Why Sailor?

[Arkanabar]

The phrase that put the Japanese onto improving quality control, and created their total quality management/ process control mindset, was this statement by W. Edwards Deming:  "Improving quality control lowers costs."

 

How this works is that if you don't make mistakes, you don't have to do rework, and you have less waste.  These bring costs up a lot more than fixing a process that leads to bad parts.

 

The goal of TQM is to eliminate variability from the manufacturing process.  And the more of something you make, the easier it is to do.  If you have a 0.01% error rate, it's easier to analyze 100/1,000,000 than 1 in 10000.  That's why QC (e.g., out of the box nib alignment) is better in the lower-priced lines.

[lionelc]

wouldnt call myself an afficianado but i have tried most of the sailor nibs including a couple that are laughably impractical for me.  i own 1 sailor pen and it houses one of my favourite nibs - the king of pen medium.  as different from the rest of sailor's line up as a pelikan m1000 nib is from the m800s.  as has been remarked upon in many previous threads the king of pen has an achilles' heel - its ink capacity.

[Turquoise88]

18 hours ago, Wolverine1 said:

Well, in the world of fountain pens, I think it is sort of an unrealistic expectation to expect that a new fountain pen will work perfectly right out of the box. Quality control just does not seem to be such that each and every pen works perfectly, unfortunately, so I buy mostly gently used pens, or pens from vendors who take the trouble to check the new pen out and troubleshoot it should they find that there are quality control issues.

Agreed, but, that said, I have purchased a fair number of pens new and have had nib issues, to the point of return or repair,  only on two (my only Sailor being one of them, the other a Stipula). I’ve sometimes wanted to fine-tune the nib a bit so it wrote a bit more smoothly or more to my particular tastes, and I think that’s where the “works perfectly” notion comes into play. I’ve found that most fountain pens I’ve purchased new are serviceable at the very least, if not quite nice to write with.   

 

I’m noticing that more vendors are starting to offer testing services before shipping pens out and they usually don’t charge for it, so that’s a great way to at least make sure the nib is functional and doesn’t have serious issues.  I also enjoy buying vintage or pre-owned pens from places that do their own restoration and have a good return policy 😉

[Turquoise88]

1 hour ago, lionelc said:

wouldnt call myself an afficianado but i have tried most of the sailor nibs including a couple that are laughably impractical for me.  i own 1 sailor pen and it houses one of my favourite nibs - the king of pen medium.  as different from the rest of sailor's line up as a pelikan m1000 nib is from the m800s.  as has been remarked upon in many previous threads the king of pen has an achilles' heel - its ink capacity.

Ink capacity is not a deal-breaker IMHO.  Part of the enjoyment of fountain pens, for me, is the filling process, and I don’t usually use any pen for such an extended period of time that I would find it annoying to refill 😉

[Turquoise88]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:23 PM, langere said:

I agree that the bodies of Sailors are rather unimaginative in their most popular model types ... I am not sure what you call "scratchy" - you might have gotten a bum nib.  But many different types of nibs are spectacular.  I like Sailor nibs because they make it possible for me to write as precisely as possible.  I find the 21k nibs actually to be less user-friendly than the 14k nibs.  And of course there are all kinds of varieties of nibs that Sailor produces.

I may have gotten a bad nib — it actually scratched the paper and it was a medium-fine, not the finest where I might expect more feedback.  I do hear wonderful things about Sailor nibs (as well as most Japanese nibs); I do wish they offered a full range for each model, because I prefer the wider/broader nibs when it comes to non-western nibs, and it seems most of the Sailor pens I’ve been attracted to (by color since they otherwise all look alike!) only offer the medium-fine or a choice between fine and medium-fine.  

 

I was reading an article recently talking about gold nibs and the conclusion was that 14K nibs offer the best combination of durability and flexibility; as you go up in the K (e.g., 18K and 21K) they become softer, and, as you mentioned, not so user-friendly because it takes a bit more practice to get to the happy spot of pressure and flex. 

[Turquoise88]

20 hours ago, TheDutchGuy said:

 

Why not wait until you find yourself near a brick and mortar shop, so you can try before you buy? Personally I love Sailor, but to each his own. If you’ve had a so-so experience, then I’d say better safe than sorry.

Good idea — hopefully this pandemic won’t last forever and we can get back to being able to go to pen shows as well!

[A Smug Dill]

Out of the Japanese ‘Big Three” fountain pen brands, I like Sailor the best. Aside from its cheapest models such as the (MSRP ¥700 ex tax) model 11-0073-120 desk pen, and Fude de Mannen pens with untipped steel nibs, I have not come across one new Sailor pen, out of easily more than thirty we have here, with a nib that was scratchy out-of-the-box. (Just to be clear, by ‘scratchy’ I mean lacerating and/or ripping fibres from the paper surface even when little or no downward pressure is applied to pen strokes, and not only is there undue friction as the nib moves across the page, but you can also feel with a fingertip afterwards the rough tracks left by the metal on the paper surface.)

 

Even the (MSRP ¥2000 ex tax) Sailor Profit Junior pens — five out of five, in my experience — write well in spite of their cheap-looking nibs that are uncharacteristic of the brand; and their screw-caps prevent ink evaporation quite effectively to boot. All seven standard Sailor nib widths and types, including Zoom and Music, were offered as options on the steel-nibbed Young Profit (aka 1911 Young) models, instead of holding some back exclusively for the gold-nibbed models in the Profit, Professional Gear and Promenade series. I love how precise writing with an 1911-imprint EF, F or even MF nib feels; and Sailor's signature grind on the nib tipping allows me to squeeze quite an impressive range of line widths out of even just an M nib, let alone a Zoom nib.

 

I'm not generally keen about Sailor's limited or special editions in the Profit and Professional Gear series; there is little variety and little of interest in most of the (typically single-hued) resins used in their bodies. That said, the resin Sailor uses for the Profit Standard, Pro Gear Slim and Promenade feels subjectively better in my hand that that Platinum uses for the #3776 Century models PNB-13000 and PNB-15000. Sailor also had some interesting models and finishes such as the Koshu-Inden and the Kabazaiku that don't break the bank; and I absolutely love the Pro Gear Slim Mini, in spite of it coming only with MF nibs normally. (I'm not so keen on the Precious Wood of the World series, in which the pen bodies are too narrow and the snap-caps are not as good as the screw-caps on ‘lesser’ models.)

 

I've seen people complain about the robustness of Sailor's converters now and then; but I've never had one break on me or appear structurally compromised. They all disassemble and reassemble easily, for deep cleaning and/or lubrication if the user so chooses. I have no problem with their ink capacity; if I did, I'd simply refill empty ink cartridges, which have a higher ink capacity.

[Arkanabar]

54 minutes ago, Turquoise88 said:

I may have gotten a bad nib — it actually scratched the paper and it was a medium-fine, not the finest where I might expect more feedback. <snip>

Yeah, that's a bit much to put up with, and well beyond what's meant by feedback.  That is most likely a misaligned nib, though it could be that the tipping wasn't adequately radiused in the slit.  It's possible to correct misalignment with careful manipulation, but I doubt that a costly pen would be the first I'd try it on.  I've reached the point where I'm willing to correct misaligned tines with any of my pens.  Other issues are beyond my skill.  For example, I have a couple of Stipula Splashes, which closely resemble the Dollar 717i, where fully seating the nibs causes the tines to spread out enough to prevent capillary flow.

[BaronWulfraed]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:50 AM, genedan said:

 I'm interested in maybe trying a zoom to see if I'll like the line width better.

 

Line width of a Zoom nib varies with the pen angle to paper: thinnest when held vertical, thickest when held as flat to the paper as possible while still having the nib touching the paper.

[Wolverine1]

I only have Sailor 1911 Realo pens, the 1911 model with a piston-fill mechanism. I have gotten rid of all the other Sailor pens models I owned, and now I have 3 of the 1911 Realos. Two of the pens were bought from John Mottishaw, and one I got as a gift which was supplied by Richard Binder. All 3 of them were tested and the imperfections were taken care of before I got them . I am very happy with my Sailors.

[sandy101]

I like the 2 medium sailor nibs I have. Both wrote out of the box (one is in a sailor pro-gear Cosmos and the other in a Cross Peerless).  

 

I have found that on Japanese paper - such as Apicia - Japanese nibs are not as "scratchy" as they are on Western paper. However, the "scratchiness" is much like writing with a 1B pencil or 2B pencil. 

 

If you want the equivalent of a buttery smooth writing experience, I would suggest going for a broad nib on a Sailor (or Platinum).

 

The only issue I have with Sailor is that their convertor doesn't hold much ink - it needs filled every couple of days instead of once a week - making it a difficult pen for EDC.

 

Sailor's inks are excellent. 

 

 

 

 

[BaronWulfraed]

14 minutes ago, sandy101 said:

The only issue I have with Sailor is that their convertor doesn't hold much ink - it needs filled every couple of days instead of once a week - making it a difficult pen for EDC.

 

Boo Hoo...

 

I used to have to refill my Sheaffer 440 -- with the rather larger capacity squeeze bulb converter -- three times a week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday -- Friday would carry me through that day and weekend homework). This was in my high-school days (taking a high school Gregg shorthand class really burned through ink 😱 [yeah, between 440 and Gregg, I've dated myself]).

 

[Turquoise88]

UPDATE!  I took the plunge and bought another Sailor, the Harusame (Spring Rain) from the Shikiori Sound of Rain series: https://en.sailor.co.jp/product/11-3059/  

 

Wow!  The nib is fantastic — I must have gotten a bad one on my previous and only Sailor purchase because now I can see why everyone raves about the nibs!  My previous one was also a MF, but this one is smooth and puts down a true medium/fine line — unlike my other MF which was scratchy, skipped, and was more like an EF nib.  The actual pen is very true to the image online in terms of color, but I was a bit unprepared for the feel of the body itself. It is a matte resin and, while very smooth, has a warm, soft feel to it that is highly unusual. 

 

Hopefully this isn’t an anomaly (as someone else noted, their experience has been hit and miss) but I’m looking forward to putting the pen through its paces and will be interested to see what else comes out of the Sailor shop in the future. 

[langere]

I am so glad that you like your latest acquisition!  I think you did get the exceptional the first time around - Sailor has a great QC program.

 

Enjoy!

 

Erick

[PolishSoldier]

I have 1911 large & I really enjoy using it. There is considerable feedback but nib is not scratchy (at least not mine). Its reliable and classic design appeal to me.

 

Is it expensive? I bought mine few years ago directly from Japan, yen was cheap at that time so deal was IMO great, paid about 50-55% of regular shop price at my place.

[Turquoise88]

1 hour ago, PolishSoldier said:

I bought mine few years ago directly from Japan, yen was cheap at that time so deal was IMO great, paid about 50-55% of regular shop price at my place.

 

I wound up buying mine directly from Japan as well, at a substantial savings over other retail prices I found online. Since I bought it, I’m seeing the prices go up everywhere, including from Japan, though I’m not sure why.  Just shows it pays to shop around!

[PolishSoldier]

Generally prices of many pens ara up (maybe except MB) Just year ago 1911 L & WM Exception was in my place at similar price (around 300$) now both are around 400$.

3 minutes ago, Turquoise88 said:

 

I wound up buying mine directly from Japan as well, at a substantial savings over other retail prices I found online. Since I bought it, I’m seeing the prices go up everywhere, including from Japan, though I’m not sure why.  Just shows it pays to shop around!

 

[inkstainedruth]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:28 PM, Turquoise88 said:

UPDATE!  I took the plunge and bought another Sailor, the Harusame (Spring Rain) from the Shikiori Sound of Rain series: https://en.sailor.co.jp/product/11-3059/  

 

Not a color for me, but the darker lavender one (not sure of the color name) in your link sure is pretty....

I LOVE the MF nib on my 1911S Loch Ness monster.  Just REALLY wishing now I'd ordered the pen with the music nib and put the MF on the Wicked Witch of the West pen instead.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Turquoise88]

2 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Not a color for me, but the darker lavender one (not sure of the color name) in your link sure is pretty.... Just REALLY wishing now I'd ordered the pen with the music nib and put the MF on the Wicked Witch of the West pen instead.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Does Sailor sell their nibs separately somewhere? Just checked a couple online venues and didn’t see any. If not, I guess you’ll have to buy another pen with the music nib!!!

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, Turquoise88 said:

Does Sailor sell their nibs separately somewhere?

 

As retail SKUs specifically? No. To fountain pen OEMs such as Cross and Taccia? Apparently so.

  

4 hours ago, Turquoise88 said:

If not, I guess you’ll have to buy another pen with the music nib!!!

 

If the user doesn't mind the possible slight mismatch in colours, then there are options: the screw-in gripping sections, complete with nib and feed, can be swapped around between Sailor Profit Standard and Professional Gear Slim pens any time; and the nib and feed are friction-fit, and can be pulled out to be swapped around between gripping sections, for mixing-and-matching at a lower level.