Help Matching Sepia Colored Ink from TV

[DanHD]

Hello,

I was wondering if you could help me with my quest to find an ink that looks like that in the picture below.

From my limited experience, the range of colors goes

from:

light brown, e.g. the "Berlin" at the lower left

        My closest samples would be Diamine Sepia and Vinta Ochre Fortaleza

to:

medium brown, e.g. the "Sir William..." at the top

        My closest samples would be Taccia Tsucci or Lie de The

 

Diamine Golden Brown was another thought.

 

Background on photo an quest:  My wife and I watch the British Antiques Roadshow and this came on today - a letter from General Montgomery in 1945.  It's funny because I saw a similar colored ink on a letter written in the 1700s on the same show (different episode) recently.  I don't think I have a pen that could do that level of color differentiation.  Maybe it was a flex fountain pen?  Any tips on what combo you would use to get that effect would be much appreciated.

[LizEF]

Check out http://InkSwatch.com - you'll need to "pick up" the colors from the image and get the hex codes for them, then put then in InkSwatch and see what matches it finds.  (Granted, they don't have every ink on the planet (yet), but they've got a lot and the tool is very useful.)

[LizB]

I'd suggest also KWZ Honey, but there are plenty to choose from. A few of them are in this old comparison.  

 

I don't think it looks like a flexible nib - there doesn't seem to my eye to be enough line variation. Just a broadish nib I think.

 

[Tas]

Just looking at my swatches . . .



Good luck : )

[DanHD]

4 hours ago, LizB said:

I'd suggest also KWZ Honey, but there are plenty to choose from. A few of them are in this old comparison.  

 

I don't think it looks like a flexible nib - there doesn't seem to my eye to be enough line variation. Just a broadish nib I think.

 

 

Thanks LizB.  I KWZ Honey is on my list.  That looks pretty close.

[DanHD]

4 hours ago, Tas said:

Just looking at my swatches . . .



Good luck : )

Thanks Tas.  I'm not sure Yama Guri would be a match, but I need to get another sample of it.  It's pretty darned interesting.  Maybe I'll put Golden Brown back into a stub nib and see what that looks like too.

[DanHD]

4 hours ago, LizEF said:

Check out http://InkSwatch.com - you'll need to "pick up" the colors from the image and get the hex codes for them, then put then in InkSwatch and see what matches it finds.  (Granted, they don't have every ink on the planet (yet), but they've got a lot and the tool is very useful.)

Thanks LizEF.  I just played around with InkSwatch.com using the lighter color brand names.  Wow - very cool tool.  I think I can find some samples to keep me busy for quite a while (I'm not sure if this is a good thing 🙂 )

[PithyProlix]

Diamine Desert Burst or, maybe, Tobacco Sunburst come to mind.

[DanHD]

8 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

Diamine Desert Burst or, maybe, Tobacco Sunburst come to mind.

Those look right on PP.  I'm definitely going to try them.  Thanks!

[A Smug Dill]

18 hours ago, DanHD said:

I don't think I have a pen that could do that level of color differentiation.  Maybe it was a flex fountain pen?  Any tips on what combo you would use to get that effect would be much appreciated.

 

There isn't any evident ‘line variation’ along the ductus of each letter to suggest a flex nib was used. The light-toned underline below the addressee's name looks similar in colour to the text in the bottom left corner, and is evidence against the effect being uneven exposure to light (or chemical influence) across the surface area of the face of the envelope over the years. Each line of text seemed to be lighter in tone than the line above it, which suggest a reduction in ink flow (or ‘wetness’) during the course of writing (from top to bottom), with the underline being the last ink mark drawn.

 

Assuming this all came from the same pen writing with the same ink, two possibilities come to mind: either it was a dip pen and everything was written and drawn in one go without dipping the nib partway through, or it was a fountain pen in which ink supply to the feed had ceased, such as due to the ink in the reservoir running out. Furthermore, the ink would be something we come to think of today as a ‘shading’ ink.

 

To attempt to emulate that effect, I'd probably use a pen with a controlled ink flow more typical of Japanese fountain pens, and an ink such as KWZ Ink Aztec Gold IGL. To produce the darker colours, I'd make the ink lines wetter by drawing each pen stroke more slowly (without pushing down much harder).

[TitoThePencilPimp]

Maybe J Herbin Ambre de Birmanie?

[DanHD]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:31 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

There isn't any evident ‘line variation’ along the ductus of each letter to suggest a flex nib was used. The light-toned underline below the addressee's name looks similar in colour to the text in the bottom left corner, and is evidence against the effect being uneven exposure to light (or chemical influence) across the surface area of the face of the envelope over the years. Each line of text seemed to be lighter in tone than the line above it, which suggest a reduction in ink flow (or ‘wetness’) during the course of writing (from top to bottom), with the underline being the last ink mark drawn.

 

Assuming this all came from the same pen writing with the same ink, two possibilities come to mind: either it was a dip pen and everything was written and drawn in one go without dipping the nib partway through, or it was a fountain pen in which ink supply to the feed had ceased, such as due to the ink in the reservoir running out. Furthermore, the ink would be something we come to think of today as a ‘shading’ ink.

 

To attempt to emulate that effect, I'd probably use a pen with a controlled ink flow more typical of Japanese fountain pens, and an ink such as KWZ Ink Aztec Gold IGL. To produce the darker colours, I'd make the ink lines wetter by drawing each pen stroke more slowly (without pushing down much harder).

Thanks A.S. Dill.  I think you're right on with your analysis.  I'll dig up my Aztec Gold sample and try that again too.  

[DanHD]

14 hours ago, TitoThePencilPimp said:

Maybe J Herbin Ambre de Birmanie?

I just ordered a sample of this TTPP (thanks!).  It might be a little light, but I'm on a Herbin roll right now, so regardless this will be a nice one to look at for me.

[Karmachanic]

Robert Oster African Gold/Kobe Taisanji

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/278558-battle-of-the-inks-doppelgaenger-edition/?p=3930029

 

[DanHD]

The closest I've come so far is Lie de The and Taccia Tsuchi.  Here's a photo of Lie de The from a stub nib.

It seems difficult to get that dark with lighter highlights with a lighter ink.  As A.S. Dill mentioned earlier, the variation seems to be more with ink flow (dark going to light with less flow).

 

In my quest, I'm definitely getting more interested in Iron Gall inks.  It seems like KWZ Aztec Gold isn't quite there.  I'm thinking along the lines of what happens to Salix over time but with color this Sepia / light brown.  Any other recommendations on that front?  Thanks in advance..

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, DanHD said:

It seems like KWZ Aztec Gold isn't quite there.  Any other recommendations on that front?

 

Specifically brown-toned iron-gall inks, or just in general?

 

I love the Platinum Classic Ink line (which, notably, does not include a bluish ink), as well as Platinum Blue-Black in the brand's standard inks; the latter is singularly my favourite iron-gall ink.

 

Out of the KWZ Ink IG inks, I have only bought and tried a few, and the only one I like out of those is IG Turquoise for its colour and reasonable level of water resistance.

 

Diamine Registrar's Ink and ESS Registrars Ink are both quite ‘strong’ in iron-gall content and have dry flow. I don't mind them, but I do have reservations about putting them into my good pens, even gold-nibbed ones. The amount of difficult-to-remove precipitate on my Aurora Ipsilon's rhodium-plated gold nib made me think I should never do that again. I'd rather trust Hero 232, which is a perfectly respectable blue-black iron-gall ink, and cheap to boot (if you can find a stockist).

 

 

[DanHD]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Specifically brown-toned iron-gall inks, or just in general?

 

I love the Platinum Classic Ink line (which, notably, does not include a bluish ink), as well as Platinum Blue-Black in the brand's standard inks; the latter is singularly my favourite iron-gall ink.

 

Out of the KWZ Ink IG inks, I have only bought and tried a few, and the only one I like out of those is IG Turquoise for its colour and reasonable level of water resistance.

 

Diamine Registrar's Ink and ESS Registrars Ink are both quite ‘strong’ in iron-gall content and have dry flow. I don't mind them, but I do have reservations about putting them into my good pens, even gold-nibbed ones. The amount of difficult-to-remove precipitate on my Aurora Ipsilon's rhodium-plated gold nib made me think I should never do that again. I'd rather trust Hero 232, which is a perfectly respectable blue-black iron-gall ink, and cheap to boot (if you can find a stockist).

 

 

Yeah, for now I'm concentrating on brown inks in the range of the pictures.  I was thinking of Iron Gall inks in that range.  I'm looking for an "antique" look if that's general enough for you.

 

A.S. Dill, I'm going to come back to your Iron Gall references (thank you) for a more thorough cross-color investigation.

[TitoThePencilPimp]

There is Hakase Sepia. It can write a bit dry. There are two versions light and dark. I forget which is which, but one is meant for small nibs, and the other for larger nibs. By small and larger nibs, I mean ef/f (maybe m Japanese) and m/B/+, respectively. I would never put this ink in a piston filler, only C/C. The ink is a tad expensive. I own three bottles of each, and I am happy with my purchase.

[DanHD]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:38 AM, TitoThePencilPimp said:

There is Hakase Sepia. It can write a bit dry. There are two versions light and dark. I forget which is which, but one is meant for small nibs, and the other for larger nibs. By small and larger nibs, I mean ef/f (maybe m Japanese) and m/B/+, respectively. I would never put this ink in a piston filler, only C/C. The ink is a tad expensive. I own three bottles of each, and I am happy with my purchase.

Thanks TTPP.  I checked it out and although the dark looks interesting, the fact that it's from cuttlefish and $63 a bottle, I can't see doing it.  But more power to you and thanks for sharing.

[DanHD]

I found the page by below by dcpritch that has some great colors and interesting follow-up comments.  Very inspiring.

 

I keep on relearning not to jump to conclusions after one type nib and paper.  I'll clean out a pen, put the sample in the discard pile and then the next day have a nagging feeling and put the same ink into a stub nib and voila!  This hobby takes a lot of patience and diligence. I've got some more samples coming and will report back