Help with stuck piston on a 146

[Emver]

Many thanks for the suggestion.  I'll drop Eric an email.

[gyasko]

3 hours ago, Emver said:

I'm in Warwickshire, England.  If it were a simple piston removal and lubrication then I would agree about finding an independent repair person. But since it appears that the piston removal tool can't be used in this case, it seems likely that some parts could be broken in the process of taking it apart. 

 

 

There is a tool for removing the nib assembly as well.  A repair person will have it.  Even with the right tools, going in the back end is preferable.  

 

What’s far more important is patience.   You’ve made some progress.  Keep at it.  Don’t rush.  This can take weeks.  

 

 

[PAKMAN]

My 146 piston is working but was very stiff. After I rinsed it out, I tried to work it back and forth and it was still very stiff.  Placing my thumb on the feed and curling my fore finger around the nib, I gently turned the pen body with my other hand and the nib spun right out. I ran the piston all the way down and with a tiny bit of pure silicon grease on a tooth pick I went around the top of the piston. I ran it in and out several times and it is now smooth as silk. This worked very well for me, your mileage may vary. If the nib does come out and there is still dried ink in the barrel then it is very easy to clean it out with the nib out of the way. 

[Dione]

Have you considered buying an ultrasonic cleaner and giving it a few whizzes inside there? Otherwise the only people I would get to fix one of my Montblanc pens is Montblanc. I'm unusual in that I prefer to have any brand new parts swapped in at their level one service cost rather than risk waiting for years while trying to find old and used parts and paying significantly more for them from someone else.

[eckiethump]

9 hours ago, Emver said:

Many thanks for the suggestion.  I'll drop Eric an email.

Replying to now. The ultrasonic and heat are good suggestions.

Eric

[Pen Nut]

I have sent you a PM over this issue. 

 

Ian.

 

[Pen Nut]

13 hours ago, gyasko said:

 

 

There is a tool for removing the nib assembly as well.  A repair person will have it.  Even with the right tools, going in the back end is preferable.  

 

What’s far more important is patience.   You’ve made some progress.  Keep at it.  Don’t rush.  This can take weeks.  

 

 

This is one of the nib unit removal tools that I use. Note that this is for the 6.00pm slots not the 2.45pm ones. Think you will get what I mean if you look directly down at the nib tip.

These units are simply not like Pelikan ones and trying to unscrew then by hand is for braver people than me, at what point would you stop trying to turn the pen body ?

 

[CS388]

Great tool.

[como]

Lots of great suggestions here. If OP is desperate and doesn’t want to send the pen somewhere, another consideration would be to sand down the tool a little bit to get it in there. It depends how much is needed. Obviously you don’t want to sand the tool down too much to become unusable or compromise its strength. In the past I had to adjust tools to get certain jobs done but only when it’s last resort (or too eager 😀).

[Dione]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:19 PM, Pen Nut said:

This is one of the nib unit removal tools that I use. Note that this is for the 6.00pm slots not the 2.45pm ones. Think you will get what I mean if you look directly down at the nib tip.

This is a great tool. I've never seen one like it. Mine is flat but the pegs that go into the slots are like pins and I worry they are either so thin they may break off or they will damage the  slots.

[Emver]

Another lack of progress report.

 

I'm ashamed to say that I've given up!    After several days of soaking and quite a few sessions in the ultrasonic cleaner, nothing has changed except that I suddenly noticed that the section end of the pen had turned a bit milky, which certainly frightened me. So at that point I gave up and the pen is now on its way to Pen Nut who seems to have all the tools and is planning to remove the nib and feed, and attack it from that end.  I suspect that I allowed the water in the ultrasonic bath to get too warm.

 

So thank you to all those who offered advice, and especially to Eric Wilson who was patient with me on the phone.

 

I'll post again to let you know how Ian gets on. I really hope he manages to fix it because it's a lovely pen.

 

PS. Has anybody seen the fantastic set of MB 164 Tester Pens he is offering?  eBay item number 274673987503

[lionelc]

no shame in setting limits - better to send away than to break the pen

[Pen Nut]

Just a quick update on this pen. When it arrived I noted that the filler knob didn't have the usual feel of a jammed piston, bit too much movement but anyway I removed the nib unit and looking at the amount of the 'top secret' bubble gum sealant this was the the first time post making that it had been out.

 

I saw at once that the piston was in the completely wrong position in respect of the filler knob. ie the elevator was in the basement not at the penthouse suite.

 

With a little soft 'manipulation' I did manage to coax the piston back into the bore which freed up enough room to allow the tool in below the filler knob and it all came apart revealing the 'c' clip separation from the axis (threaded rod) but thankfully no broken components. The 'c' clip is awkward to refit but tools are available to assist you and you can the 'c' clips as well which is wise investment as they are tiny and if dropped could take some finding. Pictures below show the pen stripped down and the clip (Calm Mike, it is not your cap in the picture !) 

 

To be continued as I have noticed something else ........

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CS388]

Nice work, Pen Nut.

Good luck with the overhaul.

 

I see the milky section, mentioned earlier.

Should polish back up - I'd imagine?

 

 

[Dione]

Good job @Pen Nut   I've never been able to work out how to get the C clips back in. Please can you possibly explain a little more how you did that?

[Emver]

Latest update.

 

 

I've now received my 146 back from Ian (Pen Nut) who has been extremely kind and helpful.

 

As he described in his post above, he managed to get it apart by removing the nib section and gradually working the stuck piston loose until he could get enough movement to unscrew the filling knob enough to insert the special tool to unscrew the complete piston assembly. Unfortunately he then discovered that the inside surface of the barrel is damaged where it was in contact with the piston for such a long period without use (20 years or more, at a guess).  Ian has loosely reassembled the pen and returned it to me, so now I have to decide what to do next.

 

The pen needs a new barrel so I think the best option will be to return it to Mont Blanc.  It seems that it is likely to cost £68, but hopefully they will also replace the grip section which I managed to turn milky in my efforts to get it apart!  Another option would be to find a used barrel but that would risk compatible issues, and that milky grip section would always annoy me. So unless anybody has any other suggestions I'll return it to MB and just hope that the repairs can be covered by the £68 service charge. I did consider selling it as it is and cutting my losses since I have no sentimental attachment to the pen, but it would seem a shame not to fix it properly having come this far.  

 

So thank you again to Pen Nut, and I'll post an update when it comes back from MB, although it sounds as if that will take a while.

[como]

Yes, I would go for the Level One service, replacing both cap and barrel (they usually replace the feed too but here it's not necessary as the feed is ebonite). As some can tell you here, the MB resin doesn't bond well with commercially available adhesive, just go straight for the Level One! If you go directly to a Montblanc boutique, you save shipping cost and get absolutely certainty that it will be done right.

[bunnspecial]

17 minutes ago, como said:

they usually replace the feed too but here it's not necessary as the feed is ebonite).

 

At least on 149s, and I'd assume 146s also, it's my understanding that the current design section will not accept an ebonite feed. Consequently, any repair will be returned with the current plastic feed.

 

It has also been my understanding that this has been a consistent service practice through the years-during any level service the feed is replaced with the then current design. Even though a lot of us prefer ebonite feeds(my favorite 146 and 149 both have them-the former split ebonite, the latter solid grooved ebonite), MB has considered each feed revision an engineering improvement and will always give you the most up to date.

[como]

These plastic feeds with hair thin fins are terrible! I am convinced that they are there as a tamper proof device, in case you try to service your own pen by disassembling the nib and feed. One really needs to be extra careful not to bend the fins.

[Emver]

2 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

 

At least on 149s, and I'd assume 146s also, it's my understanding that the current design section will not accept an ebonite feed. Consequently, any repair will be returned with the current plastic feed.

 

It has also been my understanding that this has been a consistent service practice through the years-during any level service the feed is replaced with the then current design. Even though a lot of us prefer ebonite feeds(my favorite 146 and 149 both have them-the former split ebonite, the latter solid grooved ebonite), MB has considered each feed revision an engineering improvement and will always give you the most up to date.

 

Do you think that I should send a note to MB with the pen asking them to keep the nib and feed if possible?  I don't really care whether the feed is ebonite or plastic -  ebonite is a cheap material so I'm sure MB must have had a good reason to change to plastic.  But my pen is early 1980s (monotone gold nib and made in W Germany rather than Germany) and in excellent original condition including the nib and feed, so it would be nice to keep it original.

If they did replace the feed would they return the original one to me?