Sailor King Profit Ebonite Naginata

[Ronderick]

https://sailor.co.jp/topics/kinproebo_naginata/

 

https://sailor.co.jp/product/10-1585/

 

Slated for June 5 in Japan and available in NMF, NM, and NB.

 

Again, a bit surprised for the (more or less?) standard release given all the fun people have been experiencing when trying to get their hands on the flames and waves versions of the ebonite naginata....

 

But when you consider the price you got to pay for one of this baby - a critical blow of 165,000 yen, it's not gonna be a easy choice.

[The-Thinker]

I wish they bring the other exotic nibs like king eagle and cobra back to action, fingers crossed 🤞 what are your thoughts ?

[zaddick]

At least they did not ugly up the pen with special trim rings or other unnecessary embellishments. Luckily I'm set and not tempted. 

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, Ronderick said:

Again, a bit surprised for the (more or less?) standard release

 

I'm not sure whether you meant it's a standard model, or that the wording of the press release is commonplace.

 

It is different from the King Profit Ebonite (models 11-7002-*) in Sailor's standard product line-up, if that's what you meant, on account of the nib. The standard models fitted with standard (extra large-sized, 21K gold) M and B nibs are ¥76,000+tax each, versus ¥150,000+tax each for the ones fitted with matching Naginata Togi nibs.

[Ronderick]

1 hour ago, The-Thinker said:

I wish they bring the other exotic nibs like king eagle and cobra back to action, fingers crossed 🤞 what are your thoughts ?

 

Well, I'm happy that Sailor already offers some of the more unusual nibs in their line up. But I doubt aside from special limited releases, we'll have any chances to see the resurfacing of the more niche nibs. I mean, without Nagahara, I will always have doubts about newly produced versions of those extremely exotic nibs. It's probably safer to be on the lookout for those treasures in the used or NOS market. 

[Ronderick]

55 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I'm not sure whether you meant it's a standard model, or that the wording of the press release is commonplace.

 

It is different from the King Profit Ebonite (models 11-7002-*) in Sailor's standard product line-up, if that's what you meant, on account of the nib. The standard models fitted with standard (extra large-sized, 21K gold) M and B nibs are ¥76,000+tax each, versus ¥150,000+tax each for the ones fitted with matching Naginata Togi nibs.

 

My bad. I mean that I'm quite surprised Sailor would put the KOP with naginata nibs as a standard model release.

 

Looking through the current lineup the company offers, I would assume that naginata nibs (and other exotic nibs) will remain with the regular-size profit line. That's probably the best cost-performance balance for people who just want the original nibs for a decent price (though it's already quite a jump from the previous "standard" naginata nibs). 

 

However the ebonite with XL naginata is really an overkill, since not many people could afford the asking price. It makes sense for having limited release like the waves and flames, but offering as a standard lineup... I wonder what Sailor's plan is? Maybe like the Urushi Custom with the size 30 nib in Pilot's lineup?

[mke]

So, people will (have to) pay about $1000 for a nib?

 

[A Smug Dill]

On 5/27/2021 at 5:32 PM, Ronderick said:

It's probably safer to be on the lookout for those treasures in the used or NOS market.

 

I agree. Yes, they're rarer and more expensive than ever now, but it isn't like Sailor is going to offer them cheaply if it decides to make a few new units to fit on ‘limited edition’ products, never mind that the company can unilaterally decide how ‘limited’ and/or renewable such products are.

 

What is not going to happen, and thus there is no point in hoping (as opposed to wishing), in my view is that Sailor will invest in effort to make those especially niche specialty nibs more commonplace, more accessible, financially cheaper for retail consumers to acquire, and more popular among end-users again. If anyone wants those nibs now — and there's nothing wrong with wanting — then they surely must consider what they want to be uncommon desires, and ways to fulfil them are limited, so they can be mentally prepared to pony up if they want satisfaction, and have few like-minded folk with whom to yammer about it afterwards.

[CityPop]

I find the value questionable in these, as I could just as likely have a KOP Ebonite purchased and sent to Nagahara Jr. and have it ground, for a sum total price of at least 40,000 yen cheaper. True, I probably wouldn't have enough tipping to have him grind me a N-B, but then again, I often wonder who could use one of those? I find the N-MF to be quite broad in itself.

[zaddick]

1 hour ago, CityPop said:

I find the value questionable in these, as I could just as likely have a KOP Ebonite purchased and sent to Nagahara Jr. and have it ground, for a sum total price of at least 40,000 yen cheaper. True, I probably wouldn't have enough tipping to have him grind me a N-B, but then again, I often wonder who could use one of those? I find the N-MF to be quite broad in itself.

There us nowhere near the amount of tipping needed to really replicate the grind using a stock KOP M or B. Sailor puts a lot more tipping on these pens in order to get that elongated blade shape. 

 

In the 1911L range I recommend people start with the Zoom nib if they want a Naginata Togi grind so there is enough to work with.

 

I had a Concord nib made instead for my KOP since that was never a factory option. 😁

[gyasko]

12 hours ago, CityPop said:

I often wonder who could use one of those? I find the N-MF to be quite broad in itself.

 

I have one of the ones made by the elder Nagahara.  It really isn’t that broad compared to the stubs & vintage German double broads i usually write with.  

 

It all depends on how much white space you use and how large you write.  

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, gyasko said:

It really isn’t that broad compared to the stubs & vintage German double broads i usually write with.  

 

A more sensible comparison would be with 21K gold H-MF nibs produced by Sailor, using the manufacturer's frame of reference as commonly observable by users of Sailor pens, in discussion across a user base with vastly different needs and habits. Even Sailor's own marketing collateral will show that the Naginata Togi nibs write more broadly than regular Sailor nibs of the same nib width grade.

[Ronderick]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:48 AM, A Smug Dill said:

What is not going to happen, and thus there is no point in hoping (as opposed to wishing), in my view is that Sailor will invest in effort to make those especially niche specialty nibs more commonplace, more accessible, financially cheaper for retail consumers to acquire, and more popular among end-users again. If anyone wants those nibs now — and there's nothing wrong with wanting — then they surely must consider what they want to be uncommon desires, and ways to fulfil them are limited, so they can be mentally prepared to pony up if they want satisfaction, and have few like-minded folk with whom to yammer about it afterwards.

 

OK, this is going to be weird, but I have to say that based on my observation from 2 local B&M high-end pen/stationary shops I frequently visit, the specialty naginata nibs have more of a presence than ever before.

 

I think Sailor's strategy nowadays seem to work a lot better in terms of raising customer awareness about their specialty nibs. I actually have the chance of seeing the display box with cross music and naginata emperor sitting in plain sight. Coming to think of it, a few years back, trying to see these specialty nibs require you to ask the store clerk specifically and it also depends on whether they have any in stock and if they're willing to go through the trouble and dig one up for you to see...

 

So while the price of the naginata/specialty nibs jumped like twice-fold, the company's effort to advertise the presence of these nibs (and strengthen the image of product availability when you can actually see the real pen in display boxes) is fairly successful IMO. At one of these shops, I do occasionally see a missing NB or NMF in the boxes, but it gets a new replacement after a week or two, so people do buy them even at that price range. 

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, Ronderick said:

So while the price of the naginata/specialty nibs jumped like twice-fold, the company's effort to advertise the presence of these nibs (and strengthen the image of product availability when you can actually see the real pen in display boxes) is fairly successful IMO.

 

If simply raising the market awareness, of the greatly reduced range of speciality nibs Sailor now sells, is its own end — as opposed to maintaining commercial viability and profitability of producing and offering pens those nibs being the business outcome, and marketing is just the means — then yes, I suppose it is fairly successful.

 

I think Sailor is on the road to turning the specialty nibs into products in their own right, while still adhering to a tacit philosophy that it's in the business of only selling whole, tightly integrated and finely crafted writing instruments, not platforms for particularly discerning pen users to assemble (by self-service) interoperable and substitutable parts however highly priced. Perhaps the company is entertaining the vision that its nibs of renown is the focus of the consumer's purchase of a new Sailor pen, and the different colourways and form factors are just product options around the nib-centric purchase. In a way, how Sailor has been incessantly churning out limited or special editions by the dozen every year, of the same models and formulated using the same ‘library’ of single-hued resins available to the factory, instead of venturing into different body materials and finishes, has apparently been the main strategy for driving sales the past several years. Not that it's alone in doing so in the industry; but I think Sailor puts in even less effort than Aurora and Pelikan to produce new looks in individual batches of resins, and certainly hasn't followed Platinum's approach in ‘carving’ new patterns with the tooling for each year's new release in the Fuji Shunkei series of #3776 Century pens.

[mke]

26 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

but I think Sailor puts in even less effort than Aurora and Pelikan to produce new looks

 

You are absolutely right.

 

Have a look at the LE series of Pelikan: https://penstylo.blogspot.com/p/pelikan-limited-editions.html

Many are sooooo similar. They should have a look at the Pen of the Year series of Graf-von-Faber-Castell. Much better done.

 

Then comes Sailor with even less creativity. 👎

You can have any color from Sailor as long as it is black - or you have to pay $1k++

 

[Ronderick]

45 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

In a way, how Sailor has been incessantly churning out limited or special editions by the dozen every year, of the same models and formulated using the same ‘library’ of single-hued resins available to the factory, instead of venturing into different body materials and finishes, has apparently been the main strategy for driving sales the past several years. 

 

Now that you've mentioned it, one major change which Sailor did to their updated naginata nibs was to remove their compatibility with the other profit and professional gear models. It used to be that you get the naginata nib on the standard PF or PG and buy another limited model PF/PG and swap the nibs. With the new naginata that's not even possible.... (sigh)

 

Oh how much I would love to equip one of the new bi-color nib Shikiiori FP with a naginata nib....

 

[Ronderick]

28 minutes ago, mke said:

 

You are absolutely right.

 

Have a look at the LE series of Pelikan: https://penstylo.blogspot.com/p/pelikan-limited-editions.html

Many are sooooo similar. They should have a look at the Pen of the Year series of Graf-von-Faber-Castell. Much better done.

 

Then comes Sailor with even less creativity. 👎

You can have any color from Sailor as long as it is black - or you have to pay $1k++

 

 

Haha... frankly for Pelikan, I've already invested a fortune just trying to collect their standard offerings - the souveran range from m400 through m1000, the classic 200s (don't forget the annual color releases), and the occasional M101Ns - and no I'm never gonna start on the twists. Unfortunately, they got only standard selection of nibs, unless you're planning to travel to their factory in person sometimes or hunt down some old exotic variations.

 

Aurora definitely offer tons of color and pattern variations, and I'm interested in their CEF, CF, and CM choices. However, their pens each comes with a big price tag, so even trying to collect an 88 or 2, an optima, and maybe an Internazionale or Ipsilon requires a bit of cash.

 

As for creativity... I have to say that Sailor do offer some interesting models from their long history, though finding one for the right price is quite a quest by itself. But yeah, judging from their anniversary pens this year... they gotta think of something better...