I got this pen today

[Number99]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:55 PM, OldTravelingShoe said:

Very interesting. We would need then at least one more person in this, because I only have Japanese pens from 1950s onwards, and my focus is really the period 1960s-1970s. @Nikolaos, do you have perhaps pens from Japan from before the 1950s, maybe even before 1929, with MANIFOLD nibs? If so, would you join such a test sometimes until, say, February 2023? The same question applies to anyone else who'd like to - and we should switch the deeper discussion to another thread. 

 

Oh, I have no theory at the moment, really. It may develop, data-driven, but I have too little expertise to develop a model and then a model-driven theory. (Plus, I really don't want to compete with @kamakura-pens, he's one of the reasons I joined FPN, alongside @A Smug Dill and a handful of others.) 

It was never my intention to propose a large scale experiment.

I was simply proposing a "hypothetical" that could be accepted by all for exactly the same reasons as yours. I hope it acts as a valid excuse to support both inevitably because it is actually difficult to verify.

(It is also very likely that the properties of carbon paper in the days without ballpoint pens would be different than they are now)

 

Coincidentally, I was bidding on a Pilot Elite shaped like the Silvern that you and @PithyProlix have. (with a high probability of sack torn bellows filler)

I didn't expect to win the bid, but that pen is coming my way.

 

So thanks for the picture of the filler system.

If the original filler system is a bellows filler, I believe the adapter attached to the cartridge is the invention.

I think it would eliminate the need for future bellows sack replacements.

[PithyProlix]

4 hours ago, Number99 said:

It was never my intention to propose a large scale experiment.

I was simply proposing a "hypothetical" that could be accepted by all for exactly the same reasons as yours. I hope it acts as a valid excuse to support both inevitably because it is actually difficult to verify.

(It is also very likely that the properties of carbon paper in the days without ballpoint pens would be different than they are now)

 

Coincidentally, I was bidding on a Pilot Elite shaped like the Silvern that you and @PithyProlix have. (with a high probability of sack torn bellows filler)

I didn't expect to win the bid, but that pen is coming my way.

 

So thanks for the picture of the filler system.

If the original filler system is a bellows filler, I believe the adapter attached to the cartridge is the invention.

I think it would eliminate the need for future bellows sack replacements.

 

Congratulations on winning the auction. What is the nib size?

 

If it is a accordion/bellows filler with a bad sac, Pilot Japan can repair for a reasonable price. I think it is nice to have this filling system, which works quite well and is easy to use.

[A Smug Dill]

On 12/12/2022 at 5:56 AM, Chimera01 said:

I see you're in Sydney. Just curious... do Cult Pens ship ex-VAT? 

 

Affirmative. UK's VAT of 20% does not apply to orders that Cult Pens export directly to Australia. Australia's GST rate is applied instead.

 

See also:

• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/361098-has-cultpens-started-collecting-taxes-from-us-customers/
• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/365934-taxes-when-importing-into-uk/?do=findComment&comment=4527527 (a thread in which you have replied)

[Number99]

23 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

 

Congratulations on winning the auction. What is the nib size?

 

If it is a accordion/bellows filler with a bad sac, Pilot Japan can repair for a reasonable price. I think it is nice to have this filling system, which works quite well and is easy to use.

Thank you.

 

There is no indication of nib size and date, and it is stamped "Custom Pilot Japan 18k-750 〄".

I initially thought "custom" meant a standard nib, synonymous with "script", "F", etc., as many older Silverns have the same markings.

But that may not be the case...

I will look into it after I receive the pen and get back to you again.

 

According to several blog posts, the model name is "Balanced-type Custom Elite".

This model was followed by the Custom Elite Silvern, according to them.

 

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nekopen23/archives/50124376.html

 

https://www.sumi-ri.com/columnpilotsilvern.htm

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Number99
Typing error correction.

[Nikolaos]

On 12/11/2022 at 7:55 AM, OldTravelingShoe said:

Very interesting. We would need then at least one more person in this, because I only have Japanese pens from 1950s onwards, and my focus is really the period 1960s-1970s. @Nikolaos, do you have perhaps pens from Japan from before the 1950s, maybe even before 1929, with MANIFOLD nibs? If so, would you join such a test sometimes until, say, February 2023? The same question applies to anyone else who'd like to - and we should switch the deeper discussion to another thread. 

 

Oh, I have no theory at the moment, really. It may develop, data-driven, but I have too little expertise to develop a model and then a model-driven theory. (Plus, I really don't want to compete with @kamakura-pens, he's one of the reasons I joined FPN, alongside @A Smug Dill and a handful of others.) 

I will check to see if I have a manifold nib from that period, I might just have one.  

Regarding the filler, most likely it had the accordion filler which is practically impossible to find anymore.  Possibly a Con-20 could work as well. 

[effrafax]

Pilot E95s in black, with an F nib.  Beautiful, smooth writer, typical Pilot.

 

[Number99]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:57 PM, PithyProlix said:

 

Congratulations on winning the auction. What is the nib size?

 

If it is a accordion/bellows filler with a bad sac, Pilot Japan can repair for a reasonable price. I think it is nice to have this filling system, which works quite well and is easy to use.

I just received my Pilot Custom Elite.

 

Apparently the nibs are customized according to the user's order.

In examining several custom elites with "custom" stamped on the nibs on the internet, several nibs do not have the nib size stamped on them.

Specialty vintage pen stores sell these pens with descriptions such as "F" or "manifold". (presumably by a technician's test pen).

 

My custom Elite nib did not have a date code. But instead there was a small engraving along the cap band that read 1970. I think it is some sort of error coin.  (This may be worthless in the fountain pen arena.)

 

The filler parts were all there. The breather tube cannot be pulled out, so no modifications can be made.

If it is possible to determine that the pen is of value to me by test writing, the pen will be sent to Pilot Corporation's repair department to have the rubber bellows pressure filler repaired.（They call "ゴムベローズ押圧式フィラー"）

 

As for the model name of the pen, an internet search confirmed that the pen came with an instruction manual. On the cover of the instruction manual, the "Elite" logo was marked under "Pilot Custom".

 

*I borrowed the product image of the pen I purchased.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Number99
Correction of mistranslation.

[PithyProlix]

16 hours ago, Number99 said:

Apparently the nibs are customized according to the user's order.

In examining several custom elites with "custom" stamped on the nibs on the internet, several nibs do not have the nib size stamped on them.

Specialty vintage pen stores sell these pens with descriptions such as "F" or "manifold". (presumably by a technician's test pen).

 

Interesting. I wonder what the options for nib customization were?

[PithyProlix]

17 hours ago, Nikolaos said:

Regarding the filler, most likely it had the accordion filler which is practically impossible to find anymore.  Possibly a Con-20 could work as well. 

 

Unfortunately a CON-20 will not work in a Pilot with the bellows/accordion filler. Pilot has the sacs and can repair, as they did with mine, but also the closed end of a straight sac can be cut off and attached to the filler button and, instead of pushing, the button can be turned to twist & untwist the sac. Not ideal but it's doable and worked well enough when I tried it. The sac itself has to be pretty short to fit but, because of the large sac bushing and hollow button, it holds a decent amount of ink.

 

[A Smug Dill]

This arrived a couple of days ago:

 

 

and my wife has already taken custody of it (after I, well, offered).

 

I swear I didn't know that Platinum is going to bring the (Japanese domestic market retail) price up for this pen shortly, when I ordered it impulsively (driven by the significant ‘flash’ discount on offer, as usual), let alone knowing by how much…

 

[Nikolaos]

while I have just about every specialty nib from the 1920s-30s, I don't have a Manifold. I do have one from the Pilot Super series (1950s) and one from the 60s-70s. Both nibs are sturdy and consistent with small line variation.  Smooth writers. 

[Number99]

9 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

 

Interesting. I wonder what the options for nib customization were?

Through an Internet search, I found two units that still had the original band stickers from when they were sold.

It had "5000JPY manifold (5000円マニホールド)" and "5000JPY broad (5000円ブロード)" printed on it. (Are broads in the first Elite nib size lineup?)

The nib is marked "custom" and the nib size is hidden.

Thus, it was confirmed that the nib size was fixed when this pen was placed in the store.

 

So, I stand corrected on the word "customized" in my previous post.

 

BTW, I was curious as to when the nib size indication was changed, so I checked the Custom Elite date codes for you and @OldTravelingShoe. But interestingly, neither of you had a nib date code.

So, out of curiosity, I have a question.

Is there an engraving on the cap of the pen that suggests a date?(not the date code of the barrel.)

Please let me know if it becomes verifiable at some point.

But why did the Pilot omit the date code…

 

I am asking too many questions, I guess…

😅

 

[Nikolaos]

In the 30s some of the "specialty" nibs were Manifold, Oblique, Broad, Falcon, Coarse, maybe Music 

 

 I don't think one had the option to opt for a larger nib size, just cause they wouldn't really fit in the section 

[effrafax]

Blue Majohn P136 and also blue A1.

 

[Misfit]

Beautiful pen @A Smug Dill

[A Smug Dill]

2 minutes ago, Misfit said:

Beautiful pen @A Smug Dill

 

Thank you. It's a little lightweight and too slick for my personal preferences, although you can feel where the hira (‘flat’) maki-e graphics is slightly raised. The #3776 Century Kanazawa-Haku pens, of which I have all three variants released so far (all also fitted with 14K gold F nibs), handle a little better for my grip on account of the surface texture. Still, I don't regret for even one moment snapping up Amazon Japan's offer on the Kaga Maki-e pen; and, if my wife ‘loves’ it as she professes to do, she can certainly keep it in her fleet.

 

By the way, the nib on the pen ‘hard-started’ a little, out-of-the-box, on my southwest-to-northeast oriented entrance strokes, because the right tine extended a hair's width further out than the left tine. A few pen strokes on a brown/kraft paper bag fixed that problem soon after; still, it made me do a double-take on why an otherwise perfect-looking grind would present such problems for my handwriting technique.

 

[PithyProlix]

15 hours ago, Number99 said:

BTW, I was curious as to when the nib size indication was changed, so I checked the Custom Elite date codes for you and @OldTravelingShoe. But interestingly, neither of you had a nib date code.

So, out of curiosity, I have a question.

Is there an engraving on the cap of the pen that suggests a date?(not the date code of the barrel.)

Please let me know if it becomes verifiable at some point.

But why did the Pilot omit the date code…

 

I am asking too many questions, I guess…

😅

 

There's some chance that the date code is on the barrel but I am away from home until next week. There's also a chance that the date code is on the nib but inside the section.

 

I was looking through my photos and had forgotten that mine has a Manifold nib!

 

[PithyProlix]

So, this is very likely my last antiquing foray on this longish trip I have been on in North Carolina - I return home next week.

 

My first order of business today was not an antique store but Crazy Alan's Emporium in Chapel Hill (I believe some of you know Crazy Alan from pens shows in the US). I left a Parker 51 Demi vac that I found on this trip with him so that someone he knows could replace the diaphragm - I went to his shop to pick it up today. While there I looked in his $10 & $15 pen cups and found

• an Esterbrook - I believe it's an M2 with a missing aero filler but looks like it will do fine as an eye dropper. Or I could just put a sac on it and squeeze the sac with my fingers to fill. I will put one of my flexible or italic Osmiroid nibs in it.
• an old celluoid pen that has no markings on it other than the nib - "Visavac Velvetouch". I thought it had a 14k nib but when I looked at it more closely when I got back it actually says 14k plated. Everything is frozen up with dried ink and I'm unsure what the filling system is - perhaps an eyedropper but (what looks like it might be) a blind cap makes me wonder.

I also picked up a wide italic Speedball nib. Crazy Alan threw in a box of Private Reserve Vampire Red ink cartridges for free (I forgot to put them in the photo). Great store to visit if you are in the area - many pens, both new (mostly Pilots and Sailors, I believe) and vintage (many different kinds) - and Crazy Alan is a really nice guy and fun to talk with.

 

From there I went to the Sanford Antique Mall. This one and the Collector's Antique Mall in Asheboro were my favorites of the ones I went to around the Greensboro & Winston-Salem area. 

• Probably the most interesting item is the hexagonal brass pen in the middle. "Eagle Pencil Co. New York Pat April 29, 1890" The patent is for a filling system consisting of a glass cartridge (patent image here). I can hear the glass cartridge moving inside the pen when the pen is moved (and it sounds like the glass is intact) but I haven't figured out how to open the pen yet (!). The nib is very flexible and I believe it is made of brass.
• Very faded Waterman Ideal Junior with a non-matching celluoid cap. Flexible nib but not wet-noodle flex.
• The old black ebonite pen, which is an unmarked eyedropper, has the section stuck in the cap but at $5 I thought it was worth the risk that I can repair it and that a nice nib/feed/section is still there.
• Three Esterbrook Renew-point nib units: 1551 Student (Firm Medium School), 2550 Posting (Firm Extra Fine), and 2668 General Writing (with the wrong box).
• My first bottle of Montblanc ink but, unfortunately, black ...
• Of all the Sheaffer ink bottles only the two most recent have ink that's not dried out. Those two are full but again, unfortunately, are black ink. I will likely clean all of them out, put in new rubber or cork cap gaskets if needed, and use them to store the ink I buy in pouches from L'Artisan Pastellier, my favorite ink maker. (With 3 more Skrip bottles, two old Quink bottles, and an old Waterman bottle, all purchased during this trip, I have a lot of ink bottles to take back with me!)
• Box of Waterman cartridges - uh, uhm, yep: black. (Have you figured out yet that I don't like black ink?)
• Most of the dip pen nibs were clandestinely hidden in the pictured blue Ingraham Viceroy pocket watch box, which I just happened to check out because it was sitting alongside some other pen stuff. All the pointed nibs are flexible.
  • Various Speedball nibs.
  • Leonhardt 537M Ball Pointed J (7)
  • Gillott 303 (16), 404 (13), & 1044 Bank Pen (1)
  • Two types of nibs from Crunden Martin Woodware St. Louis without model name (9 of one type, 7 of the other)
  • Esterbrook Judge's Quill 312 (1)
  • William Mitchell's Selected J (1)
  • Spencerian Pen Co. No. 26 Fine (1)
  • Francis Pratt Shakespearian 472 (2)
  • Eagle Pencil Co. E-460 Medium Elastic (2)
  • Ivison Phinney Spencerian No. 1 (2)
  • Tadella No. 1 (2)
  • Bank of England Falcon Magee (1)
  • 3 crowsquill nibs - the only one I can read the imprint now is Perry & Co. Crow Quill No. 600

If anyone is into Esterbrook desk sets there are quite a few there, priced at around $30-$40 each. A handful of lower-end Sheaffer desk sets too and one snorkel desk set but the snorkel tube was missing so I passed.

 

Really wanted to visit another antique mall but I ran out of time ...

 

Total damage today was about $120 (not including the P51 vac repair, which was very reasonable).

 

[USG]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:48 AM, A Smug Dill said:

This arrived a couple of days ago:

 

 

and my wife has already taken custody of it (after I, well, offered).

 

I swear I didn't know that Platinum is going to bring the (Japanese domestic market retail) price up for this pen shortly, when I ordered it impulsively (driven by the significant ‘flash’ discount on offer, as usual), let alone knowing by how much…

 

 

I didn't know this was the one you were talking about the other day, it's very nice.  🙂👍

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, USG said:

I didn't know this was the one you were talking about the other day, it's very nice.  🙂👍

 

Thanks, … but were you referring to this mention?

 

On 12/2/2022 at 8:45 PM, A Smug Dill said:

Now, I'll go attend to the other new pen that came in today, which cost more than 150 times more than this pen…

 

That was something else.