Comparison of Pilot Elite nibs

[troglokev]

A long time ago, Ron Dutcher posted A Field Guide to Japanese Nibs in this forum. It is an excellent article, and if you haven't seen it, you should read it.

 

I have some, but not all, and I thought people might be interested in a comparison of the nibs in use.

 

 

Fine nib:

 

Soft Fine nib:

 

Posting nib:

 

Script Nib:

 

Manifold nib:

 

Coarse nib:

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

Wow! I've never seen an SF or Posting nib on a Pilot Elite. Thanks for doing and sharing all that! Great work. 👍

[Aether]

Posting nibs have been around a long time.  In the West they were commonly used for entries on ledger sheets.  It's not really a Japanese thing, although the downturned version may be.  Posting nibs from early US and European makers do not have a downturned nib, and if you go back more furtherer then you can found dip pens that are designated as posting nibs that are stiff and straight.

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, Aether said:

Posting nibs have been around a long time.  In the West they were commonly used for entries on ledger sheets.

 

That may be so, but I have never seen a Posting nib on any modern, currently in-production ‘Western’ fountain pen, and I've been watching and buying (many) pens in that market for several years now. Only Pilot seems to still be making and selling them, and only for its Custom product line and not the Elite line.

[hari317]

7 hours ago, troglokev said:

A long time ago, Ron Dutcher posted A Field Guide to Japanese Nibs in this forum. It is an excellent article, and if you haven't seen it, you should read it.

 

I have some, but not all, and I thought people might be interested in a comparison of the nibs in use.

 

 

Fine nib:

 

Soft Fine nib:

 

Posting nib:

 

Script Nib:

 

Manifold nib:

 

Coarse nib:

 

 

Lovely post. Good to hear from you again. 

[Aether]

5 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

That may be so, but I have never seen a Posting nib on any modern, currently in-production ‘Western’ fountain pen, and I've been watching and buying (many) pens in that market for several years now. Only Pilot seems to still be making and selling them, and only for its Custom product line and not the Elite line.

 

Irrelevant. I was talking about the history of the posting nib. They predate japanese fountain pens by some margin.   But as I wrote the downward curved nib may be a japanese idea, tho there are many dip nibs that have a downward curve.

[A Smug Dill]

46 minutes ago, Aether said:

Irrelevant. I was talking about the history of the posting nib. They predate japanese fountain pens by some margin.

 

I'm inclined to question first the relevance of that to a show-and-tell, and/or comparison, of Pilot Elite nibs.

 

But please don't let me stop you from visiting a gun enthusiast forum to remind everyone that it was the Chinese that invented gunpowder.

 

[Aether]

Of course you are so inclined, I expect nothing less from you.  My point stands though because it was in reply to the OP in which, in the handwritten portion, it states (and I quote) - 'The posting nib was developed for writing in Japanese on cheap postcards made of poor quality, fibrous card'.  History shows that posting pens - even called that - existed before the Japanese version.  As a point of accuracy this needs to be understood, not glossed over.  There tends to be no modern Western equivalent because, firstly, writing on ledger sheets is no longer really done, and secondly, the number of Westerners who write with a fountain pen on a postcard is likely vanishingly small - ergo there is really no market for a special nib.  'sides which we can buy a Japanese PO nib now, if we are so inclined.

[PithyProlix]

9 hours ago, troglokev said:

A long time ago, Ron Dutcher posted A Field Guide to Japanese Nibs in this forum. It is an excellent article, and if you haven't seen it, you should read it.

 

I agree, it is an excellent article and I believe I have referred to it more than any other article on FPN.

 

9 hours ago, troglokev said:

I have some, but not all, and I thought people might be interested in a comparison of the nibs in use.

 

I have an 18k soft fine that is earlier - marked "SOFT" (i.e. not "SOFT FINE" or "SF") - and, comparing to your picture, the nib design might be slightly different but it's hard to be sure. On yours the 'edge' of the nib appears to have a slight curve to the point (if you look at your F you will see a relatively straight profile) - it looks straighter on mine. Other than that (and the imprinting, of course) everything seems to be the same, including the design of the section where it meets the nib. Anyhow, the line width of your SF appears to be wider than mine though it may be the ink you are using, your pen is wetter flowing, or that I write with a lighter hand. It's cleaned out right now and waiting to be filled with some ink that will hopefully arrive in the mail in the next few days - when I get it inked I will try to post pictures of the nib and some sample writing.

[PithyProlix]

Sorry! Meant to thank you for your wonderful post!

[troglokev]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:01 PM, PithyProlix said:

I have an 18k soft fine that is earlier - marked "SOFT" (i.e. not "SOFT FINE" or "SF") - and, comparing to your picture, the nib design might be slightly different but it's hard to be sure. On yours the 'edge' of the nib appears to have a slight curve to the point (if you look at your F you will see a relatively straight profile) - it looks straighter on mine. Other than that (and the imprinting, of course) everything seems to be the same, including the design of the section where it meets the nib. Anyhow, the line width of your SF appears to be wider than mine though it may be the ink you are using, your pen is wetter flowing, or that I write with a lighter hand. It's cleaned out right now and waiting to be filled with some ink that will hopefully arrive in the mail in the next few days - when I get it inked I will try to post pictures of the nib and some sample writing.

Yes, I've seen those, out and about. I haven't picked one up yet, though.

With regard to the writing sample, I was bearing down on the down strokes, to bring out the variation in the second sentence (starting "some variation is available..."). The normal width is much the same as the normal fine.

I'm glad you liked the post!

[ethernautrix]

Kev! Long time no read!

 

What a great comparison you've provided -- thank you!

 

The PO nib is my all-time favorite -- but I have only the modern 912 and 743 versions.

[troglokev]

It's been too long, I admit.

The PO might even work on Moleskine. It works on 葉書 just fine.

[ethernautrix]

54 minutes ago, troglokev said:

The PO might even work on Moleskine.

 

I can vouch for that!

 

The PO nib and Noodler's Bulletproof Black ink can overcome any paper. I mean, paper that is usually written on, not cleaning up types of paper. 

[Anne-Sophie]

On this list, I do not see the FA nib that inkyelbows has posted on her blog post: "  How I Feel About My Pilot Custom 823 (Fa Nib) Right Now"

 

What width would that be?

[Karmachanic]

@troglokev Please tell us the line with of the paper shown.  Thank you.

[Karmachanic]

2 hours ago, Anne-Sophie said:

On this list, I do not see the FA nib that inkyelbows has posted on her blog post: "  How I Feel About My Pilot Custom 823 (Fa Nib) Right Now"

 

 

Maybe cuz the Pilot Custom 823 pen is not a Pilot Elite pen, and Pilot Elite pens don't come with an FA nib?

[liubrian]

I really doubt the whole "posting nibs are for postcards with poor paper quality"  story.  It always seems like the source goes back to Ron Dutcher's guide, and while I'm sure he's forgotten about more pens than I've ever seen or will see, it does bug me a little that there's no primary source for this explanation from any Pilot material, or even any secondary source in Japanese.

 

I've attached a scan of the leaflet that came with my 1938 Pilot vacuum-filling (P-shiki) balance pen.  The description of the posting nib is in the upper right of the first page.  My Japanese isn't good enough to translate the whole passage, but I can read enough kana and kanji to be reasonably certain there's no mention of postcards here - the phrase 記帖 doesn't seem to appear in Japanese or Chinese dictionaries, but adjacent to 筆記 I'd think it's something to do with note-taking.  The passage goes on to mention use by 實務家 (which doesn't seem to be a commonly used phrase today but Weblio gives as "practitioner" or "businessman") and students.

 

A Pilot postcard from the Elite era (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x795247746) simply describes the posting nib as extra fine, though in fairness all the descriptions are brief.  For reference, the five nib types listed here are:

 

"Posting (Extra Fine)

Soft (Fine - Soft)

Script (Fine - Hard)

Manifold (Medium - Hard)

Coarse (Broad)"

 

The modern Pilot description of the posting nib also doesn't mention postcards: https://www.pilot.co.jp/library/001/pentopList.php

 

I also bungled my way through some Japanese blogs with the help of Google Translate and haven't found any mention of the postcard explanation.

 

While there's equally no direct proof that Pilot posting nibs were intended to be equivalent to posting nibs elsewhere (ie referring to posting in the accounting ledger sense), the fact that posting nibs did exist for accounting purposes, and that they share similar writing characteristics to Pilot posting nibs, leads me to think that in the absence of any word from Pilot, it's more likely that Pilot posting nibs were meant for accounting purposes (as with other posting nibs), rather than for writing on cheap postcards.

P-shiki.pdf

[ethernautrix]

2 hours ago, liubrian said:

I really doubt the whole "posting nibs are for postcards with poor paper quality"  story. 

 

Interesting! 

 

I never questioned the PO story, but the story didn't influence my trying the nib. Huh. Maybe it did, the part about writing on cheap paper without grabbing the paper's fibers. Plus all the positive opinions shared here (fpn).

 

Maybe posting refers to posting numbers (amounts) in accounting?

 

It's my favorite nib, so it could be called "hook" or "claw" or some absurd name, and it would still be my favorite (a nib by any other name, with a nod to the bard).

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, ethernautrix said:

It's my favorite nib, so it could be called "hook" or "claw" or some absurd name, and it would still be my favorite (a nib by any other name, with a nod to the bard).

 

Perhaps some users only familiar with ‘Western’ pens may mistakenly think the Posting nibs on their new(-to-them) Pilot pens were damaged in transit or dropped onto the floor by the seller, and are PO'ed when they see the bent nib tips?