Gutenberg Urkundentinte G10 schwarz (iron gall)

[yazeh]

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

 

A Brown-black ink you say? 🤔
On your photos it reminds me of the ink used by Leonardo da Vinci on his sketches (the Royal Collection here has loads of them. Lots of them were put on display at galleries around the country to commemorate the 400th anniversary of his death, and I was lucky enough to get to two of the exhibitions).

I'll try my best to answer your questions:

If Da Vinci used an IG ink, what happens that the ink writes watery black, oxidizes to black and the over time it turns to brown. 

 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

So, my interest has been piqued by this stuff (presuming that I can find any vendor who is willing to ship it to the UK, and can get it past HMRC at a non-obscene price. Ha!).

There are sellers who sell to UK. 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

 

 

My only other experience of iron-gall inks to-date has been with R&K Salix & Scabiosa (both of which I understand to be relatively 'low-iron' inks), so I would like to ask some questions about this Urkundentinte before I try to buy it:

1) does it darken further over time, or do your photos show it at in its final, darkest, shade?

Ir depends on the paper. The more absorbent the paper, the more oxidization you will see. But I checked some of my notes.. I don't see any discernible changement. 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

You say that it doesn't work in all pens, and I see that you are using it with flex pens, so:
2) Would you say that would only work in the very-wettest pens - e.g.s pens with an ebonite feed, flex pens, or vintage pens?

If you have ever made IG ink or used the dip pen variety, it is very watery. That's how the ink is. Watery. You won't see much with a fine Pilot Metro. At least in my experience. 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

3) Would you rule it out from use it in piston-fillers (as I believe the 'other' Gutenberg does on their description of their 'Bible Ink')?

Personally I would put it in any pen.  IGs are the safest inks around. 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

 

4) I am thinking of using it in an early-1970s Parker 45 Flighter that has a 14k gold nib.
The pen can be fully disassembled for cleaning, and contains only plastics, stainless steel, and the 14k gold of the nib, so I am not afraid of corrosion, and not very worried about the prospect of the pen's feed becoming clogged. That said, my memory of that pen is that it is not tuned to be a very 'wet' writer.
Do you happen to own a Parker 45? Do you think that this Urkundentinte would work well in it?

No I don't have a Parker 45. 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

Or would you recommend that I invest in a vintage pen with an ebonite feed in order to get the best out of the ink?

I would say, if you really like the ink, used it in a variety of pens and you would know. For each person it's different. It's the type of ink that chooses it's pen not the other way around. If memory serves me right, I like it best, in an oblique / flex Conway Stewart. 

15 minutes ago, Mercian said:

My thanks in advance for any answers that you can give to me.

 

Slàinte,
M.

Hope it helps.....

[jean]

Hello Yazeh,

 

I feel like your ink is aged and oxidized in the inkwell.  I have an old (~1950) blue-black Pelikan that has turned gray-brown in its inkwell similar to the one shown.

 

The following link shows a black ink, not brown https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6723

gutenberg IG 1

 

gutenberg IG 2

[yazeh]

5 hours ago, jean said:

Hello Yazeh,

 

I feel like your ink is aged and oxidized in the inkwell.  I have an old (~1950) blue-black Pelikan that has turned gray-brown in its inkwell similar to the one shown.

 

The following link shows a black ink, not brown https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6723

gutenberg IG 1

 

gutenberg IG 2

Yes. I know. That's why I first got the ink. However, mine wasn't like that.  Ironically when I emptied the pen in the sink, it was the beautiful brown/black but on TR 68 paper not so. 

I will do a test on super absorbent paper and see, if there is a drastic change over night. Essri turns black almost insistently...

[lapis]

The three of mine -- obtained one after the other --were brown-black in the first place, as soon as I opened them up for the first time. The last bottle I got was a free new bottle as a gift from the company itself which sells the stuff. That was about a year ago.

[yazeh]

8 hours ago, jean said:

Hello Yazeh,

 

I feel like your ink is aged and oxidized in the inkwell.  I have an old (~1950) blue-black Pelikan that has turned gray-brown in its inkwell similar to the one shown.

 

The following link shows a black ink, not brown https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6723

gutenberg IG 1

 

gutenberg IG 2

I'm sorry I didn't understand what you said in my first. 

 The first one was oxidized as you said. They sent me a replacement. The second bottle seemed better and had more body/ colour. But it is probable that it has oxidized.  

[yazeh]

23 minutes ago, lapis said:

The three of mine -- obtained one after the other --were brown-black in the first place, as soon as I opened them up for the first time. The last bottle I got was a free new bottle as a gift from the company itself which sells the stuff. That was about a year ago.

So you mean that your inks wee darker in colour than mine, is that correct?

[Mercian]

On 8/24/2021 at 7:02 PM, yazeh said:

Hope it helps.....

It does, yes.

 

Thank you very much 🙂

[lapis]

21 hours ago, yazeh said:

So you mean that your inks wee darker in colour than mine, is that correct?

No, mine are not darker than yours. Mine, too, are rather greyish -- sometimes even silvery, depending of course on the pen and paper -- but in any case always brownish. Something I do cherish....

[yazeh]

4 hours ago, lapis said:

No, mine are not darker than yours. Mine, too, are rather greyish -- sometimes even silvery, depending of course on the pen and paper -- but in any case always brownish. Something I do cherish....

Thanks lapis. You once said that the company stopped producing. Maybe the change happened then...

[lapis]

IIRC, they (Gutenberg GmbH*) didn't stop producing -- or they in fact did  but only for a short time (e.g. a few months) -- but were on the verge of collapsing, and/or were then in any case, for sure, taken over by or merged with the company Läufer. A speaker of Gutenberg GmbH told me that the ink in question (G10), which was originally labelled and sold as 10K32, retained its original formulation. Also, the new lab (or kitchen, if you like) is/was still in the same small town Burgdorf (again, about 12.8 miles East-northeast of downtown Hanover (in German, Hannover). I.e., IYAM, the ink's production has remained the same over the years, even if the recipe itself doesn't yield an ink which is as stable over the years as we'd like it to be.

*GmbH is the German equivalent of "Ltd."

 

Whew

[yazeh]

@ lapis... thanks so much for the detailed history. I was starting to think  that something is wrong with my ink

[yazeh]

I did a test a few days ago. Gutenberg doesn't in my experience darken:

The background is a thick absorbent paper (Peter Pauper Press) and the little square is Rhodia:

 

 

 

5 days later: