Which 'permanent' black ink would you recommend for use in EF nibs?

[Maurizio]

2 hours ago, Tas said:

Ooo. You mention R&K Document Black (which I've yet to try) but their Archival Ink is brilliant - both in terms of permanence and in darkness of line.

It's also really fuss free. It's lived in my Pilot 912PO nib for I don't know how long and it always starts first time.

I've found Noodler's Heart of Darkness to be really good too displaying none of the "issues" I find are associated with it's cousin Noodler's Black (cloggy)

Good luck.
 

 

That’s been my experience with Noodler’s Black with my Falcon, even after the addition of glycerin. Based on your comment I will try HOD. 

 

Are either of the R & K inks you mention pigmented inks?

[Tas]

7 hours ago, yazeh said:

Tas, what is the R& K Archival? You meat Sketchink Lotte? I thought they had only Dokumentus?

Silly me. Apologies. It’s the De Atrementis Archival ink I meant. I’ve not tried any if the R&K sketch inks, yet. 

[yazeh]

4 hours ago, Tas said:

Silly me. Apologies. It’s the De Atrementis Archival ink I meant. I’ve not tried any if the R&K sketch inks, yet. 

Thanks. 

The Sketchinks are fun. Though they need good pens, otherwise they might dry out.... 

I haven't tried any of the DeAtrementis line.. 

[Tas]

Just filled my Sheaffer Taranis with Mont Blanc Permanent Black.

SO DARK. Never ever had an issue with any MB ink. This one is waterproof but is so saturated that a lot of ink washes away first but leaving a really legible line behind nonetheless.

 

 

[Maurizio]

3 hours ago, Tas said:

Just filled my Sheaffer Taranis with Mont Blanc Permanent Black.

SO DARK. Never ever had an issue with any MB ink. This one is waterproof but is so saturated that a lot of ink washes away first but leaving a really legible line behind nonetheless.

 

 

 

I’d be happy to try it if it’s a non-pigmented ink. 

[austinwft]

2 hours ago, Maurizio said:

 

I’d be happy to try it if it’s a non-pigmented ink. 

 

I wondered if it was a pigmented ink years ago before purchasing but never determined with absolute certainty if it was or not and have since quit caring since it has always behaved so well in every pen I've used it in. 

 

I don't like writing with fine nibs much but this thread got me to dig out the finest nib I own and ink it up with some MB Permanent Black. A fine Pilot Vanishing Point nib unit from Indy-Pen-Dance with Linda's DailyItalic Grind which feels so smooth with this ink.

[shostakovich]

I have both the R & K and the De Atramentis black inks. I like the De Atramentis best, although the R & K is pretty good as well. This is using f nibs. (Pelikan and the like). The De Ataramentis dries on most papers in 20-30 seconds, and on cheap papers even more quickly.

[MuddyWaters]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:08 AM, Arkanabar said:

Mercian,

I'm going to make a very different recommendation from the others.

Try Noodler's black, diluted with distilled water in series from 5:1 to 2:3, to see if any of those meet your needs.

 

I agree with this. Reading the op, it sounds like the noodlers black evaporated a little and became too concentrated. 

 

As for nib creep, it's the result of oily inks. Kiwa guro is the most lubricated permanent black but it also nib creeps.

 

Platinum carbon black is more watery than kiwa guro and less oily, so it creeps less but it runs in paper more leading to feathering on cheap paper or a subtle widening of the line on good paper. 

 

Noodlers black is super saturated and is not very watery, so it can stand getting diluted with water like arkanabar suggested. 

 

Another alternative are black inks that aren't officially permanent but have some water resistance. Pilot black is good for that and we'll lubricated but it's not very pigmented and sort of grayish. Pelikan black is the drier alternative, with more pigmentation and blackness. The latter is my favourite everyday black ink. 

[Arkanabar]

On 5/21/2021 at 1:22 PM, MuddyWaters said:

 

I agree with this. Reading the op, it sounds like the noodlers black evaporated a little and became too concentrated. 

 

As for nib creep, it's the result of oily inks. Kiwa guro is the most lubricated permanent black but it also nib creeps.

 

Platinum carbon black is more watery than kiwa guro and less oily, so it creeps less but it runs in paper more leading to feathering on cheap paper or a subtle widening of the line on good paper. 

 

Noodlers black is super saturated and is not very watery, so it can stand getting diluted with water like arkanabar suggested. 

 

Another alternative are black inks that aren't officially permanent but have some water resistance. Pilot black is good for that and we'll lubricated but it's not very pigmented and sort of grayish. Pelikan black is the drier alternative, with more pigmentation and blackness. The latter is my favourite everyday black ink. 

Noodler's inks are nearly all absurdly saturated.  Nathan Tardif is apparently the sort of Yankee who believes in getting (and providing) a bargain, who believes, as John D. Rockefeller did, in providing product for the common man, who must have it cheap and good.  (In fact, Standard Oil's kerosene was so cheap and good that kerosene lamps were price-competitive with incandescent light bulbs for lighting in some markets all the way into the 1960s.)

 

A fair number on this board are of the opinion that Nathan actually INTENDS for his inks to be diluted.  Some wag here once posted the results of using Noodler's Black dilutions, from 10% to 90% water, and all were legible.  I've never had Noodler's Black, but I dilute Bad Black Moccasin  1:1 to improve its behavior (without affecting the darkness of the line, as far as I can tell), and Heart of Darkness 3:2 for being desperately poor.

 

IMX, Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black is quite water-resistant, and a legible line usually remains after wetting.  The 2007 Clark's Ink Sampler rated its water resistance as Very Good.  It's also quite saturated, but my understanding is that it is an aniline dye ink, not pigmented.

 

Anyways, when you decide, @Mercian, let us know what you chose and why.

 

[MuddyWaters]

23 hours ago, Arkanabar said:

Noodler's inks are nearly all absurdly saturated.  Nathan Tardif is apparently the sort of Yankee who believes in getting (and providing) a bargain, who believes, as John D. Rockefeller did, in providing product for the common man, who must have it cheap and good.  (In fact, Standard Oil's kerosene was so cheap and good that kerosene lamps were price-competitive with incandescent light bulbs for lighting in some markets all the way into the 1960s.)

 

A fair number on this board are of the opinion that Nathan actually INTENDS for his inks to be diluted.  Some wag here once posted the results of using Noodler's Black dilutions, from 10% to 90% water, and all were legible.  I've never had Noodler's Black, but I dilute Bad Black Moccasin  1:1 to improve its behavior (without affecting the darkness of the line, as far as I can tell), and Heart of Darkness 3:2 for being desperately poor.

 

IMX, Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black is quite water-resistant, and a legible line usually remains after wetting.  The 2007 Clark's Ink Sampler rated its water resistance as Very Good.  It's also quite saturated, but my understanding is that it is an aniline dye ink, not pigmented.

 

Anyways, when you decide, @Mercian, let us know what you chose and why.

 

 

I think I may have to try Noodler's Black in dilution. One other reason to dilute it is that people find that it takes eons to dry. I think that it takes that long to dry because there is just too much ink-stuff concentrated in the solution, and that diluted Noodler's Black would conversely output a reasonable about of the stuff, probably shortening dry time and minimizing the risk of smudging/smearing. But by diluting the Noodler's Black, one is likely to lose out on some of his brilliance, and maybe also its already little lubrication. I'd have to test it to see. 

 

I have one of those liters of Pelikan Black though so I'm not pressed to do this. 

[yazeh]

It also depends on your paper. I've been using some bulletproof blacks and the dry time become acceptable on Rhodia or more absorbent papers.. .

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, yazeh said:

I've been using some bulletproof blacks and the dry become acceptable on Rhodia or more absorbent papers.. .

 

Dry time, or dry inks?

[yazeh]

14 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Dry time, or dry inks?

Time! corrected, thanks!

[maclink]

I use permanent black ink for work and have settled with MB Permanent Black.  It's VERY dark (as I'm sure other options can be), and it behaves well.  I haven't had issue with it at all when used with a Platinum 3776 M,  a MB 145 F nib and now, a Lamy 2K F.  It writes every time and with consistent flow, even when pen not used for up to 2 weeks.  The ink doesn't cling to plastic parts so it washes out easily (a property that MB likely ensured since they expect the ink to be used in their various pens that mainly use piston fillers and which aren't easily disassembled for thorough cleaning).

 

Another ink that has surprised me is Rohrer & Klingner's Dokumentus black.  Again... very dark and very water resistant.  I left a TWSBI Eco with a F nib inked up with it for ~2+ months.  Writes every time.  This ink clings to plastic surface, making it difficult to appreciate your ink level even when using a demonstrator pen as this Eco!  However, my jaw dropped when cleaning time came.  The ink washed out quite easily as a water-based ink with no visible traces on the inside of the reservoir.  

 

Platinum Pigmented ink, I have to be careful with.  It can be difficult to clean as I learnt after filling one of my M205's with it.  I used it exclusively until the pen was empty and still, I had ink clinging to parts of the reservoir the piston didn't reach.