Rest In Peace Tomoe River :’(

[collectorofmanythings]

  On 7/24/2021 at 10:45 AM, aimi said:

Here's a few Japanese papers I've tried that I like and might be alternatives to TR (note that I don't use many sheening inks):

 

• Cosmo Air Light: All your pens look broader on this paper, but the shading is nice. This quality makes it feel nice to write on with needlepoints, but might be annoying with very broad nibs. I also was not a fan of the drag of the pen on this paper... someone earlier mentioned it's like walking through mud, and for me it's the same.
• Graphilo: Everything looks great on this paper, but it's extremely expensive. I also had a super-wet vintage pen feather all over it (yikes!), but it might be my pen's problem though it hasn't feathered on say, Midori or TR.
• Midori MD: As mentioned earlier, the edges of your letters aren't as smooth, but it shows shading and sheening adequately (though not as brilliant as TR). The only problem is that it's cream. If you prefer an ivory or whiter shade, try Midori Cotton. I heard that cotton was more absorptive but the shading seems to show up all right.
• LIFE: I really enjoyed the LIFE Pistachio paper, but it only comes in lines and grids. Pistachio paper is pretty smooth. I also tried LIFE Bank paper and iirc it was sort of somewhere similar to Midori MD in that it has a texture to write on, but it is not cream.
• Apica: I tried a cheaper line of Apica, I believe? It was the Apica CD notebook. It's a bit more economical than some of the other options, but I wasn't that impressed. I did experience a little bit of feathering with wet vintage pens, and otherwise it was just extremely normal. Other Apica lines may be better.

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That’s unfortunate about Cosmo Air Light. I like that about shading and sheening, but what if I want to use a broad nib? I hate that walking through mud thing, if I wanted that I might as well use a stupid Bic ballpoint!

[A Smug Dill]

  On 7/24/2021 at 12:30 PM, collectorofmanythings said:

That’s unfortunate about Cosmo Air Light. I like that about shading and sheening, but what if I want to use a broad nib?

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Then use a broad nib? If your priority is to use a broad nib to write, and enjoy the process, then do just that, and accept the outcome as it appears on your choice of nib and paper.

 

On the other hand, if your priority is to put down on the page some objective specification of a ‘broad’ line that you have in mind, then you'd choose the tools and materials (i.e. pen, nib, ink, and paper) that will give you the desired outcome, even if it means the nib you use may be marked ‘M’ instead of ‘B’.

[Karmachanic]

delete

[bunnspecial]

  On 7/24/2021 at 12:24 PM, collectorofmanythings said:

But I cannot agree about Toffee Brown being a warm color, to me it looks like a very cool brown, with a purple undertone.

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Out of curiosity(and not to be patronizing) but what paper are you using it on and are you sure your pen was clean when you tested it? I've used this ink a lot(it's one of the few inks I've actually gone out of my way to buy in cartridges so that I can use it in my 147). I was sold on it when I bought a pen from someone on here and they included a note written with it, and since bought a bottle and have fallen in love with the ink.

 

I've yet to see any purple undertones from this ink, unlike some of my other browns(of which I have a decent number, including some inks sold as reds that I classify as browns). I definitely see purple or red in some of them, but not in TB.

[collectorofmanythings]

  On 7/24/2021 at 3:57 PM, bunnspecial said:

 

Out of curiosity(and not to be patronizing) but what paper are you using it on and are you sure your pen was clean when you tested it? I've used this ink a lot(it's one of the few inks I've actually gone out of my way to buy in cartridges so that I can use it in my 147). I was sold on it when I bought a pen from someone on here and they included a note written with it, and since bought a bottle and have fallen in love with the ink.

 

I've yet to see any purple undertones from this ink, unlike some of my other browns(of which I have a decent number, including some inks sold as reds that I classify as browns). I definitely see purple or red in some of them, but not in TB.

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Firstly, I am not criticizing you in any way. If you love the ink, good for you! But here is an image from MountainOfInk.com where I feel the purple undertones are shown well.

[bunnspecial]

  On 7/24/2021 at 9:36 PM, collectorofmanythings said:

  On 7/24/2021 at 3:57 PM, bunnspecial said:

Firstly, I am not criticizing you in any way. If you love the ink, good for you! But here is an image from MountainOfInk.com where I feel the purple undertones are shown well.

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Out of curiosity, have you used the ink yourself?

 

I like Mountain of Ink and reference them a lot, but what they show in this instance is not representative of my experience

 

Here are three quick samples-one from my swatch card I had on file, the other two on Rhodia 80gsm and Tomoe River 52gsm

 

 

[maclink]

So many variables: paper properties, amount and thickness of ink laid down, one’s own perception of nuanced colour variance. There’s also the camera image output and how my own display is tuned while displaying images. The subtle side of the experience becomes quite personal. 

[TheRedBeard]

  On 7/19/2021 at 11:20 AM, cnnlim said:

From my experience there are probably different grade of TR paper. I love the TR paper in my Hobonichi notebook. It is super smooth, very thin but no bleed through at all. On the other hand some of my loose sheet TR paper does bleed through with certain pen. 

 

I too don't like the cream color TR paper but you can always get the white color ones. 

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I purchased white... but it happened to be not "really white" white comparing to Oxford   

[TheRedBeard]

  On 7/19/2021 at 3:12 AM, ENewton said:

 

I have never loved it either.  In general, I prefer paper with a bit more heft and texture.  Also, some of my inks turn weird colors on Tomoe River paper.

 

But the very thin-ness that would put me off from using Tomoe River paper for writing makes it very well suited for a small format page-a-day planner, such as the Hobonichi Techo.  I wonder what paper Hobonichi will use when Tomoe River is no longer available.

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Yes... I found it too thin for me.. 

[collectorofmanythings]

  On 7/24/2021 at 10:09 PM, bunnspecial said:

 

Out of curiosity, have you used the ink yourself?

 

I like Mountain of Ink and reference them a lot, but what they show in this instance is not representative of my experience

 

Here are three quick samples-one from my swatch card I had on file, the other two on Rhodia 80gsm and Tomoe River 52gsm

 

 

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Wow! That ink looks gorgeous! In all places that I’ve seen it on the internet it looked like it did on Mountain of Ink, but I guess they didn’t show it well! I’ll have to pick up a bottle!

[bunnspecial]

  On 7/27/2021 at 5:15 PM, collectorofmanythings said:

Wow! That ink looks gorgeous! In all places that I’ve seen it on the internet it looked like it did on Mountain of Ink, but I guess they didn’t show it well! I’ll have to pick up a bottle!

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It's honestly still my favorite brown.

 

I'd not used it, but back in the fall I bought an MB 145 from a member here(ended up selling it because it was too small for my liking and didn't have a ton of other redeeming qualities for me, but I'm glad to have tried and experienced it). In any case, I'd never actually used MB cartridges since on the rare occasion I need one I have piles of Pelikan Blue around, or more often I just grab one of my empties(I never throw them away) and fill it with whatever ink I want.

 

All of that aside, he threw in a "sampler pack" if you will of MB cartridges-there were two blacks, two Midnight Blues, and two Toffee Browns. He told me it was a great ink and that it was well worth trying, and the writing samples he'd shown me were with it.

Somewhere or another in there too I bought an MB 14 from a different member here, and he enclosed a note in the box written with his B nib Hemingway(how I so want one of those) in Toffee Brown.

 

I'd never before used a brown, but tried that and I was hooked. It's still my go-to brown.

 

I've added a handful more, and second in line might be the ink I still stubbornly call Waterman Havana brown. I've gone to both ends where I've bought "red" inks that looked brown to me(Diamine Oxblood) and also have some that are more coppery-colored like Penman Mocha and PR Copper Burst. If I'm not using Toffee Brown I'll tend toward the lighter ones(Mocha in particular, which happens to be one of the more affordable Penman inks, or alternatively Scribe Jamocha that's supposed to mimick Penman Mocha).

 

Try Toffee, though, and you wont' be disappointed it.

 

[collectorofmanythings]

  On 7/27/2021 at 5:42 PM, bunnspecial said:

 

It's honestly still my favorite brown.

 

I'd not used it, but back in the fall I bought an MB 145 from a member here(ended up selling it because it was too small for my liking and didn't have a ton of other redeeming qualities for me, but I'm glad to have tried and experienced it). In any case, I'd never actually used MB cartridges since on the rare occasion I need one I have piles of Pelikan Blue around, or more often I just grab one of my empties(I never throw them away) and fill it with whatever ink I want.

 

All of that aside, he threw in a "sampler pack" if you will of MB cartridges-there were two blacks, two Midnight Blues, and two Toffee Browns. He told me it was a great ink and that it was well worth trying, and the writing samples he'd shown me were with it.

Somewhere or another in there too I bought an MB 14 from a different member here, and he enclosed a note in the box written with his B nib Hemingway(how I so want one of those) in Toffee Brown.

 

I'd never before used a brown, but tried that and I was hooked. It's still my go-to brown.

 

I've added a handful more, and second in line might be the ink I still stubbornly call Waterman Havana brown. I've gone to both ends where I've bought "red" inks that looked brown to me(Diamine Oxblood) and also have some that are more coppery-colored like Penman Mocha and PR Copper Burst. If I'm not using Toffee Brown I'll tend toward the lighter ones(Mocha in particular, which happens to be one of the more affordable Penman inks, or alternatively Scribe Jamocha that's supposed to mimick Penman Mocha).

 

Try Toffee, though, and you wont' be disappointed it.

 

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I definitely will have to! All the browns I have at the moment are:

 

Herbin Lie de The

Jacques Herbin Terre d’Ombre

Noodler’s Walnut

Waterman Havana Brown

And Diamine Chocolate Brown. 
 

I’ll be excited to add Toffee Brown to that list!

[Vintage_BE]

FWIW: during a recent visit to Amsterdam I went into the venerable Vlieger store (a 175 year old business, see http://www.vliegerpapier.nl/historie.html). They mostly sell paper for use by artists, but I found a A4 paper called Melo, 60 grams, off white color. They kindly allowed me to test a sheet before buying. I personally find that it comes close to Tomoe River: very thin yet no feathering or shading (I have now tried numerous inks, also including non-FP inks such as Sumi, Talens Ecoline and Rohrer Antiktusche), smooth feeling and decent shading.  Bonus: it’s reasonably priced: Vlieger sells it either by the sheet (0.10€) or in 250 sheet packs (15.5€). It seems to be available in both A3 and A4 formats. Not sure about A5. As always, and in particular in connection with Tomoe River: YMMV, perhaps even considerably. 

[mhguda]

Thanks for an interesting update in our drama. Mostly for curiosity's sake: what is the name of your paper, if I wanted to buy from the store online? They do have a huge selection of papers, you have to know what you want in order to buy...

[Karmachanic]

Sanzen Tomoe River is starting to appear. Here's what Leigh Reyes has to say about it.

[Sailor Kenshin]

  On 7/24/2021 at 12:30 PM, collectorofmanythings said:

That’s unfortunate about Cosmo Air Light. I like that about shading and sheening, but what if I want to use a broad nib? I hate that walking through mud thing, if I wanted that I might as well use a stupid Bic ballpoint!

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I got a few pen pal letters written on Cosmo Air Light and scribbled in the margins.  Fell in love.  Bought a small pack, even though I had sworn off buying any new paper.  😊

[Vintage_BE]

  On 5/26/2022 at 1:20 PM, mhguda said:

Thanks for an interesting update in our drama. Mostly for curiosity's sake: what is the name of your paper, if I wanted to buy from the store online? They do have a huge selection of papers, you have to know what you want in order to buy...

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See http://www.vliegerpapier.nl/producten/alle-artikelen/melo_3917.html, it’s also listed by a paper wholesaler https://igepa.nl/01-0102-0015-melo-ni-60-g-m-720-x-1020-mm-ll

[mhguda]

thank you for the links!

Now I know what paper I would also like to try. However, both these shops make it difficult to order online... in fact, I'm not even sure if they accept overseas orders. I've had that kind of trouble ordering things from the Netherlands in the past...

[Geert Jan]

I think both will present difficulties for online ordering: Vlieger explicitly states they’re not an online shop and Igepa looks like a whosale business.

 

You may have to rely on someone visiting Vlieger to get hold of the paper and then send it to you. Alternatively find a shop/site carrying this paper that can ship it directly to you. From what I can recall, Vieger does allow very small orders (single sheets, maybe for real specialty papers). That was when I last visited them, quite some years ago. 

[mhguda]

thanks for the tip...

however, maybe I should see this as a plus: making it impossible to order more paper - I already have way too much...

will wait until my Sanzen notebooks arrive, hopefully not too long from now.😄