I got this pen today

[Bo Bo Olson]

Stompie, you have beautiful handwriting.

 

If the pens have been repaired/refreshed, use them before the rubber sacs fail.

 

Once rubber sacs lasted 30-40 years or even more. (I had one that lasted 60)  Now from my reading one hopes for 10 years.............partially I WAG from supersaturated inks.

[Stompie]

50 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Stompie, you have beautiful handwriting.

 

If the pens have been repaired/refreshed, use them before the rubber sacs fail.

 

Once rubber sacs lasted 30-40 years or even more. (I had one that lasted 60)  Now from my reading one hopes for 10 years.............partially I WAG from supersaturated inks.

Thanks Bo Bo - I will give them a try just going to put a lot of paper towel close by in case!

[Waltz For Zizi]

On 4/14/2023 at 3:06 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

I live in Germany, and super high US postal costs have kept me far away from the US fountain pen market even from the days when, I'd been looking at old cheap  Shaffer's or Parkers.

I had once a big lot of Esterbrooks and pre-post war Wearevers. Slowly got rid of them.

Now I regret that, but then I'd not use a lot of them.

 

Was from English Ebay. So I could afford the postage. Still have two Esteis and two Wearevers. the wife's Turquoise  70's and the fat capped camouflaged MP/FPWearever, (in the middle next to the red pre-war Wearever) , and a one of the marbled blues and Copper Estie.

Wearever had second tier pens, besides third and forth tier ones.

 

How does this tier work? is there a website where I can read?

Are tier 4 pens like the bottom of the barrel almost single use pens?

[inkstainedruth]

By "tier" he means different levels of brands.  Back when everyone used fountain pens on a regular basis, the top tier brands (at least here in the US) were stuff like Parker, Sheaffer, and Waterman.  Second tier brands would be things like Morrison and Esterbrook.  Third tier?  Wearever, Rexall, and the like; fourth tier would be no-name brands.  

Part of the difference would be quality, part of it would be price.  Some people class Esterbrook as a third tier brand, but I'd argue that it is better than that, because they were inexpensive compared to the top brands, but their claim to fame was the wide variety of grades and types of nibs, which could be easily swapped out.  Your kid needs a pen for school?  Get one with a 1xxx series student grade nib which just had a fold-over nib (no tipping).  Your secretary lost her pen on the bus?  Have a spare Gregg shorthand nib on hand (a 1555, 2555 or 9555 depending on what quality you needed.  

This is a pretty basic description, so hope it helps.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Misfit]

11 hours ago, Stompie said:

I have had a number of vintage pens stored away and have not used them in at least the last 8 years. All of them had been sent away for a service or repair but have then been packed away. I looked at them yesterday as I want to give them a run again but this Parker 51 was the only one I could be sure of the state of the ink sac so I filled it and........

 

 

Ah, the ink @jandrew inspired you to get. Thank you for sharing the image of Diamine Salamander in action. I’ve been hoping to see it.  I can appreciate swatches. But nothing beats seeing handwriting for those of us who only use  fountain pen ink for writing. I’ve read of fountain pen ink in artwork. 
 

I did look at the mountain of ink review of it. Kelly indicated the ink has low shading. That looks correct from your photo. Sometimes I see her low shading rating, but see shading in her photos. 

[51ISH]

10 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

By "tier" he means different levels of brands.  Back when everyone used fountain pens on a regular basis, the top tier brands (at least here in the US) were stuff like Parker, Sheaffer, and Waterman.  Second tier brands would be things like Morrison and Esterbrook.  Third tier?  Wearever, Rexall, and the like; fourth tier would be no-name brands.  

Part of the difference would be quality, part of it would be price.  Some people class Esterbrook as a third tier brand, but I'd argue that it is better than that, because they were inexpensive compared to the top brands, but their claim to fame was the wide variety of grades and types of nibs, which could be easily swapped out.  Your kid needs a pen for school?  Get one with a 1xxx series student grade nib which just had a fold-over nib (no tipping).  Your secretary lost her pen on the bus?  Have a spare Gregg shorthand nib on hand (a 1555, 2555 or 9555 depending on what quality you needed.  

This is a pretty basic description, so hope it helps.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Would a pen have been Tier 1  irrespective of how much it cost if it was made by (say) Parker? 

[inkstainedruth]

I'm not sure.  I have a couple of Parkettes, which are basically a lower-end Parkers (possibly a sub-brand but don't quote me on that), but they're well-made and nice writers.  I also have a Craig (a sub-brand of Sheaffer) ringtop, but I still need to get it repaired, IIRC (I think it needs a new sac).  

But even the "top tier" brands carried pens at various levels and price points, to get a range of customers.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[51ISH]

5 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

I'm not sure.  I have a couple of Parkettes, which are basically a lower-end Parkers (possibly a sub-brand but don't quote me on that), but they're well-made and nice writers.  I also have a Craig (a sub-brand of Sheaffer) ringtop, but I still need to get it repaired, IIRC (I think it needs a new sac).  

But even the "top tier" brands carried pens at various levels and price points, to get a range of customers.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

'I think'  if a pen carried (say) the name Parker it would still be 'considered to be'  Tier 1 irrespective of the cost of the pen. (A Sheaffer No Nonsense is still a Sheaffer... just a more affordable Sheaffer...) When you change the name to Parkettes then it becomes 'something else'  Tier 2 or lower...

[Paul-in-SF]

5 hours ago, 51ISH said:

Would a pen have been Tier 1  irrespective of how much it cost if it was made by (say) Parker? 

 

In my opinion, no, or at least, not exactly. A company like Parker made less expensive pens for economics and marketing reasons. During the Depression, for example, lots of people could no longer afford top-line pens, so Parker made lower-quality pens that they could price lower to keep people buying their product. Those lower lines could also be considered entry-level pens for younger buyers, who would be more likely to stay with Parker as the pens they bought got better and more expensive. The less expensive pens were (usually) still good pens, but there were of necessity compromises in some areas to allow for the lower prices. Perhaps a little cheaper materials, steel nibs instead of gold, gold-plated instead of gold-filled fixtures, and so on. These pens would compete with other 2nd or 3rd tier manufacturers, and perhaps benefited in that competition from the prestige of the brand name. 

 

Some companies had different names for their different tiers, and within each tier there were different model names: Wahl had Eversharp for their top models, and Oxford for their 2nd tier models (but they were all Wahl pens). Mabie Todd's top line was Swan, and they had two lower-tier lines, Blackbird and (I think) Swallow. Those are a couple that come to mind, there were probably others like that. 

 

There were, of course, other companies that never made pens better than 2nd tier, and/or who made pens for other companies to sell under their own names, or who sold pens with no names on them at all. Many of these pens have lasted a long time and so weren't disposable (that concept for pens did not really exist at the time, I think). 

[51ISH]

5 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

 

In my opinion, no, or at least, not exactly. A company like Parker made less expensive pens for economics and marketing reasons. During the Depression, for example, lots of people could no longer afford top-line pens, so Parker made lower-quality pens that they could price lower to keep people buying their product. Those lower lines could also be considered entry-level pens for younger buyers, who would be more likely to stay with Parker as the pens they bought got better and more expensive. The less expensive pens were (usually) still good pens, but there were of necessity compromises in some areas to allow for the lower prices. Perhaps a little cheaper materials, steel nibs instead of gold, gold-plated instead of gold-filled fixtures, and so on. These pens would compete with other 2nd or 3rd tier manufacturers, and perhaps benefited in that competition from the prestige of the brand name. 

 

Some companies had different names for their different tiers, and within each tier there were different model names: Wahl had Eversharp for their top models, and Oxford for their 2nd tier models (but they were all Wahl pens). Mabie Todd's top line was Swan, and they had two lower-tier lines, Blackbird and (I think) Swallow. Those are a couple that come to mind, there were probably others like that. 

 

There were, of course, other companies that never made pens better than 2nd tier, and/or who made pens for other companies to sell under their own names, or who sold pens with no names on them at all. Many of these pens have lasted a long time and so weren't disposable (that concept for pens did not really exist at the time, I think). 

 

Thank you. Interesting stuff, I didnt realize.

[Bo Bo Olson]

9 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

nd (I think) Swallow.

and Jackdaw.........

 

Shaffer had a sub brand Crest....there was a red/reddish one I'd had, had I lived in the States, and therefore been able to afford the postage.....living in Germany I couldn't. When postage from the States cost 1/2 the price of a pen...cheap old days....one buys cheap on the German Ebay, with affordable postage.

Sheaffer No Nonsense was second tier if not third.

I don't know if Targas are now considered second tier, but when I first saw them back when only the well to do had a color TV, I considered the thin pen second tier because it wasn't an ornate Imperial.

 

The Parker P-75, was a first tier pen, the P-45 was a second or (even third tier pen? In school kids did have them.)

School pens were third tier.

 

[Larry Barrieau]

Stompie, just try filling it with water first.

[Stompie]

On 4/16/2023 at 7:15 PM, Larry Barrieau said:

Stompie, just try filling it with water first.

Brilliant! So often we over think thigs hey and this is a perfect example of my having done exactly that! Thank you!

[Larry Barrieau]

Glad to help.

[Waltz For Zizi]

I just got this beauty. I am pleasantly surprised at how good the pen looks and the fit and finish. I wasn't expecting it to be this nice. The nib was a bit dry and scratchy but nothing that 5 min on 12000 grit can't solve.

I might have to get myself another one or 2, just in case.🤣

It's a Jinhao 100 Little Century, I forgot to mention.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The Chinese pens have become more and more beautiful.

[Penguincollector]

I received my matte black Targa (1003) today, just as pretty as I remember it. I don’t know what size the nib is, it’s soaking since there was a black cartridge left in the pen for a long time. I think the converter is pristine, and there are 3 black cartridges left in the package. I paid less for it than the sticker price.  When its turn in the rotation comes, there’s a Peacock Blue cartridge waiting for it, or maybe a converter of King’s Gold.

[AmandaW]

This one was a little slow in the post and with the tracking not telling me anything, I was getting worried. Then today it showed up - a good thing we were home to sign for it.

 

A Pilot pocket pen in teal with a Script nib. I lost count of the number of water changes in the ultrasonic cleaner - lots and lots of blue ink came out. It has cleaned up pretty well I think. Now it needs some ink... 💙

 

[PithyProlix]

36 minutes ago, AmandaW said:

This one was a little slow in the post and with the tracking not telling me anything, I was getting worried. Then today it showed up - a good thing we were home to sign for it.

 

A Pilot pocket pen in teal with a Script nib. I lost count of the number of water changes in the ultrasonic cleaner - lots and lots of blue ink came out. It has cleaned up pretty well I think. Now it needs some ink... 💙

 

 

I love these pens. The Script nib is one of my all-around favorites for note-taking and other extended writing.

 

Will it get teal ink?

[mizgeorge]

This was a bit of an impulse buy, but I'm so pleased with it. It's without doubt the best polished ebonite I've got, and the design is so nicely thought out that it makes me smile every time I look at it. 

 

Pocket pen from Pen7 - I think there are still just a few left at a very, very reduced price and can't recommend them highly enough.