping with the character of my handwriting, and that is why I dislike the Pilot Custom Heritage 912's FA nib; I don't think it was an ink flow issue that caused me so much frustration I ended up pulling the nib out of the pen and snapping it with my fingers in anger.

 

So what exactly is the “character” you want? I mean, if you write fast and it keeps up with observable but half the maximum line variation you've seen from some pens, would that still be writing “with character”, and more so than a pen that can flex to produce really wide lines but not contoured or controlled like how you want it as the end result visually?

 

[jonathan7007]

9 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

So what exactly is the “character” you want? I mean, if you write fast and it keeps up with observable but half the maximum line variation you've seen from some pens, would that still be writing “with character”

Smug Dill - an excellent clarification for the discussion. "Character" is vague. I took no special care in the handwriting sample, on purpose, so as to mimic my usual desire to get the ink down onto paper quickly with interesting, appealing (to me) shapes and not make each letter or word ornately beautiful. That is why I said in another reply that I don't do calligraphy. Sure, I work more slowly or carefully writing the address on a letter (showing off, I guess), but not the desk notebook or other minute-to-minute materials.

 

So to be more specific: the Ahab-FPR UltraFlex hybrids in the samples - with care and time to spare - make elegant wide strokes possible. I force that sometimes for fun or a challenge. But the sample you see there is a SUCCESSFUL outcome for pleasurable note-taking, quick letter, lists. Except for the heaviest railroading, of course, because who can read that?

 

Now I would value your thoughts on how the 912 FA might not be able to do that. I need to hear from users - more than reviewers!

I am not wedded to purchase of this pen/nib. I *had* planned to look at more videos, read more blogs, etc. before buying one these (or any other $300 combo!)

 

Again, thanks for the clarification.

[Grayspoole]

Fair warning: I’m going to talk more about writing than nibs

 

At the outset, I want to state the calligraphy is ANY kind of beautiful writing: it is not just letters with decorations. Thus, although you write “No calligraphy here: I don't decorate the letters,” I would say your writing is informal calligraphy because it is energetic, well-formed, and rhythmic.

 

I’ve looked carefully at your samples and it seems to me that your writing is better suited to italic nibs (which can have some flex) than a pointed flex nib.  Many letterforms created with pointed flex nibs begin with a hairline or a fine point, swell to a thick line, and then taper off to a hairline or point. That’s what pointed flex nibs are meant to do.

 

In your writing, you seem to want to create bold lines of mostly uniform thickness, whether they are thicks or thins. You have squared off stops and starts to your letters—which are actually quite tricky to execute with a pointed nib when the letterform requires it. Squared off stops and starts are not achieved by mashing down the pointed nib down to its fullest flex at the start of the line, but by a horizontal motion or even a second stroke.

 

Compare the shapes of the letters in  “FPR” in your first line (Ultraflex) and in your fifth (Stub 1.0).  In the first, the ends of the capital letters finish off with rounded tapered points, which is what happens as you gradually lift a pointed nib off the page. With the stub nib, the letters in the FPR are squared off.  Now compare the lower case ‘f” in your “abcedefghi” with both nibs.  With the Ultraflex nib, your “f” begins with a fine hairline top loop and then ends with a sharp taper. With the stub, there is less line variation in your “f” (although there is a pleasing contrast between the body of the letter and the crossbar) and your “f” ends with a crisp, sharp angled edge. Which “f” do you prefer? That should help you decide on the type of nib you want…pointed or italic.

 

My instinct is that your desired bold and speedy style of handwriting lends itself much more to italic nibs than pointed ones. A pointed nib, when used as designed, requires you to pace your writing to allow the tines to create hairlines, thicks, and “swells.” Your Ultraflex samples exhibit some railroading which is not surprising since I think you are trying to flex the nib quite a lot. (And the Ultraflex is not all that flexible, at least the one that I have isn’t.) An ebonite 3 channel feed should help with the railroading but it won’t change the shape of the lines and letters that are typically achieved with pointed nibs. With the right italic nib, you will get wonderful line variation with no fuss. If you can, I would suggest trying a long tine italic nib with no tipping and some flex. One of my favorites of these is the Osmiroid Music nib, which you can also use in an Esterbrook.

 

Hope this is helpful. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find.

 

[Tasmith]

18 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

That would be an Ebonite feed from Flexible Nib Factory.    Try it.  You'll like it.

Thanks for the link!  May now have a reason to take my TWSBI 580 out of hibernation.

[A Smug Dill]

16 hours ago, jonathan7007 said:

So to be more specific: the Ahab-FPR UltraFlex hybrids in the samples - with care and time to spare - make elegant wide strokes possible. …‹snip›… Now I would value your thoughts on how the 912 FA might not be able to do that.

 

I don't know about that. The primary reason why the CH912's FA nib disappointed and frustrated me is that it does not return to the narrowest hairline, after a swell or broad stroke, either quickly or gracefully, especially if I was trying to write continuously with few pen lifts. It had nothing to do with how wide a line the nib could put down when pressed, or whether the feed could keep up without railroading or ink starvation being evident on the page.

 

Also, if you were using 5mm line-grid paper in your writing sample, then your ‘normal’ handwriting is a lot larger than mine, even when I'm not concentrating on trying to produce Italic or cursive writing, but just doing what I did for twenty years with rollerball pens and such until I switched to using fountain pens almost exclusively three or four years ago. That means the same ‘character’ would not require such objectively broad strokes, since the stroke widths should be proportional to the size/height of the glyphs to give them a particular style or form, even when one isn't intent on producing calligraphy.

 

[jonathan7007]

12 hours ago, Grayspoole said:

My instinct is that your desired bold and speedy style of handwriting lends itself much more to italic nibs than pointed ones.

Grayspoole You have offered interesting food for thought. I have a bunch of Noodlers untipped flex nibs (with the single long slit.) I will make a narrow stub with one of these and experiment with the result. I do like the feel and so far the performance of that FPR "1.0" steel stub (seen in the sample with Oster Fire&Ice) so I had already ordered several of those a week ago to mount on pans. That stub has tipping.

 

I first tried italic nibs in the early 60's (teenager!) with Osmiroid pens and nibs. A while back I discovered that three of those nibs and a (sadly-now-cracked) Osmiroid 65 were still in my kit. So based on your great photo I have started looking for a Osmiroid "music" nib for my Esterbrook J.

 

I will comment further on your suggestions as soon as I can. I enjoyed your different "angle" on the handwriting - thank you for the thoughtful analysis.

[jonathan7007]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Also, if you were using 5mm line-grid paper in your writing sample, then your ‘normal’ handwriting is a lot larger than mine, even when I'm not concentrating on trying to produce Italic or cursive writing, but just doing what I did for twenty years with rollerball pens and such until I switched to using fountain pens almost exclusively three or four years ago. That means the same ‘character’ would not require such objectively broad strokes, since the stroke widths should be proportional to the size/height of the glyphs to give them a particular style or form, even when one isn't intent on producing calligraphy.

Smug Dill Yes, that grid *is* 5mm squares. MiquelRius spiral A4 notebook paper. Your handwriting is wonderful in the albums you've posted. I should post another few lines to add more context to the interesting perspective offered in this thread since I'm asking if a particular pen would work for me without the fiddling I take for granted with my frankenpen creations.

[A Smug Dill]

10 minutes ago, jonathan7007 said:

Your handwriting is wonderful in the albums you've posted.

 

Thank you!

 

Hundreds of sheets of my uglier handwriting that didn't make the cut ended crunched up and tossed into the bin. Do not pass SCANNER, do not digitise at 200DPI.

 

[Christopher Godfrey]

Jonathan, you wanted to hear from users, you said, above, so here I am to give you my own input and experience.

 

Some years ago I bought a dud (Wancher, I think) from a Japanese seller and he was good enough to take it back and replace it with a Custom 743 for me, fitted with #15FA nib.  At first I could not get the pen to start properly and the tram-lining was ghastly.  I was getting so frustrated with it that I was for months on the verge of offering it for sale...until some kind soul here on FPN suggested I look for the replacement feed from Flexible Nib Factory.  I'm ashamed to say I cannot remember who it was; but he almost <insisted> that I persevere and go to FNF for their feed.

 

Well, I bought the replacement feed (two-channel) which took all of about two minutes to install and -- guess what? -- I now have a modern flexible nib that almost pleases me as much as any of my vintage Pelikans, Osmias, Mabie-Todd Swans!  Immediate transformation!  The ink flow is perfect -- only <very> occasionally have I seen a hint of tram-lining if I overdo it: I love this pen.

 

Joey Grasty (proprietor of FNF) offers the feed in two versions: two-channel and three-: the three-channel version is likely over-kill: I was advised that it is suitable if you intend to draw with your pen or wish for heavy flow.  Actually, there are more versions because you may also choose, for a few more dollars, to buy the feed in red ebonite -- so four versions, really.  Joey is very prompt to respond to any enquiry or purchase and is an utter gentleman with whom to deal.  The feed is really quite cheap, too.

 

I hope this post is of help or interest to you?  My 743 is still the only Japanese pen I own, but I wouldn't now be without it.

[amberleadavis]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:42 PM, jonathan7007 said:

Hello All,

Summary:

If I decided to part with to $300 total for the "next step" what pens/nibs should I consider?
Goals:
1. less-hassle flex character to letters and note-taking
2. Write for a whole letter or at least a longer paragraph with consistent tone,
3. Consistent performance with as wide a range of inks as possible for more flexibility to pick an ink.  (Although I like wet pens and wet saturated inks anyway, to facilitate fast handwriting.)

 

 

I would love to see what you have done with your Ahabs.  Would you be interested in playing with some other pens?  I have some pens that I think would be fun, but need different nibs.  I have two of the Noodler's Safety pens that are boring as is.

 

On 1/21/2022 at 6:04 AM, Grayspoole said:

Fair warning: I’m going to talk more about writing than nibs

 

 

 

My instinct is that your desired bold and speedy style of handwriting lends itself much more to italic nibs than pointed ones. A pointed nib, when used as designed, requires you to pace your writing to allow the tines to create hairlines, thicks, and “swells.” Your Ultraflex samples exhibit some railroading which is not surprising since I think you are trying to flex the nib quite a lot. (And the Ultraflex is not all that flexible, at least the one that I have isn’t.) An ebonite 3 channel feed should help with the railroading but it won’t change the shape of the lines and letters that are typically achieved with pointed nibs. With the right italic nib, you will get wonderful line variation with no fuss. If you can, I would suggest trying a long tine italic nib with no tipping and some flex. One of my favorites of these is the Osmiroid Music nib, which you can also use in an Esterbrook.

 

Hope this is helpful. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find.

 

 

 

This post was a wonderful discussion.  Feel like having a pen pal?

 

On 1/21/2022 at 6:15 PM, jonathan7007 said:

Grayspoole You have offered interesting food for thought. I have a bunch of Noodlers untipped flex nibs (with the single long slit.) I will make a narrow stub with one of these and experiment with the result. I do like the feel and so far the performance of that FPR "1.0" steel stub (seen in the sample with Oster Fire&Ice) so I had already ordered several of those a week ago to mount on pans. That stub has tipping.

 

I first tried italic nibs in the early 60's (teenager!) with Osmiroid pens and nibs. A while back I discovered that three of those nibs and a (sadly-now-cracked) Osmiroid 65 were still in my kit. So based on your great photo I have started looking for a Osmiroid "music" nib for my Esterbrook J.

 

I will comment further on your suggestions as soon as I can. I enjoyed your different "angle" on the handwriting - thank you for the thoughtful analysis.

 

Now, I too must go hunting for an Osmiroid music nib.  . Well maybe not this week.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 3:24 PM, Christopher Godfrey said:

 

Well, I bought the replacement feed (two-channel) which took all of about two minutes to install and -- guess what? -- I now have a modern flexible nib that almost pleases me as much as any of my vintage Pelikans, Osmias, Mabie-Todd Swans!  Immediate transformation!  The ink flow is perfect -- only <very> occasionally have I seen a hint of tram-lining if I overdo it: I love this pen.

 

Joey Grasty (proprietor of FNF) offers the feed in two versions: two-channel and three-: the three-channel version is likely over-kill: I was advised that it is suitable if you intend to draw with your pen or wish for heavy flow.  Actually, there are more versions because you may also choose, for a few more dollars, to buy the feed in red ebonite -- so four versions, really.  Joey is very prompt to respond to any enquiry or purchase and is an utter gentleman with whom to deal.  The feed is really quite cheap, too.

 

Who is this Joey fellow and where do we find him?  Also, please show us before / after pics if you have them.