New Lamy 2000 - Very Impressed

[Jagamov]

Hi all,

 

Quick history.  I own 3 Montblanc FP’s, a 145 - F, 146 - M, and an Ultra Black M - M.  I also own 3 Safari’s 2 - M, and 1 - F.  I bought the Safari’s in order to play with ink colors and to take to work without fear of them “walking off”.

 

The more time I spend here, the more I became intrigued with the Lamy 2000.  I love the design and most everyone seemed to sing its praises.

 

So yesterday, I went down to Dromgoole’s, tested one, and walked out with a Medium nib model.

 

I’m not a professional reviewer but I can honestly admit that it is hands down the smoothest writer out of all my pens.  So much so that it caught me off guard.  I noticed it the very first word I wrote.

 

I tested it on several papers.  On Clairefontaine Triomphe, it is like writing on glass.  It just glides across the paper.  I also used it on Rhodia R and Dotpad, Tomoe River (both weights), Midori MD, and Midori MD Cotton.  All being very smooth with the Cotton exhibiting the most feedback.  Absolutely no skipping with any of the paper using MB Royal Blue Ink.

 

My MB 145 and 146 (my M is a bit scratchy) are very smooth to me with just a hint of feedback…but the 2000 blew me away.

 

Again, not a professional so not sure what other words to use.  Anyway, its a winner and might be my new favorite writer.

 

Here’s a family photo.  Thanks for reading.

[arcfide]

I've found the L2k to be very smooth as well, but maybe a bit too smooth for me. I find that with some of my inks it feels like it "suction cups" onto the page of some papers, and on others I feel like I don't get really good "first stroke" reliability. However, they really are exceptionally smoothly polished, and they do feel quite good in the hands. 

[Checklist]

I love the smoothness of my 2000, too.  I've said before that I keep looking for excuses to write with it when it's inked up, which is about the highest praise I can imagine for a pen.

[Glenn-SC]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:55 AM, arcfide said:

I find that with some of my inks it feels like it "suction cups" onto the page

Please explain a nib “suction cupping” onto paper. I have never heard of that effect before and have never felt it myself. 

[LYTH]

Nice purchase. Enjoy !

[PAKMAN]

Congrats, love my 2000!

[Biber]

I too just got a 2k. I had been worried that the pen might be on the large side (well, too thick, that is) for my taste, but I was quite surprised at just how small it comes across as being (I don't post) It writes well and I don't seem to experience the nib "sweet spot" so many talk about. I actually rotate it a bit to get some character into the line.      

[sansenri]

I love my 2000 too!

The only unexpected feature is (as I like broader nibs) that it's B nib is a firehose! So much fun though!

I probably need to get another sooner or later with an F for a different experience...

[Jagamov]

Thanks everyone!

 

@Biber As far as the "sweet spot" talk that many had mentioned...I don't seem to notice it either.  I just look at it when I pick it up and start writing.  It does not seem to be picky.  Love the size and I seem to like it posted better.

 

Here's a question for you guys:  Since I'm a relative novice in the fountain pen world....Is very smooth the ultimate goal, or do you like the feedback (like writing with a pencil)....or is it strictly just personal preference? 

[Karmachanic]

11 minutes ago, Jagamov said:

.Is very smooth the ultimate goal, or do you like the feedback (like writing with a pencil)....or is it strictly just personal preference? 

 

 Yes!

[maclink]

4 hours ago, Jagamov said:

Here's a question for you guys:  Since I'm a relative novice in the fountain pen world....Is very smooth the ultimate goal, or do you like the feedback (like writing with a pencil)....or is it strictly just personal preference? 

For me: On the one hand, smooth is nice, but a nib that is too smooth on the paper is difficult to write well with.  On the other hand, the 'dampening' effect of a little antagonistic force through feedback goes a long way in facilitating controlled, smooth movements while writing.  But too much feedback can be uncomfortably restricting.  So for me, too much of one or the other isn't desirable.  However, I do enjoy variations within a range or smoothness/feedback characteristics.  That particular range of preference seems to vary between users.

[Checklist]

6 hours ago, Jagamov said:

Is very smooth the ultimate goal, or do you like the feedback (like writing with a pencil)....or is it strictly just personal preference? 

Personal preference, so long as there's not too much feedback.

[arcfide]

12 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

Please explain a nib “suction cupping” onto paper. I have never heard of that effect before and have never felt it myself. 

 

On smooth paper with a polished nib, you can have the same effect as you might get with a wet suction cup being pressed down and sliding across a smooth surface. There's a type drag, but because the nib is smooth, it's not the inconsistent drag of a rough nib tearing paper or gripping onto fibers, but it's more the waxy drag of a candle. This can happen on even papers that aren't considered especially "waxy". There's so little feedback that the resistance just feels continuous, almost like the paper is lightly sucking the pen in. This is in contrast to a pen where there is feedback that you can feel and hear from the nib, but with little to no drag. The pen slides over the paper easily, but with a distinctive sound and feel. Such pens can tend to go too far into the "scratchy" territory with some papers for some people, whereas these high polished nibs might actually feel better by the buffer and space created by the rougher paper texture, in the same way that dry graphite lubricants work. 

[Glenn-SC]

2 hours ago, arcfide said:

There's so little feedback that the resistance just feels continuous, almost like the paper is lightly sucking the pen in.

I still don’t understand this effect. I don’t believe that paper can somehow “attract” a nib.  Drag on a nib can be caused by roughness of the paper, roughness of the nib tipping surfaces, misalignment of the nib’s tines, or the viscosity of the ink.

But, if you feel something, then you feel something. 

[arcfide]

21 minutes ago, Glenn-SC said:

Drag on a nib can be caused by roughness of the paper, roughness of the nib tipping surfaces, misalignment of the nib’s tines, or the viscosity of the ink.

But, if you feel something, then you feel something. 

 

As above, there's a difference between a nib catching on paper and "sticking" to paper. Roughness that leads to catching on the fibers of the paper can create a type of drag, but that's not the only sort of drag two surfaces can experience. I'm trying to describe the effect by appealing to the common experiences that you can have with other hyper smooth objects. If you take two smooth glass plates you can create the same effect with a little water, or how a glass of water can slide around a table and you eventually feel that drag as it stops floating on the water but before you've completely dried the bottom of the glass, while being difficult to pick up. Or if you have a knife really well polished against a very high grit stone (like a 15k or 20k grit polishing stone). 

 

I looked up whether or not there is a formal name for this, and it appears that there is. From the Wikipedia page on adhesion:

 

Quote

Lateral adhesion is the adhesion associated with sliding one object on a substrate such as sliding a drop on a surface. When the two objects are solids, either with or without a liquid between them, the lateral adhesion is described as friction. However, the behavior of lateral adhesion between a drop and a surface is tribologically very different from friction between solids, and the naturally adhesive contact between a flat surface and a liquid drop makes the lateral adhesion in this case, an individual field.

 

In other words, the forces created by two smooth surfaces creating drag on the paper with a liquid (ink) between them is different than the drag or friction created by two rough surfaces interacting through catching and other types of friction. 

 

Roughness and drag are therefore two different things. Paper can have drag but still be smooth, while other paper can be rougher but have less drag. Same for nibs. This effect has been noted many times by many other people, so I'm confident that I'm not the only one. 

[N1003U]

11 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

I still don’t understand this effect. I don’t believe that paper can somehow “attract” a nib.  Drag on a nib can be caused by roughness of the paper, roughness of the nib tipping surfaces, misalignment of the nib’s tines, or the viscosity of the ink.

But, if you feel something, then you feel something. 

 

I have experienced this effect a bit with very large-nibbed (6mm/0.25") dip pens with flat bottoms (such as Speedball pens) on non absorbent paper. It is a viscous effect that occurs when a thin film of liquid is trapped between two surfaces, and air can't get in between to make the two surfaces separate. I can't feel it with a fountain pen (and agree it is probably a very subtle effect), but then, I don't have the most refined tactile senses, and I tend to use boring round-ball nibs.

 

EDIT: As I reflect a bit more, it is kind of the same "squeaky" feel one can get from dragon a wet finger on glass surface, or making a wine glass "sing" by dragging a wet fingertip around the rim of the glass. I suppose it is a similar dynamic that makes some nib/ink/paper combinations "sing".

 

One way to experience this force is to find a thin light sheet of fairly rigid plastic. Then wet you fingertips thoroughly and press them onto the sheet, and you should be able to pick it up (if the plastic sheet is lying on a rough surface and the vacuum and or static charges under the plastic are not making it cling to whatever is it lying on). If water doesn't work, try it again with vegetable oil.

 

10 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

As above, there's a difference between a nib catching on paper and "sticking" to paper. Roughness that leads to catching on the fibers of the paper can create a type of drag, but that's not the only sort of drag two surfaces can experience. I'm trying to describe the effect by appealing to the common experiences that you can have with other hyper smooth objects. If you take two smooth glass plates you can create the same effect with a little water, or how a glass of water can slide around a table and you eventually feel that drag as it stops floating on the water but before you've completely dried the bottom of the glass, while being difficult to pick up. Or if you have a knife really well polished against a very high grit stone (like a 15k or 20k grit polishing stone). 

 

I looked up whether or not there is a formal name for this, and it appears that there is. From the Wikipedia page on adhesion:

 

 

In other words, the forces created by two smooth surfaces creating drag on the paper with a liquid (ink) between them is different than the drag or friction created by two rough surfaces interacting through catching and other types of friction. 

 

Roughness and drag are therefore two different things. Paper can have drag but still be smooth, while other paper can be rougher but have less drag. Same for nibs. This effect has been noted many times by many other people, so I'm confident that I'm not the only one. 

 

I have experienced similar behavior, but only with very large nibs. Your sense of feel is I suspect much more refined than mine, but I know exactly the "waxy" feel you describe.

 

 

[Glenn-SC]

And exactly how much surface area does a nib have to have to be “sucked“ onto paper.  I would expect that the surface area of a nib smaller than the 1/4-inch width posted would have an insignificant to undetectable effect from this phenomenon.
Surface tension from a liquid (i.e. the ink) will cause some attraction between the nib and paper but I would be surprised it could be felt (although it could probably be measured by sensitive enough equipment). 

[arcfide]

4 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

And exactly how much surface area does a nib have to have to be “sucked“ onto paper.  I would expect that the surface area of a nib smaller than the 1/4-inch width posted would have an insignificant to undetectable effect from this phenomenon.
Surface tension from a liquid (i.e. the ink) will cause some attraction between the nib and paper but I would be surprised it could be felt (although it could probably be measured by sensitive enough equipment). 

 

I don't feel this effect on ball-tipped nibs of M size or less, and not on most similarly tipped pens of B type. I get this effect particularly with the stubbier tipped pens in large B or greater tipping sizes, generally. A Waterman modern stub nib is probably just on the edge of being able to feel it consistently, but not quite there. The Lamy 2000 B and BB nibs both have it to a much more pronounced degree. The Lamy 1.5mm and 1.9mm stub nibs can exhibit this behavior a bit for me, as well as the F-C Music nib. The crisper stubs don't exhibit this as much as the flatter and thicker stubs like the L2k nibs. I think the high polish and generous tipping of the L2k B and BB nibs have this effect more than most of the nibs I've tried in recent memory. Nibs that suggest this but don't quite make the cut (they're right on the edge) are some wet Waterman nibs that I've used in the M size with large tipping. This is in contrast to the B Sailor KOP nibs and the Platinum Music nib that I have, which both probably could have this effect, but their grind creates a distinctly different sensation. 

[maclink]

Interesting discussion. I too have experienced this unexpected ‘resistance’ from broader nibs, despite having very smooth tuning. However, on all occasions it’s ink and paper sensitive. What I mean is that, with one ink/paper combo, a buttery smooth experience with minimal resistance while writing results, while with another ink/paper combo, there’s a somewhat unpleasant drag that isn’t the typical feedback that I would feel with finer nib grinds. The nib may also squeak in such a situation though not always. 

[N1003U]

6 hours ago, maclink said:

Interesting discussion. I too have experienced this unexpected ‘resistance’ from broader nibs, despite having very smooth tuning. However, on all occasions it’s ink and paper sensitive. What I mean is that, with one ink/paper combo, a buttery smooth experience with minimal resistance while writing results, while with another ink/paper combo, there’s a somewhat unpleasant drag that isn’t the typical feedback that I would feel with finer nib grinds. The nib may also squeak in such a situation though not always. 

 

This is also a good description of the effect. I only feel it with really huge nibs, but with more normal nib sizes, I experience the effect as squeaking/singing in the nib.