Why Sailor?

[Turquoise88]

I’ve only owned one Sailor pen; the nib was scratchy and I wound up returning it.  Since then I haven’t had much interest in the brand although I know it is very popular.  Recently, I saw an advert for the Shikiori Sound of Rain series and was attracted to one of the models. I’m now trying to decide if I want to give Sailor another try.  The problem is they all look alike to me except for size and color variation and I find the design to be similar to a lot of other fountain pens, so it doesn’t stand out on that front either. 

 

With that in mind, Sailor owners and afficionados, what do you like (or dislike) about Sailor?  And what can you say about the pros and cons of the different models?

[langere]

I agree that the bodies of Sailors are rather unimaginative in their most popular model types (1911, Professional Gear/Sapporo).  I have the black ones and now they have lots of different colors and plastics, but basically still the same bodies. This only changes with the higher-priced models.

 

However, the nibs are special.  I am not sure what you call "scratchy" - you might have gotten a bum nib.  But many different types of nibs are spectacular.  I like Sailor nibs because they make it possible for me to write as precisely as possible.  I find the 21k nibs actually to be less user-friendly than the 14k nibs.  And of course there are all kinds of varieties of nibs that Sailor produces.

 

I know I have used rather vague terminology ("precise," "user-friendly"), but Sailor nibs, if properly tuned, are some of the best, if not the best, on the market.

 

So - I recommend you try again and see if you don't like how the pen you are thinking about writes.  No pen is good for everybody; Sailor might just not be your thing.  But your instinct to try again is the right one - who knows?  The one you are considering might be just what you are looking for.

 

Erick

[peroride]

The big J3 (Pilot Platinum and Sailor (PPS)) I found, all write well with good consistent QC, though some can have a bad run (uh.. cracked feed Curidas) Pilots have been glassy smooth, Sailors have a pencilly feelback and Platinum kinda in the middle. I would suggest you try all and gravitate to what feels best. On looks, Sailor seems bolder with color.  I like Sailors because of the way they write: EF, F, MF, Zoom, KOP (M) and specialty all have been a delight. The hand is the judge; it really is that simple. Plus I like the classic look of both the Pro-Gear flat top and traditional cigar and the girth feels a tad thicker than PP toward MB 146 which to me is the perfect hand balance feel for me. I usually go for conservative colors so all those color block Sailors do nothing for me; it's all about the nib.

[aimi]

Sailor pens generally seem to have nice ergonomics. I like that the nibs have some character rather than being glassy. Lots and lots and lots of LE options-- I really appreciate that Sailor doesn't shy away from sparkles, bright colours, and fun finial designs over say, Pilot, which barely does any (as much as I enjoy their pens). I feel like there's a colour combo for everyone out there for Sailor.

[Wolverine1]

High quality pens. If the nib was scratch, well, go get it smoothened.   User error.

[Temenos]

Because people are too afraid to have their own opinions.

[TgeekB]

4 hours ago, Wolverine1 said:

High quality pens. If the nib was scratch, well, go get it smoothened.   User error.

How is a scratchy nib user error?

[Temenos]

1 hour ago, TgeekB said:

How is a scratchy nib user error?

It isn't. I've had about half of my Sailor pens OOTB misaligned. You'd have to realign them yourself. You don't really need someone else to do it. It's fairly simple to do with a loupe and fingers.

 

But do it at your own risk. In my own experience, the Sailor nibs are quite durable, I don't baby them when I try to align them. I literally can bend it 90 degrees and it will bend right back and not break.

[genedan]

If I get a Sailor, I have to get at least a broad which writes about as wide or maybe a little wider than a western medium. The gold broad-nibbed pens I have are of really good quality, and write smoothly. The broad can sometimes be too small, as I noticed my Imperial Black model writes finer than my Persimmon Pro Gear Slim, even though they are both broad. I'm interested in maybe trying a zoom to see if I'll like the line width better.

 

I have tried F and MF which are too scratchy for me which means excluding any of the special edition pro gear slim models that only come in MF. This is especially so when I use a heavy paper like Rhodia. My wife likes the MF though so I got her a Harusame.

[Wolverine1]

2 hours ago, TgeekB said:

How is a scratchy nib user error?

It is user error on your part because you should have checked if the tines were misaligned and corrected that problem instead of returning the pen and giving up on Sailor pens. Also, maybe, you ought to have used a reputable vendor who checks out everypen before selling it, ensuring that you would get a pen that would have worked right out of the box. In the USA, I have bought my Sailors from either WWW.nibs.com or from Richard Binder. Sure, their prices are a bit higher, but, my 4 Sailor pens have all worked flawlessly right out of the box.

[TheDutchGuy]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:34 AM, Turquoise88 said:

I’m now trying to decide if I want to give Sailor another try.

 

Why not wait until you find yourself near a brick and mortar shop, so you can try before you buy? Personally I love Sailor, but to each his own. If you’ve had a so-so experience, then I’d say better safe than sorry.

[Honeybadgers]

1 hour ago, Wolverine1 said:

It is user error on your part because you should have checked if the tines were misaligned and corrected that problem instead of returning the pen and giving up on Sailor pens. Also, maybe, you ought to have used a reputable vendor who checks out everypen before selling it, ensuring that you would get a pen that would have worked right out of the box. In the USA, I have bought my Sailors from either WWW.nibs.com or from Richard Binder. Sure, their prices are a bit higher, but, my 4 Sailor pens have all worked flawlessly right out of the box.

 

Well this is a needlessly toxic and (in my opinion) wildly unreasonable thing to say.

 

Some people can't afford the 15-30% markup that many retailers charge. For some brands that unfortunately ARE known for bad quality control like visconti, this advice is kind of reasonable.

 

But for a japanese pen, no. They're famously good with QC. Yes, there are obviously going to be occasional failures, and I'd not write a brand off based on one experience, but you're being quite rude about it.

 

As for sailor, I personally don't really want to own any more of their products. I have two 1911 large realo's, a 1911 standard with a 21k zoom, and a pro gear slim 14k EF. I like the way they write (be aware that if you were feeling "scratch" make sure it isn't just the normal feedback of the nib - ALL sailors have a "sharp 4h pencil" kinda feel, but they shouldn't be catching the paper.) but I find sailor as a company doesn't respect its customers, with arbitrary price hikes and poor user experience quality like their horrid ink bottle design, whereas companies like pilot found a way to give us the same fantastic bottle for the iroshizuku line, but DROP the price 30%. Sailor's just been hiking prices left and right.

 

So unless you want a specialty nib, like the zoom or one of the top end nagahara, Or you REALLY like the feedback their nibs have, I don't see a lot of point in their pens. 

[TgeekB]

4 hours ago, Modus Ponens said:

It isn't. I've had about half of my Sailor pens OOTB misaligned. You'd have to realign them yourself. You don't really need someone else to do it. It's fairly simple to do with a loupe and fingers.

 

But do it at your own risk. In my own experience, the Sailor nibs are quite durable, I don't baby them when I try to align them. I literally can bend it 90 degrees and it will bend right back and not break.

So, since I’m rather new to this, shouldn’t we expect the nib to be in working condition when we receive it if purchased new?

[TgeekB]

2 hours ago, Wolverine1 said:

It is user error on your part because you should have checked if the tines were misaligned and corrected that problem instead of returning the pen and giving up on Sailor pens. Also, maybe, you ought to have used a reputable vendor who checks out everypen before selling it, ensuring that you would get a pen that would have worked right out of the box. In the USA, I have bought my Sailors from either WWW.nibs.com or from Richard Binder. Sure, their prices are a bit higher, but, my 4 Sailor pens have all worked flawlessly right out of the box.

Im not the one who purchased a Sailor pen so it’s not “you should have”. I merely asked a question. 

[Wolverine1]

14 minutes ago, TgeekB said:

So, since I’m rather new to this, shouldn’t we expect the nib to be in working condition when we receive it if purchased new?

Well, in the world of fountain pens, I think it is sort of an unrealistic expectation to expect that a new fountain pen will work perfectly right out of the box. Quality control just does not seem to be such that each and every pen works perfectly, unfortunately, so I buy mostly gently used pens, or pens from vendors who take the trouble to check the new pen out and troubleshoot it should they find that there are quality control issues.

[Honeybadgers]

50 minutes ago, TgeekB said:

So, since I’m rather new to this, shouldn’t we expect the nib to be in working condition when we receive it if purchased new?

 

Yes and now.

 

Like with any product, there will be QC failures. Consumer goods just have a higher rate than professional goods (and it's why professional goods are so much pricier - not the materials, but the QC) because QC costs are almost exponential.

 

Some companies ABSOLUTELY abuse this, like visconti. Their QC is SHAMEFUL for what they charge. But others, like sailor/pilot/platinum are far, far better.

 

But problems happen. It's silly to expect a retailer to test every sub-$200 pen they get to sell. Some will offer it as a service, yes, but as long as the retailer will take the pen back if it's defective, that's just how you should be expecting the service to work. If I buy anything, I don't expect that it will ALWAYS work. I just expect that the retailer I bought it from will accept it back with no hassle if I do have a problem.

[inkstainedruth]

I have three Sailor pens at this point, and my experience has been, well, mixed....

The zoom nib on my first pen, the Pro Gear Slim Purple Cosmos, is interesting, but I think writes a little on the dry side -- or, at least, I haven't found the ideal ink for it yet (I chose that nib do use for drawing).  I got lucky on the pen itself, finding it still in stock at Cult Pens towards the end of its run, so saved money because I didn't have to pay the US distributor's markup or VAT.

The two Pro-Gear Slims?  Those I didn't get a deal on because -- as North American exclusives -- would be the same price no matter where I bought them. The music nib on the Wicked Witch of the West pen is VERY wet, while the pen itself is GORGEOUS; the MF nib on the Loch Ness Monster, OTOH?  LOVE it -- but I'm less enamored of the color of the pen itself, which is not the blue-grey of all the promo photos, but more of a teal blue; I have gotten more used to it now, but was afraid that I had been   And now I'm wishing that I had switched which nib was for which pen....

The advantage of Sailor over the other two standard Japanese pens is the larger range of nib sizes.  But truthfully?  None of the nibs on the three pens I have truly wow me the way the nibs on my Pilots (two Metropolitans -- one medium and one stub; and two Decimos (one fine and one stub, and both Decimo nibs are 18K) do....  

That of course does not mean that I DON'T still want a Pro-Gear Slim Blue Dwarf -- because I do; it just means that I have to think about the price a whole lot, and also what nib to get if I think I can afford it (I hesitated on the Purple Cosmos a long time because I couldn't really justify the extra cost for the "LE" rod stock, then got the pen basically on clearance).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[TgeekB]

1 hour ago, Honeybadgers said:

 

Yes and now.

 

Like with any product, there will be QC failures. Consumer goods just have a higher rate than professional goods (and it's why professional goods are so much pricier - not the materials, but the QC) because QC costs are almost exponential.

 

Some companies ABSOLUTELY abuse this, like visconti. Their QC is SHAMEFUL for what they charge. But others, like sailor/pilot/platinum are far, far better.

 

But problems happen. It's silly to expect a retailer to test every sub-$200 pen they get to sell. Some will offer it as a service, yes, but as long as the retailer will take the pen back if it's defective, that's just how you should be expecting the service to work. If I buy anything, I don't expect that it will ALWAYS work. I just expect that the retailer I bought it from will accept it back with no hassle if I do have a problem.

Thanks for your input.

I agree nothing is 100%. It also seems nibs and tines are delicate which require them to be in near perfect condition to function the way we want.

There should be some expectation of performance though. I would think a manufacturer meeting or succeeding expectations would be quite popular. Then again, this is a hobby where people like to tinker, so probably more inclined to enjoy adjusting tines from time to time (say that 5 times fast!) 😂

[TheDutchGuy]

@HoneybadgersYou nailed it (as usual).

 

Regarding the price hikes, somehow I’ve never really noticed those where I live. Pro Gear Slims have consistently been priced around €160, workhorse inks around €18 for a 50mL bottle and nano-particle inks like kiwaguro at around €28 per bottle. I consider their entry-level gold-nibbed pens like the PGS to be bargains. The KoP, on the other hands, has always seemed overpriced to me. The inks I mentioned are not inexpensive, but standard Sailor Blue (formerly know as Jentle Blue) happens to be my fav blue (it shades wonderfully and sheens like crazy in moderately wet pens) while inks like kiwaguro and souboku seem to be generally revered to an extent that no-one challenges their price point. 

 

Regarding fancy colours, LE’s and generally re-hashing the same pens to milk out the market: they do that. Having said that, doesn’t everyone? Some new Custom74 colours have just hit the shelves while Platinum finds new looks for the 3776. Personally, all of that leaves me stone cold. I guess I’m blessed by being impervious to a new colour and not having collector tendencies.

 

Rationally, I guess it makes sense to get a PGS as an EDC and something like a 1911L as a top-quality workhorse (both with different nibs) and then you basically have all the Sailors you need.

 

 

[Teterman2005]

I like my sailors.....when I first bought my M-promenade (Japan market 1911), I thought it was “scratchy”, but I was brand new to fountain pens and only had a vintage sheaffer feather touch to compare.  I definitely understand what the OP is saying, but it only took a few days for me to totally “get” the pencil-like feedback of Sailor nibs.  I love it now, especially because to me it embodies years of Sailor fine-tuning a particular “feel” for their pens.  Some folks don’t like it, so newbies should compare (if possible) to pilot and platinum nibs.  Not everybody has a brick-and-mortar store around the corner though...