Newcomer purchasing a metropolitan

[Asteris]

Hello, I'm a newcomer to the fountain pen world and I'm planning on buying a Pilot Metropolitan. To european buyers: does the pen come with a bladder or piston converter included or do I have to buy them seperatly?

Edited November 16, 2021 by Asteris

[3nding]

6 hours ago, Asteris said:

Hello, I'm a newcomer to the fountain pen world and I'm planning on buying a Pilot Metropolitan. To european buyers: does the pen come with a bladder or piston converter included or do I have to buy them seperatly?

 

Canadian market here: mine came with a cartridge and a squeeze converter. I had to purchase a piston converter separately.

[Asteris]

Just now, 3nding said:

 

Canadian market here: mine came with a cartridge and a squeeze converter. I had to purchase a piston converter separately.

Was the converter inside the pen. If it was the propably get them form production like that.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sorry don't know.

Way back in the when in the states for a few weeks, I almost bought one but the only ones they had in the store in the states was skinny nibs, and I was into wider nibs.

 

You can look the pen up in fountain pen reviews.

 

I just know it will have a  narrow nib, so you would want a very wet ink.  A Japanese M = Western F.

 

If you go Japanese narrow...their F (=EF) or EF (=XXF) you more than likely would need a very wet $$$ Japanese ink that would sell for E22- or E-25 a bottle, which is expensive.

(A long time ago Waterman was famous for a narrow nib, so made a wet ink.

Pelikan having a dry ink had a wet writing nib.

Pen companies strive to match their inks to their nibs.

 

So my advice is to buy Japanese M (F) or B (M) so you could get by with regular cheaper inks.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

Paper is the dance floor your nib and ink dance on.

 

Should you get a Japanese M or B, you can use drier western two toned shading inks, if you have 90g and better paper.

That costs two mechanically delivered cans of Coke, or two cups of Starbucks coffee more than normal cheap 80g copy paper.

A ream of good to better 90g or + paper will last you a year or two, if you dont' go shoving it in your printer.

 

Ink Jet paper is a no no.... it is the feathering champ, because it is designed for quick absorption of ink, and don't let the fountain pen ink sit on top of the paper for a couple of seconds....so that leads to a woolly line and or feathering.

 

By the way.....

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sorry don't know.

Way back in the when in the states for a few weeks, I almost bought one but the only ones they had in the store in the states was skinny nibs, and I was into wider nibs.

 

You can look the pen up in fountain pen reviews.

 

I just know it will have a  narrow nib, so you would want a very wet ink.  A Japanese M = Western F.

 

If you go Japanese narrow...their F (=EF) or EF (=XXF) you more than likely would need a very wet $$$ Japanese ink that would sell for E22- or E-25 a bottle, which is expensive.

 

A long time ago (a decade) Waterman was famous for a narrow nib, so made a wet ink.

Pelikan having a dry ink had a wet writing nib.

Pen companies strive to match their inks to their nibs.

 

So my advice is to buy Japanese M (F) or B (M) so you could get by with regular cheaper inks.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

Paper is the dance floor your nib and ink dance on.

 

Should you get a Japanese M or B, you can use drier western two toned shading inks, if you have 90g and better paper.

That costs two mechanically delivered cans of Coke, or two cups of Starbucks coffee more than normal cheap 80g copy paper.

A ream of good to better 90g or + paper will last you a year or two, if you dont' go shoving it in your printer.

 

Ink Jet paper is a no no.... it is the feathering champ, because it is designed for quick absorption of ink, and don't let the fountain pen ink sit on top of the paper for a couple of seconds....so that leads to a woolly line and or feathering.

 

By the way.....

[3nding]

3 minutes ago, Asteris said:

Was the converter inside the pen. If it was the propably get them form production like that.

 

I honestly don't remember unfortunately. I think I bought my Metropolitan something like 5 years ago.

[Asteris]

2 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Sorry don't know.

Way back in the when in the states for a few weeks, I almost bought one but the only ones they had in the store in the states was skinny nibs, and I was into wider nibs.

 

You can look the pen up in fountain pen reviews.

 

I just know it will have a  narrow nib, so you would want a very wet ink.  A Japanese M = Western F.

 

If you go Japanese narrow...their F (=EF) or EF (=XXF) you more than likely would need a very wet $$$ Japanese ink that would sell for E22- or E-25 a bottle, which is expensive.

 

A long time ago (a decade) Waterman was famous for a narrow nib, so made a wet ink.

Pelikan having a dry ink had a wet writing nib.

Pen companies strive to match their inks to their nibs.

 

So my advice is to buy Japanese M (F) or B (M) so you could get by with regular cheaper inks.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

Paper is the dance floor your nib and ink dance on.

 

Should you get a Japanese M or B, you can use drier western two toned shading inks, if you have 90g and better paper.

That costs two mechanically delivered cans of Coke, or two cups of Starbucks coffee more than normal cheap 80g copy paper.

A ream of good to better 90g or + paper will last you a year or two, if you dont' go shoving it in your printer.

 

Ink Jet paper is a no no.... it is the feathering champ, because it is designed for quick absorption of ink, and don't let the fountain pen ink sit on top of the paper for a couple of seconds....so that leads to a woolly line and or feathering.

 

By the way.....

I'm planing on getting an M nib, so no need to worry about ink costs. About the paper, thanks for the info but the prices on the ASVERTISED pen friendly paper ia high in my country. Luckily i have a faber-castell fountain pen (cheap one) M size that i tested the kinds if paper i have and found one brand that i don't meet any problems with smudges or bad ink flow on the paper. I might get proper pen paper in the future.

[Asteris]

7 minutes ago, 3nding said:

 

I honestly don't remember unfortunately. I think I bought my Metropolitan something like 5 years ago.

It's ok you helped me more than enough.

[Bo Bo Olson]

M in Euro/western (like your GvFC)....IS ....F in Japanese pens. And Japanese inks are wet because most Japanese nibs are skinny. From my reading they are skinnier than their M. They print in a tiny script, so need a real skinny nib.

 

It does help if you put what continent you are on, so we can direct you to good affordable paper and inks.

[Asteris]

5 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

M in Euro/western (like your GvFC)....IS ....F in Japanese pens. And Japanese inks are wet because most Japanese nibs are skinny. From my reading they are skinnier than their M. They print in a tiny script, so need a real skinny nib.

 

It does help if you put what continent you are on, so we can direct you to good affordable paper and inks.

I live in Europe, that's why i asked about Europe. For ink i have found the : Pelikan bottled ink royal blue. I'm not sure about how wet it is but i know it is a trustable brand.

[Bo Bo Olson]

It is a reliable ink, I have most and or had all the 4001 inks. They are a dry ink, because Pelikan makes a wet nib.

 

Your Japanese M, or western F, should do Pelikan inks just fine.

 

I find Oxford Optic 90g spiral note books to be as good as Clairefontaine Velout 90g as very good affordable paper. I have both, use both. They are good for two toned shading inks.

 

(Good paper makes such a difference...it's too bad our Ink Guru Sandy1 died, and her heirs closed down her photos. She showed what great differences nib width and good to better papers make to the color of an ink. There were many times, when it was hard to believe that it was the same ink.

Back when she was alive I use to point her out to all that were new.

The width of the nib makes a difference as does difference of good to better papers. For a pure noobie some of her papers she used would be in the class, but for  one grows out of that quickly...it becomes .....I do have to get the 8 or so papers she used over the last 10-15 years...............been saying that for years.)

 

Lamy Turquoise, is a relatively dry very good ink; it will shade on those papers.

 

Some 13 years ago, I came back to fountain pens after a life time in the wilderness of ball point use.

The third ink I bought was Lamy Turquoise. It was then the basic turquoise that all were compared too. It was OK, but compared to how folks loved it, a tad blaaa.

Back then there were only two Ink Reviews on that ink. Both showed it shading in they were using 90g paper. I had a little school booklet of Oxford Optic 90g, and it shaded for me too!!!!

 

So I've been chasing two toned shading inks ever since.

Pelikan 4001 will shade with 90g or better paper.

The only 4001 ink that will not shade is the new dark green.

 

You of course need some light and lively Lamy Turquoise, the bottle is a must have classic. Even has a roll of nib cleaner in the base of the bottle.

Pelikan 4001 turquoise is just as good as Lamy, but it's not got such a fancy bottle. 

 

 

 

[mizgeorge]

To try to actually answer the question, in most of Europe they're usually not called Metropolitans, but MR (often MR Retro Pop or MR Animal), and generally come with a cartridge (international short) and will take any international standard converter. No converter is included - but that's not that unusual for a pen you can buy for under £20. I believe they have been discontinued, but are still widely available at these very low prices.

 

The US versions take the Pilot cartridge/converter only. It very much depends on which retailer you use. 

 

I don't know which country you're in, but if it's available for you, Amazon often have them at very low prices, otherwise Pen Store (dot com) are good for EU customers.

[A Smug Dill]

36 minutes ago, mizgeorge said:

To try to actually answer the question, in most of Europe they're usually not called Metropolitans, but MR

 

Maybe once upon a time, when the pen model was first introduced, it was called the Metropolitan by Pilot in the US market; I'm not sure. However, for many years now, it is officially known — as listed on Pilot Corporation of America's web site, and also by the care instructions documentation in their retail packages — as the Pilot MR.

 

It seems a few lazy US authorised dealers have failed to update their marketing and online shop listings; and equally lazy US consumers have failed to either get the name from the horse's mouth, so to speak, or pressed those authorised dealers to get with the times.

 

11 minutes ago, mizgeorge said:

I believe they have been discontinued, but are still widely available at these very low prices.

 

 

The MR Metropolitan collection seems to have been discontinued by Pilot Corporation in Europe, but not the MR Animal and MR Retro Pop.

 

…

 

12 hours ago, Asteris said:

To european buyers: does the pen come with a bladder or piston converter included or do I have to buy them seperatly?

 

5 hours ago, Asteris said:

I live in Europe, that's why i asked about Europe.

 

Nothing about living in Europe stops European buyers from ordering from Japan (via eBay sellers) or the US (from Amazon.com, Pen Chalet, etc.), etc.

 

When ordering from sellers/retailers outside Europe, you're likely to end up with the version that uses Pilot's proprietary cartridge format, and the pen comes supplied with a CON-B squeeze converter inside the retail package.

 

When ordering from Pilot authorised retailers in Europe, you should end up with the version that uses ‘international standard’ cartridges common for ‘Western’ pen brands, but it will come supplied with no converter, only a short ink cartridge.

 

I just looked on Amazon.de, and it's possible to get either of those versions.

[Asteris]

20 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Maybe once upon a time, when the pen model was first introduced, it was called the Metropolitan by Pilot in the US market; I'm not sure. However, for many years now, it is officially known — as listed on Pilot Corporation of America's web site, and also by the care instructions documentation in their retail packages — as the Pilot MR.

 

It seems a few lazy US authorised dealers have failed to update their marketing and online shop listings; and equally lazy US consumers have failed to either get the name from the horse's mouth, so to speak, or pressed those authorised dealers to get with the times.

 

 

 

The MR Metropolitan collection seems to have been discontinued by Pilot Corporation in Europe, but not the MR Animal and MR Retro Pop.

 

…

 

 

 

Nothing about living in Europe stops European buyers from ordering from Japan (via eBay sellers) or the US (from Amazon.com, Pen Chalet, etc.), etc.

 

When ordering from sellers/retailers outside Europe, you're likely to end up with the version that uses Pilot's proprietary cartridge format, and the pen comes supplied with a CON-B squeeze converter inside the retail package.

 

When ordering from Pilot authorised retailers in Europe, you should end up with the version that uses ‘international standard’ cartridges common for ‘Western’ pen brands, but it will come supplied with no converter, only a short ink cartridge.

 

I just looked on Amazon.de, and it's possible to get either of those versions.

So, if I'm plannimg on buying it form Europe, it will not come with any converter?

[A Smug Dill]

10 minutes ago, Asteris said:

So, if I'm plannimg on buying it form Europe, it will not come with any converter?

 

I don't expect it will; but why don't you just ask your preferred retailer the question point-blank, before placing an order? This whole back-and-forth thing here is more time-consuming but yields less reliable information, if all you're concerned about is that one unit of the pen you're intending on purchasing and expecting to receive, instead of wanting more of an overview and getting broad-based intelligence on the hobbyist market landscape. We can't give you any reassurance or definite answers, other than gazing into the crystal ball, so to speak.