Pilot Heritage 91 vs Sailor Pro Gear Slim

[collectorofmanythings]

My first-gold nib pen was a Sailor Pro Gear Slim Mini, which has the exact same 14k nib as the Sailor Pro Gear Slim. It’s glorious! I love it. It has a good amount of feedback though, and I know that Pilot’s nibs are typically smoother, so you would have to go with your preference on that. But I can tell you that I absolutely adore the 14k nib on the Sailor Pro Gear Slim (and P.G. Slim Mini, and the 1911S).

[AJ20]

22 hours ago, Daosus said:

Another pen you might consider is the Pilot Custom 92.  There are some differences between that and the 91:  the pen comes in 3 transucent colors.  The gray is dark but not opaque.  You'd have to be OK with that.  It also has a more limited nib selection.  On the plus side, the nib, section, barrel diameter and length are identical to the 91, and it's a piston filler.  I don't know where you're planning on getting the pen, but it might end up costing about the same as a 91 or PGS.

@Daosus Thank you for your suggestion. I know Custom 92 is a good pen, but it’s also a demonstrator. I am not a huge fan of demonstrators. The only exception to this is Pilot Custom 823 (particularly in Amber), which is a very elegant pen in that category.  

[AJ20]

17 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

My first-gold nib pen was a Sailor Pro Gear Slim Mini, which has the exact same 14k nib as the Sailor Pro Gear Slim. It’s glorious! I love it. It has a good amount of feedback though, and I know that Pilot’s nibs are typically smoother, so you would have to go with your preference on that. But I can tell you that I absolutely adore the 14k nib on the Sailor Pro Gear Slim (and P.G. Slim Mini, and the 1911S).

@collectorofmanythingsThanks for sharing your experience with P.G.S. I am with you on how great Sailor pens are. It’s a tough choice between Pilot and Sailor. I guess one ends up owning both in the end. 😄

[AJ20]

On 7/4/2021 at 10:25 PM, KLscribbler said:

Oh, a couple more things which might be worth considering:

- If seeking a more minimalist aesthetic: you may not like the nice shiny anchor emblem on the flat cap top of the Pro Gear Slim. It's not huge or garish by any means, it's quite elegant looking really, but it does make the top of the pen more eye-catching than the plain, polished finial of the Custom 91.

- @AJ20, you mention that you have mostly used medium nibs but now you would like a fine. In that case, if you choose the Pilot, do be aware that there is notably big line width difference between Pilot 14k Fine and Medium. Standard #5 Pilot 14k F nibs such as the ones you would get on a Custom Heritage 91 are quite typical Japanese fines, significantly finer than most F nibs we would get from, say, Kaweco or Lamy or Pelikan. Sailor fines are also typical Japanese fines. But when it comes to M nibs, Pilot's 14k mediums run a good deal broader than Sailor or Platinum. Additionally, because the Pilot 14k #5 M (even more so the SM) nibs tend to be quite wet writers, this greater width is augmented. Depending on the behaviour of the individual nib you get and the kind of ink you use, some of these Pilot mediums could approach Western medium in apparent line width on paper. My own Custom Heritage 91 has a luscious wet SM nib that is hardly distinguishable in line width from my Lamy M nibbed pens (and I like that, but if you are seeking a finer line, you might not like that).

Therefore, if your desired line width is Western Fine (i.e. something like a Lamy fine or a Kaweco fine), then it might be better to get the Pilot in Fine-Medium (FM) or Soft Fine Medium (SFM) rather than the actual Mediums.

@KLscribblerThanks! You made some very valid points, particularly about nib types. I am looking for a pen that lays a finer line as my experience has mostly been writing with western medium nibs, which make a generously wet and broad line. So moving to a fine nib will be a better option.
 

What do you think of a Pilot Soft Fine (SF) nib?  I think it will create a finer line while not being too scratchy. Ease of writing with a fine nib is another criterion for me. I am not sure if I will like a very toothy fine nib. With most western mediums, you need to very carefully select your paper and ink as they can lead to bleeding and feathering when used with certain paper and ink combinations. 
 

Also, to your earlier point about the aesthetic aspect, I like Sailor’s design language. The anchor on the finial looks classy and the step design on the clip is great too. Pilot Custom 91 has its own understated elegance and charm. It all comes down to a fine balance between form and functionality. Wouldn’t you agree? Many thanks!  🙏🏼

[Ste_S]

Why not also consider the Platinum #3776 ?

[collectorofmanythings]

2 hours ago, AJ20 said:

 I guess one ends up owning both in the end. 😄

That’s what often happened when one is having a very difficult time deciding between two pens  

[AJ20]

15 hours ago, Ste_S said:

Why not also consider the Platinum #3776 ?

That's another good one among the 3 Japanese greats. Thanks!  

[sirgilbert357]

I only read page one, so forgive me if this isn't helpful or is echoing what others have said, but:

 

Sailor's nibs DO have a different feel, but you can tune some of that out of them if you want. I have done so on my 1911L Stormy Sea and it writes with less "pencil on paper" feel than it did out of the box.

 

Someone said Pilot has more nib choices (overall, not on a given model)?? I would be surprised if that's true. Sailor has specialized nibs that no one else offers on regular pens. I don't think the OP is looking for those nibs, but I felt it worth mentioning...

 

I have experience with all of Pilot's various converters and they all work fine. My favorite is the CON-70. Sailor's converters work fine too, although they hold less ink than some of the Pilot offerings. However, with Sailor, you can always use an empty ink cartridge for more capacity -- just refill it with the ink of your choice using a blunt tipped syringe. I used one of Pilot's normal cartridges for two years in a Decimo and it never leaked or gave me any issues. They are remarkably resilient. I can't speak to Sailor's cartridges over a longer time period -- I just use the converter at this point. Either way, the longer I've been in this "hobby", the less I let the filling system or converter choice dictate my willingness to purchase a pen. I have grown to like them all and appreciate their differences. Nothing is a deal breaker at this point. I'd encourage anyone new to the "hobby" to keep an open mind, as I wish I had received similar advice during my "it MUST be a piston filler or I won't buy it" phase...I missed some good deals on nice pens over that mentality.

 

Right now, I've got the Sailor 1911L with a broad nib, a Pilot 823 broad, and a Pilot 912 soft medium. I've had a medium nib Decimo in the past and used a medium nib Vanishing Point/Capless too. I've also used a Metropolitan and had two different 78G's (one medium, one broad).

 

Considerably less Sailor exposure than Pilot, obviously, but there you have it. For what it's worth, I think the 78G is one of the best pens I've ever owned. The nib on that pen was absolutely FANTASTIC. I can't believe I got rid of it. It was perfectly smooth and had no tooth at all. It being a Pilot medium, though, it put down a finer line than I wanted....so I moved it on. I regret that now. Tastes change, after all and I think I'd be using it more at this point than I thought. I still mostly prefer thicker mediums and broads, but I like a finer line sometimes and that 78G was flawless...

[KLscribbler]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:55 AM, AJ20 said:

What do you think of a Pilot Soft Fine (SF) nib?  I think it will create a finer line while not being too scratchy. Ease of writing with a fine nib is another criterion for me. I am not sure if I will like a very toothy fine nib. With most western mediums, you need to very carefully select your paper and ink as they can lead to bleeding and feathering when used with certain paper and ink combinations.

Well, I'm probably the wrong person to describe the character of that nib at length, because my personal preferences lean heavily towards mediums/broads/stubs, and thus my personal pens mostly do not go finer than Western Fine/Japanese Medium. The few exceptions are vintage pens , and while I do have some nice (semi)vintage Pilot fines from the 1970s, they are not similar enough in writing characteristics to the current Pilot Custom nibs so I cannot generalise.

That said... (and bear in mind this description is based on only a few occasions of writing with other people's SF nibs, in friends' pens and shop tester pens) Pilot's regular fine actually feels a bit smoother than the soft fine. However, the soft fine has a more "cushioned" writing feel. Another thing I found interesting with the few Soft Fines I've written with is that the soft fine isn't hugely wetter than the regular fine. This is different from my experiences with the mediums, where the soft mediums are significantly wetter than the regular mediums (mine are like that, anyway). Overall I would describe the regular fine as a smooth and precise nib, whereas the soft fine is a satiny cushioned ride.

You might also want to consider how you will be using this pen. If you will sometimes be writing on-the-go and on unstable surfaces (notepad propped up on your lap, legal pad at the edge of a cluttered sit-stand work station and so on) then the regular fine might be a better option, as the soft nibs are really best enjoyed sitting down and writing on a proper desk.

[Olya]

I made the comment that Pilot has more nib choices.

 

Across the board I don't know which company has more (I think Pilot likely on standard models (eg ef-bb [/c] (soft and hard) + wa + stub + music for Pilot, whereas Sailor has ef-b (hard only) + music + zoom), but Sailor probably more when taking specialized grinds into account), but on the specifically asked for models (CH91 vs PGS) Pilot likely has Sailor beat, depending on which colour OP wants exactly and where OP's buying.

 

The black 91 has ef-bb (+soft nibs), blue and orange are f-b.

Comparatively Sailor PGS black and white come in ef-b (hard only) + music + zoom, whilst some models come in MF only (eg Shikiori/Fairytale) or a limited choice (availabilty also depends on purchase location, i.e. buy from Japan or elsewhere).

 

So it's colour and and location dependent, but Pilot is more consistent across the 91 model (sold in Japan or abroad), whereas Sailor offers nib sizes for the PGS based on I don't even know what.

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, Olya said:

but on the specifically asked for models (CH91 vs PGS) Pilot likely has Sailor beat,

 

That is correct.  The Pilot Custom Heritage 91 comes with these eight nib options out of what Pilot makes:

EF, F, SF, FM, SFM, M, SM, B, and BB

whereas the Sailor Professional Gear Slim comes with seven standard nib options:

EF, F, MF, M, B, Z, and MS

 

8 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

Someone said Pilot has more nib choices (overall, not on a given model)?? I would be surprised if that's true. Sailor has specialized nibs that no one else offers on regular pens.

 

The Pilot Custom Heritage 912, which is also a ‘standard’ model in the current product line-up and quite common among Pilot pen users, has the full range of fifteen nib options for the Custom line. If you want to count across models, the Pilot Elabo (aka Falcon) has SEF and SB nibs that are outside of the list of fifteen; and its SF and SM nibs are different from the Custom line's SF and SM nibs, so that makes at least seventeen if not nineteen.

 

Whereas, in its current line-up, Sailor only has seven standard and seven Naginata specialty nib options, making a total of fourteen.

[AJ20]

15 hours ago, KLscribbler said:

That said... (and bear in mind this description is based on only a few occasions of writing with other people's SF nibs, in friends' pens and shop tester pens) Pilot's regular fine actually feels a bit smoother than the soft fine. However, the soft fine has a more "cushioned" writing feel. Another thing I found interesting with the few Soft Fines I've written with is that the soft fine isn't hugely wetter than the regular fine. This is different from my experiences with the mediums, where the soft mediums are significantly wetter than the regular mediums (mine are like that, anyway). Overall I would describe the regular fine as a smooth and precise nib, whereas the soft fine is a satiny cushioned ride.

@KLscribblerThanks for your inputs. This helps!  

[AJ20]

19 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

Either way, the longer I've been in this "hobby", the less I let the filling system or converter choice dictate my willingness to purchase a pen. I have grown to like them all and appreciate their differences. Nothing is a deal breaker at this point. I'd encourage anyone new to the "hobby" to keep an open mind, as I wish I had received similar advice during my "it MUST be a piston filler or I won't buy it" phase...I missed some good deals on nice pens over that mentality.

@sirgilbert357It's interesting what you said there. I agree with you. Pens like other things push different buttons for different people.  Just like other people, for me, it's a combination of many things that make me consider buying a pen. I am sure we all have made rookie mistakes at some point or the other.

I would like to refrain from hoarding pens and just keep enough that could be used well in rotation. It's very easy to overstep the boundary and find yourself with just too many pens one day. I see myself keeping two solid gold-nib pens (preferably with M and F nibs) that could be used regularly. I have known people enjoying some basic pens with nothing fancy about them, just because they evoke special memories or push the right kind of buttons for them.  Having said that, I would like to approach it with an open mind. 

 

Thanks for sharing your perspective.  🙏

[sirgilbert357]

2 hours ago, AJ20 said:

@sirgilbert357It's interesting what you said there. I agree with you. Pens like other things push different buttons for different people.  Just like other people, for me, it's a combination of many things that make me consider buying a pen. I am sure we all have made rookie mistakes at some point or the other.

I would like to refrain from hoarding pens and just keep enough that could be used well in rotation. It's very easy to overstep the boundary and find yourself with just too many pens one day. I see myself keeping two solid gold-nib pens (preferably with M and F nibs) that could be used regularly. I have known people enjoying some basic pens with nothing fancy about them, just because they evoke special memories or push the right kind of buttons for them.  Having said that, I would like to approach it with an open mind. 

 

Thanks for sharing your perspective.  🙏

 

If you intend to only have two pens, you have two options: pick them out carefully...and once you've bought them, log out of FPN and never come back here, LOL. Or, be open to buying a number of pens, but then selling off whichever ones don't make the final cut (which is a better way in my opinion to figure out what you do and don't like about pens).

 

I thought I wanted just ONE good fountain pen. I now have 19 or 20. There's still two more I want. It's been an evolution of sorts too, though. I've had many more pens, but my tastes have changed and I've sold them off, rolling that money back into other pens I've liked better. You learn as you go. My collection has focused on quality over quantity, lately. I try not to define in advance what I will and won't do in this "hobby", but I really do feel like I'm at the upper limit of how many pens I'm willing to have. In total, maybe I can stop at 25 and be happy. But they are always releasing new stuff, so you have to be very disciplined...I think I've showed restraint considering how many pens appeal to me. If I bought everything I liked the looks of, I'd own 300 pens easy!! And have WAY less money in my wallet...

 

More advice I wish I had gotten as noob: chase the nib, not just the pen. In other words, if you just want a pretty pen (but with a standard Jowo or Bock nib), you'll have limitless options. Swirly acrylic pens with standard Jowo nibs are being pumped out like candy right now. If you want unique writing experiences, the nib should be your focus. The manufacturers that make their own nibs tend to have a different feel to their pens (Pelikan, Aurora, Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, Lamy, just to name a few). There are also companies that get their nibs from Jowo, for example, but specify custom attributes about them that make them write a little differently than a standard Jowo nib. I think this is the case with Visconti. Conklin does this with their Omniflex nibs too. Just read and watch reviews on whatever pen you're interested in and you'll start to get a feel for how something might write in the hand. Deciding what you want can be trial and error though, too...so if you only want two pens, be prepared to buy more than that, but also sell some off. There's nothing wrong with trying a pen you think you might like and selling it later after you have tried it.

 

If you're interested in vintage, you have even more options...and don't forget about cheap Chinese options like Wing Sung, Jinhao, etc. Some of these pens are truly excellent writers and are a very cheap way to try out a certain pen size, style or look. Not much resale value, though...

[sirgilbert357]

14 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

That is correct.  The Pilot Custom Heritage 91 comes with these eight nib options out of what Pilot makes:

EF, F, SF, FM, SFM, M, SM, B, and BB

whereas the Sailor Professional Gear Slim comes with seven standard nib options:

EF, F, MF, M, B, Z, and MS

 

 

The Pilot Custom Heritage 912, which is also a ‘standard’ model in the current product line-up and quite common among Pilot pen users, has the full range of fifteen nib options for the Custom line. If you want to count across models, the Pilot Elabo (aka Falcon) has SEF and SB nibs that are outside of the list of fifteen; and its SF and SM nibs are different from the Custom line's SF and SM nibs, so that makes at least seventeen if not nineteen.

 

Whereas, in its current line-up, Sailor only has seven standard and seven Naginata specialty nib options, making a total of fourteen.

 

Ah, OK. Thanks for the correction.

 

Smug Dill always seems to know the specifics!! 😃👍

[AJ20]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:49 PM, sirgilbert357 said:

If you intend to only have two pens, you have two options: pick them out carefully...and once you've bought them, log out of FPN and never come back here, LOL. Or, be open to buying a number of pens, but then selling off whichever ones don't make the final cut (which is a better way in my opinion to figure out what you do and don't like about pens).

@sirgilbert357 This cracked me up. Ha ha ha... Sound advice. Let's see what happens! 😉

A balance between form and function would be a great idea. Some pens are great writers, but they don't speak to you aesthetically and vice versa. In both cases, a flag is raised for me. Nib surely matters as it significantly decides one's writing experience. For now, I am enjoying writing with my Cross and Kaweco pens. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Cheers! 😊

[Daosus]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:19 AM, sirgilbert357 said:

 

If you intend to only have two pens, you have two options: pick them out carefully...and once you've bought them, log out of FPN and never come back here, LOL. Or, be open to buying a number of pens, but then selling off whichever ones don't make the final cut (which is a better way in my opinion to figure out what you do and don't like about pens).

 

 

 

*looks over to his 6 Sailors and 10 Pilots* 😐 Whatever do you mean?

[sirgilbert357]

12 hours ago, Daosus said:

 

 

*looks over to his 6 Sailors and 10 Pilots* 😐 Whatever do you mean?

 

Did you ever intend to stay at only two pens? LOL. We'll see if the OP can stick with just two...I have my doubts.