How many have a Weak Kneed Wet Noodle?

[Bo Bo Olson]

The answer after 74 views is none, and I bored that many folks all around the world. So I deleted the why and how and pictures of the guilty party.

Not a ,,, or anything........I just wasted everyone's time.

I do that, delete after 75 views.....once or twice I've waited to 100 views with no interest.

I have learned for the world to turn.

[Anne-Sophie]

Bo Bo did you share the picture of a especially beautiful and flexy nib?

 

I did not see it.

[DvdRiet]

I am still trying to figure out what a weak kneed wet noodle is exactly...

 

And I also missed the photo 

[Bo Bo Olson]

David,

A Weak Kneed Wet Noodle is to a Wet Noodle as a Wet Noodle is to Semi-flex.....................or semi-flex to a nail.

 

I have a system of halves that works for me from regular flex out to Wet Noodles.

Nails =1 X only no tine spread. Semi-nails = well mashed 2 X tine spread, and that needs lots of pressure to do that..................I leave them out of my system of halves. Only have a couple, a P-75 and a Pelikan 605 (now a stub). Pelikan 400/600 from '98 are semi-nails. A '70s Pelikan Silvrx...and if I have more...I don't waste ink in them.

..........................

Regular flex use to be normal regular issue. Some Sheaffer's & sub-brand Crest, some Esterbrooks, most Wearevers (used by workers and school kids...fewer could afford the flagships; just like today.) '82-97 Pelikans and other German pens of that era.

 

I have a system of halves.

The following three are in a 3 X tine spread set.

Regular flex well mashed will spread the tines to 3X vs a light down stroke.

Half of that pressure  is semi-flex.

Half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex is Maxi-semi-flex.

(I WAG 1 in 5 semi-flex is a maxi.) I Have 35 semi-flex and 15 maxi's.

Those are in a 3 X tine set group...more than 3 X will spring your nib...sooner than later.

 

Actually once your Hand is light you won't be maxing your semi or maxi all the time....they will be natural flair nibs, where you can ask for a bit more flair.... or asking for a bit more, a fancy decender at the end of a paragraph.........

Maxing either to get fat letters is IMO Nib Abuse....just get your self a superflex nib.

 

 

In superflex once you have discovered what the max tine spread of the nib has...(I do recommend working one's way up the flex ladder so you have an idea of tine spread pressures.) ALWAYS stay one width under it.

 

Read Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue.

 

I have a Pelikan 100n superflex...Easy Full Flex that will go 5 X a light down stroke. I strive to go only 4 X with it so I don't spring my nib. EF, F, M, B, and BB.....so I strive not to take it to BB.................from EF to B is wide.

 

Superflex is 4-7 X tine spread with three flex levels...for beginners with out lots of superflex pens. The more you have the more the borders blur.

 

Easy Full Flex uses half the pressure needed for a maxi-semi-flex to reach what ever max it has....mostly 5-6X, a light down stroke or 1/8th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

 

Half of that is a Wet Noodle, 1/16th the pressure needed to max a regular flex..

.................................................

Logically the next step would be 1/32 pressure from a regular flex...or just into the start of dip pen nibs....................

My Weak Kneed Wet Noodle takes @ 1/64 the pressure to max a regular flex.....or in the middle range of dip pens.

It defiantly makes a Wet Noodle look uncooked. Real Weak Kneed....

 

Only one time had I run into another such nib in an other much better looking  MB Safety Pen at a live auction viewing. It had one tine with out tipping so needed to be re-tipped. It went for E-360....Which for fountain pens in the live auction house I hang out in, is a lot. I normally max at E-150. & that is only in the last three or four years....I started out with the E-20 used pens and took years to get up to the 150 level. 5-6 different Psychological borders in between.

 

My Safety pen and three others are all packed up ready to go off for repair, but the impression I have is a tine spread of 8-9X vs a wet noodles max of 6 - 7 X. (I have 3 Wet Noodles one maxes at 6X the other two at the rare 7X.) It is rare except for folks springing nibs on Youtube or others selling you a pre-sprung nib for your convenience.

Read Richard's article.

 

I have 6 or so  first stage superflex nibs; Easy Full Flex...most are 5-6 X tine spread. I do have one that goes only 4 X (but it's not the tine spread but it's ease) . Some I didn't even look for they just happened.)

 

The term Weak Kneed Wet Noodle was invented by the English nib grinder John Swoboda.

 

Anne-Sophie

Simplo nib on a pre' 24 MB Safety pen. It doesn't look all that different than normal, no long skinny tines....After it gets back I'll show tine spread....but as you can see, my camera bought back in the day as more than enough...ain't. Got to use my wife's Handie...which is what we call a cell phone in Germany.

 

I'm sending it off for  re-corking and a new snowflake in the morning.

 

My wife was at a street flea market, and having bought something asked if the guy if he had fountain pens or ink wells. He had one that didn't work, he couldn't get the nib out. My wife said her husband would use it for parts. So he went into the house got it and gave it to her for free.

Worked real easy. Twisted right out....but I had experience.....

 With permission of Penboard.de

I have a similar Safety pen with slightly different chasing. A Fendomatic from Milan.

I was at a live auction viewing before the auction, when the following pen was viewed............!@#$%^ The SOB not only stole the gold nib but the feed too!!!!

The lady whom I will not play poker with, twisted the black knob and the nib and feed appeared. Third 'pen' down.

Francis Goossen who re-corked it for me, had to make me a new spindle, in a previous owner glued the broke spindle with superglue and it of course didn't work.

Take great care with superglue...always read in the repair section first. Someone just now, thought o make a simple repair of his snapped off 800 and now the pen don't work.

There are many a sad superglue story.

[DvdRiet]

Ok, so... if my flexy French pen (50s no-name with an 18k Edacoto nib) will easily go to 4x the width of the tip on a downstroke with only moderate pressure, does that make it a superflex by your system? Or possibly a wet noodle if I dared to try and max it maybe?

 

And now I remember the photos! 😉

 

Cheers,

Darla

[Bo Bo Olson]

Darla, Superflex...and superflex is the general category. It depends more on how easy the tines spread than max tine spread. (Though my vast selection of Wet Noodles ... all three of them, do do 6 or 7 X and my Easy Full Flex ones do not do 7 X.

The way which you being careful is a proper and sane way to go at it.

 

I mentions I have 5-6 or so Easy Full Flex nibbed pens. One only goes 4 X...but it is the ease to which it goes there that makes it Easy Full Flex.

Of the others half to one more, do 5 X and a couple do 6 X tine spread....with in their flex rating.

The Wet noodle that does 6 X, flexes 'much' easier than the others in the Easy Full Flex rating.

That 'much' comes with the experence of having a few.

 

Do look at the modern ones with lines cut into the nibs to get Superflex nibs....don't know if they rate Wet Noodle but could....as a cheap and breakable learning tool.

They will probably have more flex than my Ahab Mod (Also called the Pilot Mod in it is the same thing)  ; where half moons ground into the sides of the nib took the Ahab from a hard semi-flex to Easy Full Flex and made it a fun pen....it does have a wide tine spread.....somehow I just don't count that one in my Easy Full Flex pens when I should.

 

[DvdRiet]

Mentioning modern flex pens got me curious about the Marlen Aleph I have with the cut-out fins. So I did the same test and measured everything with callipers. It starts thinner, at around an F, and goes considerably wider with reasonable pressure (let's say safely maxing but not smashing 😉), which I dared because I know the nib is made for it. It flexes to about 7.5x the thin, zero pressure downstroke.

Edited October 12, 2021 by DvdRiet
added model name

[Bo Bo Olson]

That is wide enough....IMO for  a Wet Noodle, but it depends on the ease of flex....and one needs time to learn.

 

My Soennecken nib is in a no name pen, was Wet Noodle and I'd not known it. I thought then, in I had one Easy full flex, perhaps two. It was just a superflex pen. I'd not come up with my system yet.

 

Soennecken was known for having a very flexible nib for longer than MB....into the '50's...and more than semi/maxi-semi-flex that MB had through the '50-70 era...

But as I stated somewhere else....there was a time with 'Flexi' was the only word used, in even superflex wasn't used or seldom used. I knew some Soenneckens had real flexi nibs..........and I was still noobie and I thought E 35** which was over my E-30 border a lot of money to hope for a flexi pen.

I lucked out, and later found out I Really Lucked Out.

** I only had a few semi-flex pens then....a 140 I swapped a fancy pocket knife for, back in the stone age of 13 years ago a Geha 790 semi-flex cosst between 12-19 Euro...(now cheap at E-60.) And a couple cheap no name semi-flex.

 

It wasn't until I got my knowing it was a 7X Wet Noodle Waterman 52** from Manucio....at Vintagepen.net. My second 52 was from him too and was 6X...both as he says a slight tad different.

That was when I discovered my Soennecken nib was a Wet Noodle instead of being 'just' a Superflex.

 

Manucio disagrees with my rating system for superflex, finding it a bit simple and he sells superflex nibbed pens, so has seen many, many, many more than me.

How ever for a noobie  floundering around in unfamiliar territory my system helps. ...It says yes that superflex is a Wet Noodle, or no, it is not.

 

** Not all Waterman 52's are Wet Noodles, some are not even superflex....(from my reading here on the com). I am after all a Waterman 52 Expert...I have two.

 

The real problem by me with Wet Noodles is I still have a slightly heavy Hand. I sweat trying to write with a Wet Noodle at XXF, have to think to write at EF, and so scribble merrily along at F.

[DvdRiet]

I have not used the no-name with the Edacoto nib much because it had serious flow problems every time I tried to use it. The modern Marlen Aleph, by comparison, was much easier to write with. I can write entire letters with it, with only the occasional flow issue if I flex too much too often. It is very bouncy! It did take me a little bit of practice to learn to write with it, and to work with the flow instead of against it, but it's fun to write basically normal cursive but flex on certain letters with nice downstrokes where a thicker line looks great.

 

The difference between it and the vintage Edacoto nib is that the steel nib on the Marlen stays neat when you don't want to flex. The 18k Edacoto is so soft that it lifts as soon as you touch the paper. Hence the flow problems (which I wrongly assumed meant I needed wetter ink). But now that I know what kind of ink to use in it to get a better flow, I'm going to be practicing with it much more! Will report back if it turns out to be a (weak kneed) wet noodle. 😉 

 

I am also naturally more heavy-handed, growing up writing with ballpoints in school. But I'm learning!

 

Cheers,

Darla

[Bo Bo Olson]

1 hour ago, DvdRiet said:

occasional flow issue if I flex too much too often.

Might be called Railroading, a gap of white between two very narrow lines from ink starvation.

 

Have you a semi-flex? A German Pelikan 140/400/400nn or Geha 790 or an Osmia from the '50's. there are others but those can be gotten.

Right no the Geha 790 is still cheap and E60-80.

'59? version with three true rings

To show you the three rings...

 

Torpedo was real in in the '50-60's. Geha 790, Pelikan 140 & 400nn, the MB 146/9 and the Swan.

I'd told everyone to get the 790 since it was the cheapest great pen in the world at E12-15 or even E19....A passed lady complained I was driving up the price....sigh cubed I did.

Best buy for semi-flex is the Geha 790. Best buy for regular flex is the Geha School pen, which can still be found for E12-19. I'd not pay more in more is a rip off.

[Addertooth]

Without writing samples to demonstrate the flex, there is something lost in this thread.  

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Those who can write do, the rest of us talk and scribble.

 

 

Really my one and only fancy letter Capitol L, just won't do....

Actually it would now, wouldn't it.

 

Have to hunt for the best inks of course. Will want a sharp border letter with the outlined little rhombus in the middle of the low crossing area...have good enough papers.

 

As soon as my Weak Kneed Wet Noodle comes back....I'll do each of the nib flex rates in a Fancy L.

 

Those who can...do. Those who can't ... fake it and move quickly along.

So what's the next Fancy Letter I should learn???

 

Laziness has it's points, I spent a good 6 minutes yesterday with a dip pen in my hand, watching some woman make j's.

 

Going to have to get a book on it.

 

The one I have for stiff nib italic writing just won't do....different nibs. For such a book one needs a special high tec chisel and either a leather or rubber handle to break the fossilized dust holding the leaves shut.

 

[Detman101]

[DvdRiet]

1 hour ago, Addertooth said:

Without writing samples to demonstrate the flex, there is something lost in this thread.  

 

 

Oh my! That Eversharp is one fabulous looking pen!!

[DvdRiet]

19 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Might be called Railroading, a gap of white between two very narrow lines from ink starvation.

 

No, not even that. Just plain gone! Done, gone and died, conked out, zero flow. 

I do get railroading on the Marlen Aleph on occasion but with practice, I have managed to reduce that to a minimum. 🙂

[DvdRiet]

Ok, no making fun of the learner's permit here - I've still got my training wheels on!! 😉 

[DvdRiet]

And while I'm at it, a quick review of this Krishna ink: VERY WET 😂

[WalterC]

I have a weak kneed wet noodle, a small sheaffer. I'm not sure how many times X it flexes, but it is very soft. I have a light touch, but it is still hard to write with it because of its soft flex -- for me it is too soft. It is probably more suited to drawing than writing for me, but I really do not draw anymore. I bought it from Frank Dubiel long ago at a Boston Pen Show in Copley Square. 

[Addertooth]

3 hours ago, DvdRiet said:

 

Oh my! That Eversharp is one fabulous looking pen!!

 

Thanks DvdRiet,

The nib is especially likeable in this pen, as it flexes a lot, BUT is not soft.  The Waterman 552 1/v is a different matter; look at it wrong and it flexes. 

I have not developed the dexterity to control flex on really soft nibs, so I get better results with a stiffer flexy nib.  

 

The Eversharp is the ubiquitous Skyline pen, and the sub-model model of "Gold Award".  This one is a bit unusual, as it was made during a wartime brass shortage.  

The rolled gold is over Sterling Silver, and it sports the "less common" Longitudinal lines.  It came in the presentation box with matching mechanical pencil. 

 

As I recall, both pens will go to 3mm without railroading.  

[Bo Bo Olson]

2 hours ago, WalterC said:

I have a weak kneed wet noodle, a small sheaffer. I'm not sure how many times X it flexes, but it is very soft. I have a light touch, but it is still hard to write with it because of its soft flex

I'm glad you have one.!!!...was asking if any had one....and IMO it don't really have to do Olympic splits...just has to be in the middle of the dip pen range for the tine spread it has.

 

Not all dip pens spread super wide nor super easy. My WKWN, is not near Hunt 99-100-101 ease of tine spread.....(And I've starting to ....gasp cubed.....Practice with a dip pen....did 25 or more seconds just yesterday.) I did listen to a woman teach me how to do an i or a j for six minutes. I've a lot of practice for that j.