Please educate me (if you like) about slightly older Pelikan M600s and their nibs

[Paul-in-SF]

I was watching one of Appelboom's Top 3 Pens videos and one of the pens that was held up as a daily user was a "Pelikan 600 old style" (his words) in black. It has one gold band at the piston knob, and most interesting to me is that it has an 18-kt gold nib which he describes as surprisingly soft and springy (the video is here if you want to see it, and the short discussion of this pen starts at 2:13, he holds the pen up at 2:16, and there is never a close-up view of the pen). 

 

My questions are:

 

What is the significance of the single gold band at the piston knob? Most modern Pelikan M600's seem to have two bands there. Does that make it possible to identify the era where this was from?

 

Were 18K soft nibs common in that era? Was there an official Pelikan designation for those nibs (if you had bought one new at that time and wanted to select a nib)?

 

Are there any soft new nib units available for Pelikan M600 series? (I have one of those orange crush models and the F nib is both too broad -- writes like an M -- and very firm.)

 

I haven't spent a lot of time trying to find out about Pelikan pens up to now, if there is a resource around that I should be looking at, I would appreciate being pointed there. Thanks. 

[OMASsimo]

An old style black M600 Pelikan was the first used pen I ever bought. I bought it as edc and indeed it is an excellent user pen. "Old style" refers to the production period 1985-1997 when this design was re-introduced into the market. It’s based on the vintage 400 design that was produced from 1950-56. The 400 and M400 had no gold band at the piston knob and a single band on the cap. The old style M600 was the size of the M400 but had a double band on the cap and a single band on the piston knob to distinguish it from the M400. Most old M600 had an 18 k nib but there also were 14 k versions. After 1997 the general design of all “Souverän" pens was the same as the old M600 but they differed in size.
 

You can look up a ton of information here:

https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/en/Pelikan/Models/Souveraen-Series/M600-Basis/index.html

 

When I bought my old M600 something like 20 years ago I was in heaven about the nib. I used a Montblanc and a Waterman up to then and both gave me enough trouble to look for something better. Today I would describe the nib as a springy nail while the modern M600 has a total nail. It writes very nicely and is super reliable. So yes, it is springier than the post 1997 versions. My views on this pen only changed because it guided me to look into the world of vintage pens and, oh my, what a difference! The original 400 or more common 400NN had at least a semi-flex nib and was way more flexible than the old style M400/M600 nibs. They also had a different grind making them more interesting in my opinion.

 

so, long story short, if you prefer a soft nail over hard nail, then the old style Souverän Pelikans might be for you. If you look for any degree of flex, then don’t bother. That said, I should ink my old M600 for sentimental reasons and use it.:)

[Paul-in-SF]

I'm not really looking for flex, just a softer, springier feel. Anyway, thank you for the reference, it seems very thorough.

 

Is it your sense that all the 18-kt nibs of the old style Pelikan M600's were soft(er)?

[azur3s0ng]

I have the exact old style M600 in that Appelboom's video. I bought it from an auction off eBay. 

 

I have 3 old style M600s from my collection:

• Pelikan M600 Black in F (monotone 18c with special "7" imprint)
• Pelikan M600 Green Stripe in M (two tone 18c with PF stamp)
• Pelikan M600 Green Stripe in OM (two tone 18c with EN stamp)

 

Quote

Is it your sense that all the 18-kt nibs of the old style Pelikan M600's were soft(er)?

 

There are different nibs being used on old style M600s. That monotone 18c nib (the one I have) is super wet and soft, and if you look closer, the "7" for the  "18C 750" imprint is different from others. In general, the monotone 18c nib on old style M600s is softer, except for "PF" stamp ones. There is also "EN" stamped 18c two tone nib, which are harder than the monotone ones, but more springy than "PF" stamped ones.

 

IMHO, the softness is: the special "7" imprint monotone 18c = EN stamped monotone 18c  > 14c two tone > EN stamped two tone 18c > PF stamped two tone 18c

[Paul-in-SF]

Very comprehensive, thanks. 

[tacitus]

This is not questioned but I compared my old monotone 18c nib with my newer 14c two tone nib.

 

As already said, monotone 18c nib (left) is softer than with 14c two tone nib (right).

IMO, the softness is related to the shape of nib. The monotone 18c nib is thinner, less curved.

 

I heard that when monotone 18c nibs were introduced into Japan, many users applied more pressure than Pelikan assumed, and ruined the nibs leading to claims. 

 

When the monotone 18c nib just came to me, the tines of the nib were easily open apart with the pressure, and the ink often skipped. So, it was soft but not so wet. Now it is fixed. This may be individual difference.

 

Anyway, 14c two tone nib is more reliable to me, and I think Pelikan considered reliability matters. 

 

[Paul-in-SF]

Thank you for the photo, that's very helpful.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The small 600 was the upscale 400, so had a gold piston knob band...& double band vs the 400's single band. A bit of low keyed bling.

 

My definition of a semi-nail is a bit different, and or Omassimo's nib is harder than mine. My definition  is a 2X maxed tine spread for semi-nail...............like the modern 605 that I have....(&modern 400 from my reading also. Luckily never got any of them.)

This small 600 OBB will do 3 X.

 

My near mint with size sticker just a bit used, 18K, black and gold small 600 OBB, two toned nib (with little pf mark) is one of the more springy of my regular flex nibs....

...in fact I had to dig out some semi-flex to make sure it wasn't semi-flex.

I'd just written it off as nice regular flex, with out the testing it against other nibs but the regular flex 1005 that I won at the same auction.

 

It was much more springy than my regular flex 18 K 2005  black and silver OBB 1005. Enough to dig out some semi-flex nibs to check. It wasn't, quite,  but it is startling to have to pull out the 'Big Boy's to see if it was ...somehow.

Well it is a W.Germany....which explains the bit more spring to the nib.......Was a little slow in picking that up.

 

& also 1/2 a width narrower which one expects on vintage and semi-vintage Pelikans.

 

Softer than my '90's 381&Celebry, which are nice springy 14 K regular flex. (which were in the pen cup.)

 

Thanks guys, I'm more impressed with that nib than I was before.

Going to have to pull out my 18 K W.Germany 800....to take a gander........naw, not now, got too many pens in the waiting list....some day perhaps.

 

[OMASsimo]

18 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

I'm not really looking for flex, just a softer, springier feel. Anyway, thank you for the reference, it seems very thorough.

 

Is it your sense that all the 18-kt nibs of the old style Pelikan M600's were soft(er)?

I just learned from this thread that there were a variety of different nibs for the old style M600. I only have one with a two-toned 18k nib with "EN" mark, so I only can speak for this one. I also found another curiosity, namely that my post 1997 M600 has an 18k nib as well while standard references state it only was offered with 14k nibs. Of course, mine could be an export model that didn’t make it into the references.

Anyway, apparently there are differences in springiness even among old style M600 models. I can’t judge how much variation there was from nib to nib within the same series because I don’t have enough of those pens. But for pre-1965 Pelikans I can tell that variation from nib to nib can be quite significant.

In the end, you might have to give it a try. Assessments of nibs are rather subjective after all. But chances are good that you might find the "old style" pre-1997 nibs a bit springier than the average modern offerings.

[Bo Bo Olson]

50 minutes ago, OMASsimo said:

you might find the "old style" pre-1997 nibs a bit springier than the average modern offerings.

Out side the 200's, and vintage D&H nibs well I've gotten cautious in my old age,  no more cases of beer, I'd bet a six pack they are.

Modern post '97 400/600 are from all reports semi-nail and have a fat and blobby nib. I only had one....my 605 was a semi-nail.

The pre'97 has proper nib geometry so writes with a nice Clean Line............

 

As soon as I was bitten by a semi-flex in the wild, I'd became a semi-flex snob.

Then by and by because of the 200's nibs, I got to like regular flex quite a lot. I rant about them way too much.

 

The debate comes to is a nice smooth springy ride and a clean line, better than a hard riding butter smooth woolly line?

 

Testing my small 600 for this thread....has shown that the W.Germany nibs ....with my large selection of 3, to be that tad springier than '91-97 regular flex; that folks have been informing us for ages.

Do have to have both to feel the differece.

[azur3s0ng]

19 hours ago, OMASsimo said:

I also found another curiosity, namely that my post 1997 M600 has an 18k nib as well while standard references state it only was offered with 14k nibs. Of course, mine could be an export model that didn’t make it into the references.

Did you buy it brand new? If not, there is a possibility that 620/640/650 nibs, which are offered as 18c, got swapped into your post '97 M600.

 

18 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Modern post '97 400/600 are from all reports semi-nail and have a fat and blobby nib.

IIRC, I read an earlier post between you and MarkTrain about the softness/springy level for the nibs pre '97. The old style nibs in later productions (maybe 95-97) started to be semi-nail, I have several M250s being produced in that era (e.g. black-green M250 old style, produced in 96-97).

 

IMHO, the earlier post '97 nibs are not fat and blobby. Pelikan started the fat/blobby nibs around 2010. I might be wrong on the exact time when Pelikan changed the nib grinding style.

[Bo Bo Olson]

My dark blue  605...pictures and info from Applebloom.

Sargetalon of Pelikan Perch said...Just one model circa 2003 in solid blue with silver colored trim.

 

So take your choice of when they were. 2003, or 2003-2015.

 

I've long been under impression it was not long made and Galeria Kaufhof was selling remainders at a dirt cheap price.

I got it much cheaper than a gold nibbed 400..........and foolishly as a gold snob didn't buy the yellow 200 for E 30 at the same time....which also was a reminder in it too was too cheap to believe.

Still don't have a yellow pen.

 

 

Was rather uninspiring, not a lot of class to it....but sure was cheap enough....and I knew as I bought it, and swapped in the M nib for a BB; that some day I'd stub or have it made into a CI...so wanted enough nib to do that.

xxxxxxxxxx

Originally produced as an export model, sold by Levenger with a little blue porcelain Pelican. Later also available in Germany a t Galeria Kaufhof.....(as remainders)

bought there....a good ten years ago for E-99.....and was a fat and blobby nib....eventually the BB nib was stubbed to a 1.0/B nib. By Fountainble...on our com.

 

Production: 2003-2015 Nib: 14 ct gold...so your 2010 could be right for the start of fat and blobby nibs but I don't know, having not read that before.

Just realized that BB nib could have been a later make in I did a nib swap.....but the M that was on it looked fat and blobby to me.

Using the automatically light  'Forefinger Up' method of grasping a pen.

 

There are other blue 605's ,

Blue Striated (2012 §)
Marine Blue  (2013 §)	transparent.

 

[ralfstc]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:06 AM, tacitus said:

IMO, the softness is related to the shape of nib. The monotone 18c nib is thinner, less curved

This has me thinking. It would be really interesting if somebody with a decent scale could weigh different nibs from the same model. For example, my PF nib M800 does feel softer than later nibs-- could it simply be a thinner nib (reflected in a lighter weight)?

 

Anyone have the equipment and the nibs?

[OMASsimo]

Weight would be a poor indicator of thickness because it would rely on same overall dimensions of the nibs as well as on even thickness. Especially the latter is not a given, particularly for earlier nibs. A better way would be to measure the thickness directly e.g. using a dial gauge or dixieme gauge.

[OMASsimo]

7 hours ago, azur3s0ng said:

Did you buy it brand new? If not, there is a possibility that 620/640/650 nibs, which are offered as 18c, got swapped into your post '97 M600.

I bought it used in 2009. But I’d consider it highly unlikely that someone swapped the nib for several reasons. Especially, because most users would consider an 18k nib and 620/640/650 model much more valuable than a basic 600 with 14k nib. So, it wouldn’t make much sense to swap a nib and then sell for a low price and end up with a 6xx pen with wrong 14k nib. Also, back then only few people even knew that you simply can swap nibs of Pelikans. Even today, most privat sellers have no clue but it’s much easier to find the corresponding information on the internet.

[TitoThePencilPimp]

You can always pay a nibmeister to add flex to a pelikan m600 nib.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Perhaps I mentioned my 18 K, W.Germany 600, has a very nice springy regular flex nib....others call springy...  soft. A slight tad more springy-soft than the later '91 -97 regular flex.

Clean line of that, semi-vintage and vintage stub clean line.

 

I am so into clean lines and against woolly lines or feathering, I came up with a system to rate that... using a.big honking 1 1/2" thick magnifying glass used in end stage...

..10X loup way too much....everything is woolly then.

 

If anyone wants to join the OCD train of woolly and clean line, ask and I'll find a post where I explained it.

 

One of the reasons I developed it, was so many Ink Reviews showed a woolly line they didn't notice....with fair to good paper.