Stubborn Parker Vacumatic Assembly removal...tips? tricks?

[NibHead64]

Hello all,

I've been working on this beautiful 1'st generation standard Vac in burgundy with perfect barrel clarity for about a week now.  Soaking and heating then using the 'Pentooling' vac assembly removal tool to try and loosen things up.  It's not budging and I'm starting to worry I may never get the thing out.

Does anyone have any tricks that might help me in my quest?? 

Any....and I mean any help is greatly appreciated.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

There are many good articles to be found

 this one is my favorite:

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/vac.htm

 

above all, I recommend patience. Lots and lots of it. 
 

good luck, vacs are gorgeous pens. 

[NibHead64]

Ithinkihavea prob...Thanks for the link...I've referred to Richards site for years now and restored dozens of Vacs....this one though is unlike anything I've ever encountered.

I fear a previous restorer used something to secure the assembly in place....not shellac or rosin but perhaps super glue or some other epoxy.  I don't know, but I guess I'll just keep plugging away at it.

This one is really spectacular so I don't want to mess it up!

Thanks again.

 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

unfortunately, good wishes is all i can offer. I have no experience with glues on celluloid.

 

but I can say that my ultra sonic got a vacumatic section loose that soaking and heating alone (repeatedly) did not.

It was only or two rounds in the ultrasonic and it just unscrewed by hand...

 

Good luck

Sorry I can't be of more help. 

Hopefully one of the experienced guys like Ron will jump in here and offer some additional insight.

[NibHead64]

Yes, funny thing...I've never owned a ultrasonic....but maybe now is the time to give it a try.  Thank you for your help.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

Took me 2 yrs of procrastinating to pick one up.

Paid $40 CAD for it. Paid for itself in that one go as far as i'm concerned

 

 

[Paul-in-SF]

Hello, NibHead64. I have two comments, which come from recent experience.

 

One is to ask which Pentooling tool you are using. I originally had the brass tool with the tightening screw, but on one of my pens it couldn't grasp the threads tightly enough, and they kept slipping around. I didn't have that problem with any other pen, so I don't think it's really a problem with the tool. But I did buy his other tool, the bigger one with the squeeze handle (you can get them for either the demi size or the standard size, or he sells a third one that handles both sizes). That allowed me to squeeze the threads tighter, which was enough (with a little heat) to get the thing out. 

 

The other is one that I haven't used myself, but I think I have seen Ron Zorn on this site recommend trying a few drops of naphtha or lighter fluid into the threads, letting it penetrate, and trying the tool again. You might want to search for threads mentioning vacumatic and naphtha to make sure I got that right. 

 

As always, continue with the patience too. Best of luck on this. 

[VacNut]

Couldn’t agree more on the patience, dry heat, and the naphtha. With the newer shipping regulations, it may be difficult to find a source in Washington. The other option is a tin of older lighter fluid with the older formulations. The naphtha will soften the rubber diaphragm that may be adhering the collar.

If you search through this forum, you can find guidelines on how to make a brass-tube knockout tool that you can insert into the section side of the barrel, and gently tap the filler from the “back side” of the filler with the knockout tool and a small hammer.  I stress the word “gently”. You will not be able to knock-out the filler, but the gentle tapping may loosen the bond. You will still need the vac tool to unscrew the threaded collar.  (By first generation I am assuming the filler is aluminum with an aluminum lockdown sleeve, and not a later replacement plastic/ebonite filler which may be more easily damaged by the tapping).

 

I Insert the filler through a knockout block with a thick matte board between the end of the pen and the block. The matte board has a slot cut into the board, so the filler can pass through, but still provides cushioning between the celluloid barrel and the block.

 

There are various opinions on ultrasonic cleaners and “assembled” pens. I do not personally use a ultrasonic cleaner, particularly on tight fitting pen parts. I think the cleaner may be appropriate for metallic disassembled parts, but I think the vibrations may be too aggressive for celluloid pens. (I once purchased a mint emerald vac OS from a collector, who had decided to soak the pristine barrel in a cleaner, and fractured the barrel into three pieces. He swore he would never use the cleaner on another celluloid pen).

 

I had a similar experience on a stuck filler, and the kind souls on this forum guided me to a simple solution...send the pen out to a skilled pen technician who can loosened the filler. It may be well worth the small expense to preserve the pen.
 

did I mention “gently” tap?
Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[NibHead64]

Hi Paul-in-SF and VacNut,

Thanks for your responses.  I've never heard of tapping out from the section end. 

As it turns out...I recently got another burgundy deb 1st gen vac.  It looked in rough shape with what I thought was a crystalized blind cap that had adhered to the vac collar.  I only got it because I needed the striped jewels.  I got the section off with no problems at all but the blind cap was stuck hard.  In sheer desperation I tried a my brand new ultrasonic cleaner and voila....cap came right off but the collar was hard stuck.  By this time I decided to try and salvage the whole thing because the barrel was looking pristine....so a couple more cycles or heat and short ultrasonic sessions and I managed to get the collar out.

I use the brass Pentooling tool...and have the same problem you described.  The Standard sized burgundy is still waiting for me to try again....or send out to someone with more experience.  The little jewel has come off the aluminum tube along with the spring inside.  The collar is looking pretty worn from my efforts.  I've been thinking about picking up one of the squeeze vac tools....I think it would be worth my wild. 

Thanks again,

James

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/vac.htm

 

here is the site that shows how to make the tool to push it out from the section side

I've used mine a few times, it's been quite handy.

[tmenyc]

Yes, basically, to all of those solutions. I use the "squeeze" vac tool; be careful to get the threads aligned perfectly when you squeeze. Also, one has to assume that you've tried heating the barrel up a bit hotter than you normally would; do it carefully and slowly, see if that helps. This is one of those times when having a laser surface thermometer really helps. 

 

Two other things to try when none of the ultrasound, knockout, or naptha work. If you think it might be superglue, try sticking the pen in the freezer overnight and then using your knockout, gently. CA breaks when frozen, but the pen won't. Finally, I'd try a light application of WD40 to get in there. It's a better penetrant than naphtha, although generally not as safe. I wouldn't spray it, I'd feather it into the top edge of the filling unit with a skinny paintbrush to keep it from getting all over. The issue with it is that you will then have to clean it out of the filler or what is left of the filler, and the barrel.  I've found it a useful, non-damaging, if last ditch, tool. 

 

Tim  

 

 

[VacNut]

There are so many variables on why a filler is stuck to the barrel. I posted this question and a while back, and received some interesting suggestions:

 

 

In my case, I sent the pen out and the technician successfully removed the filler from the crystal vac. I don’t think at that time, I really knew what a crystal vac was. 
 

I was told one drastic approach is to immerse the end in heated water at a specific temperature to not melt the celluloid- the thinking being it is easier to regulate water temperature than air temperature. The potential failure may be clouding of the barrel.

 

Good luck.

[Bristol24]

One technique I've read about and will be trying soon on a Parker 51 vac filler that won't budge is to heat the filler end of the barrel and then use padded jaw pliers to squeeze the barrel at the filler threads working all around the barrel at the filler joint.  This supposedly helps to weaken the bond.  Do that, then reheat and try the vac tool.

 

Cliff

[VacNut]

3 hours ago, Bristol24 said:

One technique I've read about and will be trying soon on a Parker 51 vac filler that won't budge is to heat the filler end of the barrel and then use padded jaw pliers to squeeze the barrel at the filler threads working all around the barrel at the filler joint.  This supposedly helps to weaken the bond.  Do that, then reheat and try the vac tool.

 

Cliff

I have read about this technic and cannot speak to the effectiveness, but I would be wary of applying force from padded pliers onto the back end of a celluloid barrel. I have tried squeezing a Vacumatic section with a  set of section pliers and crushed the section into several pieces. It may be worthwhile as a DIY experiment, but I would have serious reservation about using the pliers on any 51 barrels of value. 
 

At worst case, the filler unit can be drilled out by a skilled pen technician for a small charge and the cost of a filler. I still suggest dry heat and patience, if the OP does not want to send the pen out for repairs.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

4 hours ago, Bristol24 said:

One technique I've read about and will be trying soon on a Parker 51 vac filler that won't budge is to heat the filler end of the barrel and then use padded jaw pliers to squeeze the barrel at the filler threads working all around the barrel at the filler joint.  This supposedly helps to weaken the bond.  Do that, then reheat and try the vac tool.

 

Cliff

Not gonna lie… no way i would do this with one of my pens.

 

if the filler is THAT stuck, i’d drill it out. They can be had for reasonable prices. 

[Bristol24]

My apology.  I obviously did not make myself understood.  The only area that should be squeezed with padded jaw pliers is the area reinforced by the filler threads.  This also assumes that the pliers operator knows enough not to over do it.  The objective is to gently (persuasively) squeeze the joint while it is heated in order to create slight localized lateral movement between the two surfaces.  This would be less stressful than using section pliers and applying too much torque.  Of course all of this assumes at least a minimal level of mechanical aptitude.  Anyone can apply too much force either by hand, with section pliers, or with padded pliers.  We're not talking about forcing things.  Coaxing would be a better discription.  

 

Cliff

[FarmBoy]

Where in California is the filler stuck?

[Bristol24]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:30 PM, FarmBoy said:

Where in California is the filler stuck?

Central California...about 26 miles SE of Fresno.

 

Cliff

[FarmBoy]

It should go to the San Francisco pen show for an attitude adjustment.