Diamine Inkvent (Red edition) Calendar 2021

[Audrey T]

5 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

Yep, art, as @A Smug Dill already said. (You probably mean Nick Stewart nickstewart.ink)

 

And, adding to what A Smug Dill also said, I might say that I do find some inks, especially shading inks, to have another look or rather 'feel' when I write in my sloppy Kurrent (a more slanted form of Sütterlin), as the different movement and rhythm of pressing down and releasing the pressure in this script containing so many long downstrokes does make inks look different than with the much rounder and less accentuated cursive writing or printing I use otherwise. 

You're right -- Nick Stewart. Thank you!

 

You just introduced me to yet another thing to look up (something new on FPN every day!): "my sloppy Kurrent (a more slanted form of Sütterlin)." Thank you!

[Audrey T]

2 minutes ago, Audrey T said:

You're right -- Nick Stewart. Thank you!

 

You just introduced me to yet another thing to look up (something new on FPN every day!): "my sloppy Kurrent (a more slanted form of Sütterlin)." Thank you!

Oh, a modern replacement for Blackletter (or what my family just referred to as "Old German"). Thanks for the language!

[JulieParadise]

10 minutes ago, Audrey T said:

Oh, a modern replacement for Blackletter (or what my family just referred to as "Old German"). Thanks for the language!

Yes, something like that. While Sütterlin was (not so much) invented, or rather: standardized as a cursive script for beginners, having no slant and relations of 1:1:1 descenders below the base line:x-height:ascenders above the x-height, Kurrent ist much more dramatic with its 45°-slant and its relations of 2:1:2 or even 3:1:3. I use it as my main handwriting style (and became equally fast and sloppy with it) for everything no one else needs to be able to decipher. And it is fun to use and nice to look at. Just pretty illegible. 😉 

[Audrey T]

25 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

Yes, something like that. While Sütterlin was (not so much) invented, or rather: standardized as a cursive script for beginners, having no slant and relations of 1:1:1 descenders below the base line:x-height:ascenders above the x-height, Kurrent ist much more dramatic with its 45°-slant and its relations of 2:1:2 or even 3:1:3. I use it as my main handwriting style (and became equally fast and sloppy with it) for everything no one else needs to be able to decipher. And it is fun to use and nice to look at. Just pretty illegible. 😉 

I was only six when we moved from Germany to Switzerland, but much later my mother took university literature courses in German, and had to read some of the work in Blackletter. So hard challenging!

 

That's lovely, precise information -- thank you!

[Audrey T]

13 hours ago, Audrey T said:

Those are indeed very cool, powerful images. Fun and engaging.

 

Some of the swabs are pretty different from what I got from the 25 bottles, though -- is it because she is adding something to the ink in some cases ? -- not just drops of water, but ...? I'm thinking of the Black Ivy ink sample, in particular. Could she be using bleach, for example? (I know at least one blogger tests ink with bleach -- among other things -- but I'm not sure why. Could anyone clarify that for me, while I'm on the topic?)

Now that I know that bleach is used strictly for artistic purposes ;-), is anyone able to say whether they think that susiegstudio used anything other than water to play with her inks...?

[Audrey T]

Yesterday, I had missed where susiegstudio said, at the end of this post https://susiegstudio.com/2021/12/22/day-22-oh-my-its-black-ivy/

that she had added water. She doesn't specify that she added anything else, but she arrived at rather different colors than I did. (The paper I used was Tomoe 52g.) So intriguing, the colors she got, including bright Kelly green, which I didn't encounter at all, as well as a watery blue teal (which may be due to a difference in cameras). My unwatered sample (bottom swab) is dark greenish teal; the upper swab, with a heavy drop of water, is a lighter greenish teal. On both, you can see a strong sheen. In the first photo, taken in natural light through the window [however, it's a dull, grey day], the sheen appears a dark, purplish red. In the other two photos (using strong kitchen overhead light), the sheen is a pronounced copper.

 

I suppose a number of factors must enter into the different color values that ink sampling can show -- camera, water, of course, but light (& angle), paper, spilt or dropped ink vs cotton swabbed, brushed, or otherwise applied.... Still trying to figure all that out.

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, Licue said:

But I'd think western style writing IS representative of the majority of FPN users, isn't it?

 

I'd say, given the primary — and practically only — language of communication on FPN is English, just about everyone here can read and write (as in composing textual content) in English, and so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that just about everyone has the capability, and will have occasion, to write in English by hand with a fountain pen; that much is common to FPN users, in addition to having an interest in the acquisition (for one's personal collection or for trade) and use of fountain pens.

 

My point, though, is:

1. Writing does not imply writing in a language that uses a Latin-based alphabet, and English is just one of those languages. So, even if the particular FPN member only ever writes in English with a fountain pen, and that is where his/her interest (in how an ink presents on paper) lies, it does not follow that it ought to be someone else's sole or primary focus. In fact, I think it is a better product review for someone to present writing samples in four or more languages with markedly different writing systems, of which English (or some other Latin-based European language) is just one, and within coverage but only as a small/minority part of the entire body of the writings samples. If a reader wants to get an idea of how his/her majuscule ‘A’ would look with that ink, I think he/she should be looking for matching component pen strokes in the writing sample, irrespective of the writing system in which they appear. At the end of the day, every written language is expressed in assemblies of lines and shapes to which the reader then assigns meaning by pattern recognition.
2. Writing — even if the focus is only on a language that uses a Latin-based alphabet, notwithstanding that there are also cursive forms of Chinese and Japanese writing, for example — does not imply a cursive hand, and a cursive hand does not imply some purportedly ‘American’ script or style such as Palmer or Spencerian. What some users seem keen to label as ‘printing’, and deliberately exclude from their narrative of what constitutes writing, is still writing with a pen as practised by millions of pen users globally, including in Western nations where English is the primary or at least a commonly used language. In fact, I'd venture that more pen users write in English with each majuscule and minuscule distinct from one another to form words.
3. Writing is not the only application of putting ink on paper using a fountain pen.

It's perfectly legitimate for one to have a very narrow and/or specialised interest — say, ‘American’ cursive script — but that ought to be understood to be a minority interest, and no surprise or affront when treated as such, instead of something mainstream or representative of the community of fountain pen users.

 

I can't produce Spencerian writing, even though I have the books but was never actually keen enough to begin practising; but, if I could, in my view it should noticeably occupy <10% of the writing sample volume, eclipsed by (without being buried under) other writing samples in formal Italic; ‘monoline’ cursive with different slants; my normal semi-cursive handwriting; child-like ‘printing’ sans serifs and flourishes; Chinese in kaishu script; (badly written?) basic Japanese kana and kanji (since I don't actually understand Japanese, but have learnt the kana ‘alphabet’ as a teenager); and so on, that is within my capability to produce. That is its ‘place’ as a minority interest to which a reviewer may choose to give a nod.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I also treat writing in Chinese (and with Chinese sensibilities) as a minority interest, even though it's a sizeable and significant minority. No single interest — other than perhaps writing in general, as opposed to drawing — can claim being the majority in the global landscape of fountain pen use, and demand pride of place as such. Treating everything as less than representative or dominant, and clearly communicating that view, is, to me, how best to deal with everybody in a shared or common arena. That includes my own views, preferences and practices, of course.

[dftr]

16 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

Yep, art, as @A Smug Dill already said. (You probably mean Nick Stewart nickstewart.ink)

 

And, adding to what A Smug Dill also said, I might say that I do find some inks, especially shading inks, to have another look or rather 'feel' when I write in my sloppy Kurrent (a more slanted form of Sütterlin), as the different movement and rhythm of pressing down and releasing the pressure in this script containing so many long downstrokes does make inks look different than with the much rounder and less accentuated cursive writing or printing I use otherwise. 

I had to look up Kurrent and Sutterlin.  It's neat; it looks like elven writing!  I may try to learn it as a secret code   It looks like it doesn't need special nib?

[A Smug Dill]

How many of you are keeping the massive red advent calendar housing? I'd discarded ours before the year was out; it was just too unwieldy and too up too much space. Hence came the task of finding some other means of housing them (preferably together), but all of the boxes I already had were just not nearly the right fit, with most of them being too large, especially given how short the 12ml bottles stand.

 

I took all 25 bottles with me to Daiso today, and found this:

[JulieParadise]

4 hours ago, dftr said:

I had to look up Kurrent and Sutterlin.  It's neat; it looks like elven writing!  I may try to learn it as a secret code   It looks like it doesn't need special nib?

Yeah, secret it is, even to me. (Some of my own writing is hard to decipher even for myself, but since I do not write to re-read but to spill out the rumbles in my head, it does not matter.) 

 

Kurrent writing (if you do not want to produce the most beautiful show pieces) does not need a special nib, but I found narrow stubs and fine nibs nice to use, even more so when the fine nibs do have some bounce/flexibility or when the stubby character is pronounced, as this gives some nice line variation in round strokes or at the end of long downstrokes.

 

That would be an example of a (medium) fine stub (ground from a round medium Capless nib):

Stub/italic, ca. 0.8 mm wide:

And this example was written with a flexible fine stub (OMAS Extra Desk Pen, I got it from penboard.de / Tom Westerich, originally the nib was a flexy fine, but I flattened the tip to give it a stubby character and some line sidestroke-to-upstroke line variation beyond its flexing capabilities):

 

[brokenclay]

8 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

Kurrent writing (if you do not want to produce the most beautiful show pieces) does not need a special nib, but I found narrow stubs and fine nibs nice to use, even more so when the fine nibs do have some bounce/flexibility or when the stubby character is pronounced, as this gives some nice line variation in round strokes or at the end of long downstrokes.

 

Agreed. Margarete Mücke, who created the website http://www.kurrent-lernen-muecke.de to teach Kurrentschrift, recommends a fountain pen or a dip pen, and specifically warns against ball point pens.

 

I only use Kurrent when writing in German; the letter combinations found in other languages do not lend themselves to Kurrent, IMHO (which is why German schools taught Kurrentschrift for German and Lateinschrift (Latin script) for other languages).

[Audrey T]

She's either an onion dancing girl with crossed legs or ankles, or a cubist Patchwork Girl of Oz... 😉

 

Red Robin, on Tomoe 52g & on Col-o-ring

 

 

 

 

[Ted A]

19 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

How many of you are keeping the massive red advent calendar housing? I'd discarded ours before the year was out; it was just too unwieldy and too up too much space. Hence came the task of finding some other means of housing them (preferably together), but all of the boxes I already had were just not nearly the right fit, with most of them being too large, especially given how short the 12ml bottles stand.

 

I took all 25 bottles with me to Daiso today, and found this:

 

So close. If it had been 25 days you would have an absolutely perfect fit.

[TSherbs]

@JulieParadise Very nice variation in that lettering with those fine stubs. 

[essayfaire]

17 hours ago, Audrey T said:

She's either an onion dancing girl with crossed legs or ankles, or a cubist Patchwork Girl of Oz..

Looks like a demented cellist to me!

On 1/5/2022 at 2:14 AM, A Smug Dill said:

How many of you are keeping the massive red advent calendar housing?

I am; I still have the housing to the blue set as well.  I keep hoping that one year Diamine will sell a set of new inks to place into the old housing, like the permanent Advent calendars of yore that households would fill themselves.  

[A Smug Dill]

5 minutes ago, essayfaire said:

I keep hoping that one year Diamine will sell a set of new inks to place into the old housing, like the permanent Advent calendars of yore that households would fill themselves.  

 

I don't see how that would be more profitable for Diamine. You probably wouldn't pay nearly the same price for a bare set of the 25 bottles of ink without the cardboard, as you would the original product complete with perforated-but-yet-to-be-unsealed doors on the product housing and a corrugated shipping carton made to fit around the it perfectly. It'd be far more sensible for Diamine to release an Inkvent Green Edition in 2023, after releasing the 25 Red Edition ink colours in ‘full-sized’ ≥40ml‡ bottles in 2022, so that those who want just one, more, or all of the specific inks in that edition can buy it in bulk. Those who want 25 other ink colours can choose from hundreds of already available Diamine ink colours to refill the bottles with whatever they fancy, in the meantime. Everyone else will just pay for the convenience (of having properly sealed and labelled new small bottles of ink, instead of having to either sourcing new empty bottles, or cleaning and relabelling the old ones), novelty (of 25 Diamine inks not previously available, known or reviewed), and fun (of breaking the seal on a new door every day leading up to Christmas) of a brand new one.

 

I really see no compelling reason for Diamine to issue new sets of Inkvent ink, unless it moves to a business model in which it produces and sells durable, resealable, and commensurately (expensive and) profitable advent calendar housings, instead of relying solely on the consumable component as the major driver of profit, and ‘giving away’ the fixed component at a low or nominal cost (included in the total price of the initial purchase), cf. selling printers cheaply and relying on sales of ‘original’ toner cartridges to bring in the profit. You (and other customers) have already got the old cardboard advent calendar housings, and that makes it less of a business reason to sell refill sets, if you aren't prepared to toss them out, start all over, and pay £50+ for just a new, designed-for-purpose housing in solid plastic, or suitably finished MDF board, that is durable (and heavy, and costly to ship), even if both you and Diamine agree there is a concern about reducing waste at the end of each year; you as the consumer need to pay the price for the ‘green’ initiative upfront, without compromising the manufacturer's profit margins.

[Audrey T]

2 hours ago, essayfaire said:

Looks like a demented cellist to me!

I am; I still have the housing to the blue set as well.  I keep hoping that one year Diamine will sell a set of new inks to place into the old housing, like the permanent Advent calendars of yore that households would fill themselves.  

"Demented cellist" is great -- I've always wanted one of those!

I didn't keep the housing for my inkvent calendar, though I did take photos of it in various stages of undress.

[Audrey T]

20 hours ago, Ted A said:

 

So close. If it had been 25 days you would have an absolutely perfect fit.

Very satisfying! I'm keeping my 12-oz bottles in a couple of 0.7L "Really Useful Boxes."

[essayfaire]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

I really see no compelling reason for Diamine to issue new sets of Inkvent ink,

You forget about the premium people will pay if they believe they are being "greener."  Less housing means Diamine can market themselves as more eco-responsible, etc., especially since inks are used with fountain pens, a non-disposable product. 

 

They could always pack the bottles in such a way that the color was hidden as we placed them into the calendars.  This would also leave less of a shipping footprint, perhaps.  When my box showed up this time via post, it seemed obscenely large given the size of the calendar inside.  I think all the stores just packaged the packaging.  

 

Picture it: Choice between new Inkvent and refill set.  Same price for each.  Consumers get the option.  Win/win.

[A Smug Dill]

5 minutes ago, essayfaire said:

You forget about the premium people will pay if they believe they are being "greener."

 

There's a difference between forgetting, and not believing it to be true or applicable to the majority within a target market/segment.