What’s your grail pen?

[Detman101]

Agreed. All of my pens are "Luxury Pens" based on the words used for the item descriptions.
Anything higher than the price of a normal pen is rightly denoted as "Luxury"...which my pens definitely are.
However, my ultimate desired acquisition is my "Grail Pen".
It's the pinnacle example of what I expect from the flex pen experience and I KNOW it will outshine all of my current flex pens.
Even my SODF nibbed Opus-88 Demo.
 

[MoriartyR]

Grail. The object of a long and difficult quest...

 

I’m not sure acquiring any of my pens required anything more arduous than a periodic internet search from the comfort of my couch, so I don’t have a grail pen.

 

Closest I have is probably the Montblanc Heritage 1912, but only because it was long out of production by the time I decided I really wanted that odd-looking thing that I used to see in pen store windows and ignore utterly. But I have two now, bought new in my preferred nib size, and I didn’t have to fight any dragons to get them. Wonderful pens, took a little searching to get, but certainly not a long and difficult quest. Would my life have been a failure if I hadn’t found one? Hardly. I’m sure I would have been very happy with something else instead. Viscontis are good and the green one in the shops right now is lovely.

 

Is there another pen I desperately want which is not available? I can’t think of one. There are so many great pens, and more are released every month. I don’t think I have encountered any pen so exceptional that there will not be another equally nice one coming along soon. The more pens I have, the more I realise that a great pen is just a great pen, and there are loads of them.

 

Is it a question of rarity? Are there any rare pens? Let’s face it, limited editions are everywhere, usually ‘limited’ to volumes that are likely as high as regular production models, and they are usually the same as a regular production pen but with a different colour or trim detail. Or that brown ‘Arco’ plastic that everyone seems to want these days. And with a number written on it. Is that a rare pen or an ordinary pen?

 

I’m afraid I don’t get the whole grail pen thing. My advice is to buy a few great pens, don’t kid yourself that they are anything magical, and don’t think that other pens will transform your life either. All good fountain pens are a delight to own and use.

 

I should note that I don’t value old pens. But the idea of a grail pen might make more sense if your interest is in old pens.

 

[collectorofmanythings]

On 5/6/2021 at 10:56 PM, langere said:

I used to have a lot of grail pens.  Then I got them and it was okay.  Just okay.  Now I don't worry about grail pens anymore, but instead just try to use the pens I have (over 300).  

 

The thing is that when I am finished with a load of ink with one pen, I am already thinking about the next pen I should use.  In Covid times, I am using pens less and the computer more, so I have about 30 pens waiting to be inked the first time.  That's good enough for me.

 

Erick

30 pens waiting to be inked! Well that’s so exciting, you have many things to look forward to! Thank you for your response!

[collectorofmanythings]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:15 PM, inkstainedruth said:

I think I may disagree with you slightly on terminology.  Because I have pens which cost WAY more than the Plum Demi 51 cost me.  And let's face it -- for most of the population anything that cost more than a BIC Crystal or a Zebra rollerball is going to be considered a "luxury".  Heck, when I got my first Parker Vector (replacing a couple of Parker Reflexes) I felt completely extravagant -- I'd just paid NINE DOLLARS for a fountain pen (the Reflexes had been $6.95 apiece at Staples).

But then, I don't have a lot of "luxury" pens.  The most expensive pen I own is the M405 Stresemann -- and I saved money by getting it from Rolf Thiel at Missing Pens (so I didn't have to pay the Chartpak markup and he didn't have to charge me VAT).  And I look at some of the really beautiful maki-e pens, and drool at the artistry -- and then remind myself what urushi is made of and and just walk away.

For me, half the fun is the hunt, and I have a lot of pens which I got great deals on at estate sales or in antiques stores.  Not to wave some baseball bat of a snooty pen in someone's face in a game of one-upmanship; if anyone wants to play that game with me, I've got the $22 US Forest Green 51 Aero -- two bucks at an estate sale and the other twenty on getting some work done on the EF nib so it wasn't scratchy.  And the 50¢ Parker 41 (another estate sale find). 

I did a spread sheet on prices of the pens I own (including factoring in stuff like repairs and postage and such).  And I own a whole lot more pens that cost under $80 -- INCLUDING that Plum Demi 51 -- than cost more than $150.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: Been using the M405 Stresemann today -- so far, it's been to do the morning pages journal entry, and to color over the bar code on some political spam flyer that also had "REFUSED -- Return to Sender" written on it before I swing past a mailbox... Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black is supposed to be somewhat water resistant, right? 

I agree that a grail pen doesn’t need to be ridiculously expensive, I like many pens more than other pens that are more expensive. And of course if you go down the rabbit hole of vintage pens you can find many pens that are cheap compared to  modern pens, and  it may write better than that modern pens that is twice the price. Thank you for your response! 

[collectorofmanythings]

On 5/7/2021 at 6:51 PM, MoriartyR said:

Grail. The object of a long and difficult quest...

 

I’m not sure acquiring any of my pens required anything more arduous than a periodic internet search from the comfort of my couch, so I don’t have a grail pen.

 

Closest I have is probably the Montblanc Heritage 1912, but only because it was long out of production by the time I decided I really wanted that odd-looking thing that I used to see in pen store windows and ignore utterly. But I have two now, bought new in my preferred nib size, and I didn’t have to fight any dragons to get them. Wonderful pens, took a little searching to get, but certainly not a long and difficult quest. Would my life have been a failure if I hadn’t found one? Hardly. I’m sure I would have been very happy with something else instead. Viscontis are good and the green one in the shops right now is lovely.

 

Is there another pen I desperately want which is not available? I can’t think of one. There are so many great pens, and more are released every month. I don’t think I have encountered any pen so exceptional that there will not be another equally nice one coming along soon. The more pens I have, the more I realise that a great pen is just a great pen, and there are loads of them.

 

Is it a question of rarity? Are there any rare pens? Let’s face it, limited editions are everywhere, usually ‘limited’ to volumes that are likely as high as regular production models, and they are usually the same as a regular production pen but with a different colour or trim detail. Or that brown ‘Arco’ plastic that everyone seems to want these days. And with a number written on it. Is that a rare pen or an ordinary pen?

 

I’m afraid I don’t get the whole grail pen thing. My advice is to buy a few great pens, don’t kid yourself that they are anything magical, and don’t think that other pens will transform your life either. All good fountain pens are a delight to own and use.

 

I should note that I don’t value old pens. But the idea of a grail pen might make more sense if your interest is in old pens.

 

That’s fair. I just want to say that the “Arco plastic” that you are referring to is so much more. I’m not sure if you are oversimplifying it to make a point or just because you realize it’s not the same. So if you are oversimplifying it for to make a point ignore the next part. The Omas Arco Celluloid was, well, celluloid, which it very different than plastic. It’s technical name is cellulose nitrate, which is completely different from something like that of acrylic acetate, which is used in Edison pens. Celluloid is very unstable and difficult to make, taking years to cure, and is very flammable. It is actually, for the most part, not being made anymore. But it can make so many different effects, like the arc affect in the Arco Celluloid. Omas has since gone out of business which makes this pen much more limited. So that is why people just love it. Anyways, thank you for your response!

[Detman101]

My "grain pen" was always a functional Flex pen that went from xxf to BBB.
I have that now.
And it didn't take buying a "Montblanc - Misterstickyerwallet" or some other exotic brand high-priced pen to do it.
 

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, collectorofmanythings said:

celluloid, which it very different than plastic.

 

Bad news. Celluloid is acknowledged as the first thermoplastic.

[MoriartyR]

3 hours ago, collectorofmanythings said:

That’s fair. I just want to say that the “Arco plastic” that you are referring to is so much more. I’m not sure if you are oversimplifying it to make a point or just because you realize it’s not the same. So if you are oversimplifying it for to make a point ignore the next part. The Omas Arco Celluloid was, well, celluloid, which it very different than plastic. It’s technical name is cellulose nitrate, which is completely different from something like that of acrylic acetate, which is used in Edison pens. Celluloid is very unstable and difficult to make, taking years to cure, and is very flammable. It is actually, for the most part, not being made anymore. But it can make so many different effects, like the arc affect in the Arco Celluloid. Omas has since gone out of business which makes this pen much more limited. So that is why people just love it. Anyways, thank you for your response!

Yeah. Celluloid is plastic, though. I don’t know why everyone is so allergic to the word plastic.

 

But you’re right, I was understating for effect. The whole Arco thing seems overblown to me and I think there are attractive celluloids available from living pen brands - perhaps more attractive, in my personal opinion.

 

I would hate to ever think I was chasing a “grail” pen and paying massively inflated prices for it simply because there is a limited supply of the plastic rather than because the pen is exceptional on its own merits - for its beauty and its performance. Can’t you get a Montegrappa Extra Otto in a stunning celluloid for much less than an Arco brown Armando Simoni Club? Isn’t the Montegrappa a far superior pen? And good quality original Omas examples are absurdly priced now compared to what they originally sold for - what fantastic alternatives do we have at those prices?

I suppose the point I am tangentially making is that it may be a disappointing journey to chase as a “grail” pen something which actually may be a fad and overpriced accordingly. Why didn’t everyone buy brown Arco pens when Omas was still trading and the prices were so much more reasonable? I suspect, as good as those pens certainly were, it is partially because celluloid is still just plastic, and brown is not everybody’s favourite colour. So what we see now is a fad.

 

[Nurmister]

Given Moriarty quite rightly points out that obtaining rare pens usually just requires patience and periodical searches, here's a bit of an unorthodox precondition for a pen to be a "grail": it must be custom-made.

 

As users get experience with different pens, and find what they like, they often form their own conception for what a perfect pen would be. While some pens may come close, there's always something to improve. In my case, my grail would likely be: a resin Montblanc 139L with:

1. A darkroom-red ink window.

2. A Conid-inspired filling system over the difficult-to-service telescopic piston.

3. Solid gold and platinum silver fittings to avoid the tarnishing of rolled gold and sterling silver fittings.

4. A 1970-style ebonite feed with a modern-style 149 nib with better plating that is currently offered (I have problems with how Montblanc masks their nibs during plating these days, it's imprecise). The nib would also have "14C 585 MONTBLANC" instead of the modern "Au750 MONTBLANC StoD" or the older, illogical "14C MONTBLANC 585".

 

Is this possible to make? Should be (except for the nib imprint change), although it would be expensive, and finding people to help you do it would be a challenge. But it would truly become something more than just a shiny collectible in the process: a pièce unique that's valuable particularly because you defined it.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Lambrou said the Sonnecken 111/222/333/444 were the best pens of the '50's = all time. Better than the MB and Pelikans then.

 

I want the 111 Extra; something similar to the 149 is my guess....if so, the 222 would do; in I find my 149 a big pen still.

Could be I'd enjoy the 333 better, if a standard size.

Got to look up the specs.

 

There was a Lizzard that was less expensive than the herringbone  on the used pen market....I couldn't afford it then either.

There are 6 or 8 different colored herringbone patterns; three were IMO prettiest.

 

There was a passed poster with some 6 of them on the com. Passed in she's not posted pictures of her collection in half a decade or more.

[alexwi]

Grail grail, no, but would love to find an Elysee Impression No. 1 for less than $200 or a Parker 75 Daimer for around $100. Those two I'd probably go for without thinking too much.

 

Alex

[peroride]

Grail pen? My wife has it 🤣 

 

I bought it for her: Aka Nakaya with the usual fixin's: bi-color nib, custom grind, kanji chars with a dragon on top

 

Honestly, I think grail tastes changes as one matures in the quest. There is so much good stuff now. 

 

For me, I think the real question is what happens AFTER said grail is in hand

 

It really is about choosing wisely ...

 

[Nurmister]

7 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Lambrou said the Sonnecken 111/222/333/444 were the best pens of the '50's = all time. Better than the MB and Pelikans then.

 

I want the 111 Extra; something similar to the 149 is my guess....if so, the 222 would do; in I find my 149 a big pen still.

Could be I'd enjoy the 333 better, if a standard size.

Got to look up the specs.

 

There was a Lizzard that was less expensive than the herringbone  on the used pen market....I couldn't afford it then either.

There are 6 or 8 different colored herringbone patterns; three were IMO prettiest.

 

There was a passed poster with some 6 of them on the com. Passed in she's not posted pictures of her collection in half a decade or more.

 

 

Interesting you mention Sonnecken. Out of the many pen brands of yesteryear, like Matador, I think that it would be great to have a revival if done properly. And: I now see where Lambrou got his clip design!

 

This reminds me of another vintage revival: "Radius pens" that I was thinking of making a post about, to gather any experience people may have with them.

 

I'm not familiar with them, but I like how the new owners have stayed very true to the spirit of the originals, unlike with the new Parker 51.

 

 

 

They're piston fillers and use Jowo nibs, which is reasonable given their size, and include pretty ski-sloped feeds.

 

The original:

 

 

Edit: It looks like there's already been a review!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Matador, when I first looked, I was too noobie to know I should have bought it or them. They became 'scarce', and I only looked seldom and was too busy with other German brands.

In Germany any colored pen outside of pelikan goes for at least 20% more than  black and gold. 5-7 years ago, I said, no more Black and Gold, and at least half that I've bought since are Black and Gold.

 

Hell, just added 3 more in my last win.

The Original Owner died # 1994, liked black and gold, having 3 black and gold W.Germany 800's. OM mine , OF, and OB in the other lot. I don't remember what other pens of that lot were, mostly black and gold were in the other plastic bag lot, but it did have two black and gold 800's. So he had three of them.

 

A Toledo had been a wish, then I unexpectedly won one; a Hunter in a live auction. Unexpectedly, in I spent much more than my max on a 7 pen in a plastic bag lot. In a live auction the fever climbs much faster than on the Bay.

 

Soennecken was always just out of my range.....like MB.

Osmia was sometimes in range. This is the day of the E60-80 140/400. Cheap now, not so then.Then Osmia was normally E20 more than Pelikan, E20 under Soennecken.

 

Four years ago, I finally had saved up the money for a Soennecken 111 Extra, E-750, in it had gone for E-500 back when I was still in shock for spending just E-100 for a pen.

The Lizard 222 had gone for E350 then.

Someone hunting for Idiots, wanted only $900 for a black herringbone 111. I don't care for that color. His Idiot hunt went on for months. And there were no others.

 

The money burnt a hole in my pocket finally, and I bought a flock of Pelikans. A Pelikan two holder desk stand, a 500 and matching color 400 tortoise. Two green marbled pens, a 381 and Celebry with gold nibs. and a few other pens.

In it took me forever to save up that money, so that was that for either of my Grail pens.

 

A second grail pen was an Osmia Supra. Picture is not mine, of course. It was just how baroque it was as Osmia a top rated pen, chased the Big Boys and had to have caught them.

Mid late '30's.

Back when I looked at the two Soenneckens; Lizard and herringbone, this one want for E-350 in the same bay auction.

A real signature pen, BBB at least if not BBBB

 

Some sort of button filler or Stossfuller.

 

 

[lfmarsan]

Hi All,

I do agree with most of your comments. However, for me, a grail pen is one I really love but I'm not able to get either because is too expensive to "justify" or too difficult to find. In my case, an OMAS 360 Wild. Maybe in some not too far future... who knows!

[KingsCountyWriter]

The Namiki Emperor Black Urushi. #50 nib.

I need to move at least 10 pens out of my collection before I acquire it.

[Linger]

I am still struggling with the concept. Primarily between the pen and the price. If money is no concern, I would have multiple options. But, alas, money is always a concern and what makes it even more double layered, is that one might have the money, but does not want to spend the money.

 

Prime examples are the maki-e emperors and yukari royales from Namiki. I can easily list half a dozen that I would really like to acquire. But I can’t get my head around the fact that I bought and sold cars and motorcycles at lower values...that i bought, heck that i commissioned, original artworks for lower values...

 

Granted, my slippery slide down the rabbit hole started with a Pelikan M800 and ended (for the time being) with a Nakaya Portable Bamboo Woods. So perhaps I might get used to the idea of holding an artwork in my hand rather than hanging it on the living room wall. An Emperor Owl would then be the one.

 

That being said, my grails are actually towards Hakase. Superb writers, great buying process, and the materials are eye-watering. I have an African ebony on order and a water buffalo horn one on the wishlist.

[langere]

Ah!  Good point!  All of the grail pens (at least, they were at the time) that I have acquired have been far less than the going price for them.  To give you an example, my M1 Classic Red Flame I acquired for about a half the then-market price.  If it had not been on sale, I would not have purchased it.

 

Erick

[willl]

My grail pen is a "true" grail pen -- I have yet to actually figure out which pen it is, though I have a vague idea what I'm looking for -- an Urushi Maki-e with a Fuji-san motif and an italic or cursive italic nib (heck, I'd settle for a stub!). Fuji motifs aren't hard to find at all, but I've not found "the one" (motif wise) so far. I've been tempted to settle for a Namiki "Fuji and Dragon" which the closest to "the one" that I've found at this point but unfortunately it isn't available with italic nibs and it still doesn't quite hit the spot (motif-wise) even if it did have the nib option.

[Bo Bo Olson]

My Pelikan 500, would have been a grail pen.....something to save for, to hunt for............had I known about it...

..But I never thought of it, in it was too expensive to think about........from a guy who was once in the Pen of the Week in the Mail Club.....ie dirt cheap pens.

I had a lucky week, getting the 500 for a middle class price of E 150. back in the day where a 400 was E-100.

 

My Geha 725 was a grail pen.........way too expensive for me at E-100, then when the English were away in South Africa for the World Cup. Sent all their money on the trip or rest having bet their money on England to win, had no money.

I found one in England for E-50.

In my comfort zone.

The next week, two in Germany sold for E-25.

The classy sleek Geha 725 cost originally DM360 or $90, when my sterling silver P-75 cost $22, in silver money. Designed to stomp MB into a mudpuddle and did.

 

It is a thin medium-long pen with rolled gold trim; one of the most pretty nibs, 14 K/385 of course, semi-flex...Fantastic balance. (As 20 pen noobie, checked for balance, it came in second. beating the P-75 and the 400NN.(took a couple of years of dithering  for the 400NN to beat the 400.))

And a couple of curved lines on the clip really make it classy.

Unfortunately it only comes in Black and Gold or I'd have a second.

Nib picture with permission of Penboard.de

A couple of lines makes the clip so classy.

 

Remember as soon as you get your grail pen, you have a new grail pen to find.....the grail is always out of reach.

It is not get your grail pen and stop buying pens.....well for maybe a week or three. Then comes the next .