Lamy 2000 2021 edition?

[sirgilbert357]

2 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Good for you, and I think it's a wise approach. Nevertheless, there are those who tries to collect every release of Pelikan M2xx or M6xx, or Lamy Safari or Studio, just to satisfy completist urges and/or put their ‘fandom’ on proud display (and, good for them too, if they truly enjoy posting ‘family portraits’ for others to obligingly go ga-ga over); and they are the ones I think most ‘deserve’ to drive manufacturers' pricing of the upcoming limited editions, not those who would like to have the pens but place more importance on being selective and shopping smart. Those who want to steer the pricing trends downward, or at least keep them flat, need to be negotiating and/or colluding with the keener, more cashed-up fans in the market, instead of appealing to the manufacturers to be ‘reasonable’; it's reasonable to release just the right numbers of pens to satisfy the hardcore fans while also leaving enough available for newcomers to the brands to buy in, so as to foster and grow the fan bases.

 

Now, why don't we just sit back and see whether Lamy's decisions in colours, pricing, and number of units released for the 55th anniversary edition pays off by quickly selling out most of them without retailers offering significant discounts as incentive and/or in dragged out clearance sales, and then conclude whether Lamy's thinking was sound? I remember there was a fair amount of teeth-gnashing online when the details — inclusive of pricing, volume, and choice of nib(s) — of the blue Bauhaus limited edition were announced; yet the market response dominated by hobbyists seemed to more than vindicate Lamy's decisions. If this new limited edition, with 3,300 units available to be sold, manage to sell more than 2,000-odd units at close to MSRP (less whatever discounts Pelikan's regional distributors normally allow retailers to offer on new releases), then we know there were no net loss of fans or bridges burnt with the brand's target market by the release of the blue Bauhaus limited edition.

 

Did you mean "Lamy" there?

 

Personally, I think they will all sell out, and quickly enough to classify this as a "success". I don't know at what price, but I would expect there to be very few discounts if they are moving rapidly. My expectation is that it will sell out at very close to MSRP. And we might even see some on eBay later for significantly higher prices...surprise, surprise.

[A Smug Dill]

3 minutes ago, sirgilbert357 said:

Did you mean "Lamy" there?

 

Yes, I did. Thanks for catching that promptly and pointing it out! I've corrected my post now.

 

4 minutes ago, sirgilbert357 said:

Personally, I think they will all sell out, and quickly enough to classify this as a "success".

 

In which case, I stand ready to congratulate Lamy even though it fails to gain more of my consumer spending with this limited edition, and look forward to seeing what it does for the next new release.  It can be fun to just be an observer to (and subsequently discuss with others) what's happening in the hobby and the market, and not feel I am either part of the action, or unduly excluded or discriminated against by unfavourable terms of retail offer, at every turn just because I like Lamy well enough as a brand.

[sirgilbert357]

12 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Yes, I did. Thanks for catching that promptly and pointing it out! I've corrected my post now.

 

 

In which case, I stand ready to congratulate Lamy even though it fails to gain more of my consumer spending with this limited edition, and look forward to seeing what it does for the next new release.  It can be fun to just be an observer to (and subsequently discuss with others) what's happening in the hobby and the market, and not feel I am either part of the action, or unduly excluded or discriminated against by unfavourable terms of retail offer, at every turn just because I like Lamy well enough as a brand.

 

I also enjoy watching what they do, whether I can justify buying their limited editions or not. I am pleased Lamy are putting out more variations of the L2k. It seems far overdue, in my mind, considering the popularity of the model over the decades.

 

I really hope they do more standard color L2k's eventually. And I'd love to see an aluminum L2k (like the stainless steel L2k, but in aluminum). I've pitched the idea to Brian Goulet and suggested he could even petition them for a Goulet exclusive model as he has done with other brands in the past. I mentioned they could do color models as they currently do with the Al-Stars. My hope is he takes it seriously and opens a discussion with Lamy -- they are certainly more likely to listen to him than me. One can dream...

 

I would buy a bronze/copper colored (think 2015 L.E. Al-Star colored) aluminum L2k in a heartbeat...

[Uncial]

Of course it will sell out. We live in a weird world these days in which people make a lot of fast money by flipping. I have no doubt some will buy more than one for this very purpose. It's not as if we all haven't seen it with pens and ink before.

 

Pretty much anything that is deemed collectible or desirable gets flipped these days : you can buy a Rolex for quite literally double the price so you don't have to wait eight months and some idiots born yesterday actually pay up! The same happens with Seiko, Casio and (I know it's hard to believe) Sekonda. It happens with plain old teabags in tins, chocolates that print a slightly different box for an event, luggage, wallets, t-shirts, Playstations, trainers...you name it there are people out there buying up product by the bucket load and flipping it. Lamy seem to have cut to the chase to be both seller and flipper all at once, and we might whinge at the price (I know I did already), but as long as there are flippers and the stupid, at some point or another it wont just be Lamy who looks and thinks they might bevable to charge more....a lot more.

[Calabria]

…….waiting for the unboxing photos after all this theorizing ….

[langere]

We look forward to the photos!

 

Erick

[Intensity]

My ultimate 2000 would be in a very dark maroon or a very dark teal, but I do like this brown version.  However I know I will never own these versions, even if the yare released, because that pricing is pretty crazy.  It's not like some precious materials are used for the limited editions to increase the price 3-fold.  Considering that the original Lamy 2000 in black makrolon can be had for just over $125ish, at least in USA, regularly enough, the price of the LE version is practically 4.5-fold higher.  It's just insulting to see such a high price tag on the brown Makrolon version.  

 

It's not even like Limited Edition Sailor pens that can be a couple of times more expensive than the base versions--those are usually custom-made for specific store collaborations, and so the stores dictate the pricing.  This Lamy 2000 is made by and sold directly by Lamy.  All they had to do was change the color of the plastic and kept everything else the same.

 

The additional notebook and book don't actually add much to the cost. I think they were added as a justification for the astronomical price for the particular pen, perhaps to have fewer people scratch their heads.  If anything, I'd rather not buy a genuine leather cover notebook, for ethical concerns.

[A Smug Dill]

15 hours ago, Intensity said:

It's just insulting to see such a high price tag on the brown Makrolon version.

 

Sigh. Why? If enough other customers, with or without already being devoted Lamy 2000 fans, are snapping up >90% of the units of a production run within weeks of first retail release, then it would only be testament that Lamy (has taken the time to study, and) understands  ‘the customer’ base; so how can it be insulting to either the collective as a whole, or to you as an individual?

 

It's not as if Lamy has you (or me!) personally pegged as being willing to part with 450% of the price of the basic Makrolon version to get the brown one even if it looks appealing as a product; but that the company has enough faith that there are enough ‘bigger’ fans out there in the market to make your (and my) reservations irrelevant to the commercial outcome of the exercise.

 

Now, I am making one single major assumption there: that Lamy does not treat you, out of all of its (past and/or prospective) customers, as necessary to specifically please with its product offering and pricing, would not be treated by you as a personal insult when it's just business; if you choose (wisely) not to buy something you like, someone else will, and that's that. So please do tell me if my assumption is incorrect, and I'll eat crow.

[maclink]

4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Sigh. Why? If enough other customers, with or without already being devoted Lamy 2000 fans, are snapping up >90% of the units of a production run within weeks of first retail release, then it would only be testament that Lamy (has taken the time to study, and) understands  ‘the customer’ base; so how can it be insulting to either the collective as a whole, or to you as an individual?

 

Yes.  You either pay for the inherent value, which we rarely do with FP's, or we are paying based on a supply-demand measure.  We see it with property where the very same property will have a very different price based on the projected demand for it.  We see it with art, cars etc.  Pens are by no means an exception.  The choice is very simple, i.e., you either find the product worth the asking price, or you do not, and get on with either purchasing or leaving it alone.  That's all that you can do as a single consumer.  There's no insult intended on the part of the seller, nor should it be seen as such.  

 

Lamy has made a calculation based on supply-demand.  If all the units sell, then their calculations were correct.  I think that if they don't sell, it's more because of the colour than the cost.

 

I've had no buyers remorse having gone for it and my decision to purchase this time around is based on my remorse for not having bought the Blue Bauhaus version having baulked at the price!!  OTOH, I've had buyer's remorse for pens that are far more popular and where there is no huge controversy about pricing, and there do remain pens that are very popular and for which I'm not willing to purchase since I'm not willing to pay the asking price which is clearly based on demand and the willingness for consumers to pay the asking price.  The only difference in those other situations and the L2K SE's, is that the difference in price between the regular and special edition is so different.  It makes the strategy of pricing based on supply-demand more obvious and some aren't taking kindly to this.

 

I have a friend that has a comic book in a plastic bag to help its preservation.  It's worth thousands because of the demand for it in the comic book collector market.  Supply-demand....

 

Finally, I had said that I would upload unboxing images, but it does take effort to do that and I'm not feeling a sucker for punishment.  I'll make the effort only for enthusiastic eyes and I've not read much enthusiasm.

 

BTW, mine came with an EF and not a F nib.

[A Smug Dill]

9 minutes ago, maclink said:

BTW, mine came with an EF and not a F nib.

 

Oh, that could've brought me one step closer… although I wasn't impressed by the EF nib on my Lamy 2000 blue Bauhaus, as it's proven to put down the broadest lines among all my Lamy (steel or gold) EF nibs.

 

 

[maclink]

Just now, A Smug Dill said:

 

Oh, that could've brought me one step closer… although I wasn't impressed by the EF nib on my Lamy 2000 blue Bauhaus, as it's proven to put down the broadest lines among all my Lamy (steel or gold) EF nibs.

Actually, the EF on mine is genuine.  Immediately, as I wrote, I realised it was an EF and with the sort of wetness that allows for a true EF line.... perhaps not quite the Sailor/Platinum EF.  🙂  

[bayindirh]

2 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

it's proven to put down the broadest lines among all my Lamy (steel or gold) EF nibs.

 

People misunderstand 2000 a lot. Its nib selection consists from EF broad to BB broad. The nib designation is not about line thickness, but about broadness.  

 

That's being said, I immensely enjoy my 2000 medium (broad).  

[Calabria]

This is the first real life photo I could find. It’s Nibsmith’s second attempt, the first was indistinguishable from the regular black version https://www.instagram.com/p/CRXjwAjMYbf/?utm_medium=copy_link

[comixfan]

Lamy is killing me with these limited editions.  Kudos to those who can afford to snag one of these and chooses to actually use it every day rather than let it languish in a display case.  These pens were designed to be daily drivers, not collectibles, and I feel like Lamy is missing the mark by steering away from the original Bauhaus principles of the pen.

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, Calabria said:

This is the first real life photo I could find.

 

Then perhaps you have the problem of not seeing what is right there. @nanders9 posted a link to his photos of his new pen in this very thread, three pages of posts ago; and you posted in this thread five posts after his (and several times since then).

[sirgilbert357]

33 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Then perhaps you have the problem of not seeing what is right there. @nanders9 posted a link to his photos of his new pen in this very thread, three pages of posts ago; and you posted in this thread five posts after his (and several times since then).

 

Ouch man. You having a bad day or something?

[Wayne H]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:56 PM, peroride said:

Yay! 👋 look forward to your impressions.  I kept writing and looking at my old L2K with Lamy Sky Blue ink remarking its competency while eyeing that price tag for the 55th Anniversary Edition. In the end, I could not squeeze out enough irrationality to even cart the item. I saved what no-more-pens insanity I had left for a simple black Pelikan M200 whose classic iconic German design will hopefully ease the slight tinge of Lamy regret.

I am really enjoying it! It is a nice and smooth writer and will be using it a lot more this coming week as I start my new job. I have attached a few pics (not professionally taken-LOL). 

[arcfide]

On 7/14/2021 at 2:35 PM, Intensity said:

My ultimate 2000 would be in a very dark maroon or a very dark teal, but I do like this brown version.  However I know I will never own these versions, even if the yare released, because that pricing is pretty crazy.  It's not like some precious materials are used for the limited editions to increase the price 3-fold.  Considering that the original Lamy 2000 in black makrolon can be had for just over $125ish, at least in USA, regularly enough, the price of the LE version is practically 4.5-fold higher.  It's just insulting to see such a high price tag on the brown Makrolon version.  

 

It's not even like Limited Edition Sailor pens that can be a couple of times more expensive than the base versions--those are usually custom-made for specific store collaborations, and so the stores dictate the pricing.  This Lamy 2000 is made by and sold directly by Lamy.  All they had to do was change the color of the plastic and kept everything else the same.

 

The additional notebook and book don't actually add much to the cost. I think they were added as a justification for the astronomical price for the particular pen, perhaps to have fewer people scratch their heads.  If anything, I'd rather not buy a genuine leather cover notebook, for ethical concerns.

 

I think this post glosses over a few things. 

 

Firstly, classic L2K's may be available for great prices but the R&D on that pen has long since been covered, and the pen has been around for many years. Moreover, a lot of people seem to count "grey market" pricing in their assessments, but I personally find this a little inaccurate in terms of assessing real value because grey market items tend to hide and offset real costs by circumventing normal market forces through governmental loopholes (more or less), so I don't consider them accurate representations of real value, though I have no idea how different the grey market vs. normal retail market is for L2K's right now. Thus, something like "can be had" I would prefer to retarget to what are the prevailing dominant retail rates? 

 

Secondly, Makrolon is not "plastic" in the same sense that the Safari ABS or Sailor PMMA resin pens are. The Makrolon material is known industrially (based on my limited research) as being harder to work with as far as color goes. To add to that, the way that the L2K is finished means that many colors are impossible to do right with the L2K because of the way that the brushed finish is made and linked between the metal and makrolon components. This is one of the reasons that there were so few L2K's for so long. Put simply, the R&D costs to release a new Makrolon L2K color is higher than on the Lamy Safari's and Aion or other limited edition colors. I couldn't say how much higher, but it is higher. 

 

Thirdly, Lamy is very cautious about undermining their core product and colors, making a LE reasonable only if they can recoup the costs and also not create undue competition with their other models. 

 

Fourthly, color matching the clip and the makrolon would not have been trivial, because you would have had to match the color of the clip with the post finishing stage of the makrolon, which is more work than other color matching processes that are more predictable. Again, is it a big cost? Not necessarily, but little inconveniences like that have a way of potentially adding up to significantly more total man hours and labor costs as well as other intangible R&D costs. Lamy strikes me as the kind of company that is very careful about such costs. 

 

Fifth, the notebook may seem like an unnecessary addition, but the moment that they decided to put it in, unless they sourced it completely off the shelf (unlikely), then it probably took quite a bit of time designing that as well. A recent interview on FPLove with Rachel from Itoya discussed how it took years to put together a single new notebook edition to their Oasis lineup, which isn't that different than their standard lineup. 

 

In other industrial manufacturer processes that I've seen/watched unfold which were mechanically much simpler and easier to product and based on existing products already, some of these products took years of development and a lot of back and forth, necessitating a price increase that many people found surprising. But considering limited production intent, I think it's worth taking into consideration that producing a new LE for an L2K is not at all surprising that it would be more baseline R&D costs to put together a new model than with their other designs (which they often offer at exactly the same price). 

 

Now, all that being said, I can't possibly imagine that they haven't looked around at their market, social media, and the like and noted what Limited Edition pens are going for. But if you look at many of Lamy's premium products like the Stainless and Dialog 3 that go for $300 or so, and the L2K that is nominally $200 at many retailers, a $500 - 600 price tag in the US for the LE puts it *under* many of the competitors' flagship limited editions (like Sailor, who are wizards at color mixups and specialize in their injection molding processes), not insanely higher (IMO), and well placed with regards to "high end" limited editions, which is where I think Lamy is going. 

 

I really think people forget about all of the intangible costs that are involved in limited edition products above and beyond the raw material costs and production labor costs. 

 

I am completely uninterested in the pen itself, but I am interested in Lamy's approach to LE pens. IMO, I just don't feel like this is Lamy trying to take advantage of anyone, scalping, or even being insanely greedy. It just looks like a relatively competitive, fair market offering on their part that, if anything, is conservative by the pen world's standards these days. 

[N1003U]

6 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

I think this post glosses over a few things. 

 

Firstly, classic L2K's may be available for great prices but the R&D on that pen has long since been covered, and the pen has been around for many years. Moreover, a lot of people seem to count "grey market" pricing in their assessments, but I personally find this a little inaccurate in terms of assessing real value because grey market items tend to hide and offset real costs by circumventing normal market forces through governmental loopholes (more or less), so I don't consider them accurate representations of real value, though I have no idea how different the grey market vs. normal retail market is for L2K's right now. Thus, something like "can be had" I would prefer to retarget to what are the prevailing dominant retail rates? 

 

Secondly, Makrolon is not "plastic" in the same sense that the Safari ABS or Sailor PMMA resin pens are. The Makrolon material is known industrially (based on my limited research) as being harder to work with as far as color goes. To add to that, the way that the L2K is finished means that many colors are impossible to do right with the L2K because of the way that the brushed finish is made and linked between the metal and makrolon components. This is one of the reasons that there were so few L2K's for so long. Put simply, the R&D costs to release a new Makrolon L2K color is higher than on the Lamy Safari's and Aion or other limited edition colors. I couldn't say how much higher, but it is higher. 

 

Thirdly, Lamy is very cautious about undermining their core product and colors, making a LE reasonable only if they can recoup the costs and also not create undue competition with their other models. 

 

Fourthly, color matching the clip and the makrolon would not have been trivial, because you would have had to match the color of the clip with the post finishing stage of the makrolon, which is more work than other color matching processes that are more predictable. Again, is it a big cost? Not necessarily, but little inconveniences like that have a way of potentially adding up to significantly more total man hours and labor costs as well as other intangible R&D costs. Lamy strikes me as the kind of company that is very careful about such costs. 

 

Fifth, the notebook may seem like an unnecessary addition, but the moment that they decided to put it in, unless they sourced it completely off the shelf (unlikely), then it probably took quite a bit of time designing that as well. A recent interview on FPLove with Rachel from Itoya discussed how it took years to put together a single new notebook edition to their Oasis lineup, which isn't that different than their standard lineup. 

 

In other industrial manufacturer processes that I've seen/watched unfold which were mechanically much simpler and easier to product and based on existing products already, some of these products took years of development and a lot of back and forth, necessitating a price increase that many people found surprising. But considering limited production intent, I think it's worth taking into consideration that producing a new LE for an L2K is not at all surprising that it would be more baseline R&D costs to put together a new model than with their other designs (which they often offer at exactly the same price). 

 

Now, all that being said, I can't possibly imagine that they haven't looked around at their market, social media, and the like and noted what Limited Edition pens are going for. But if you look at many of Lamy's premium products like the Stainless and Dialog 3 that go for $300 or so, and the L2K that is nominally $200 at many retailers, a $500 - 600 price tag in the US for the LE puts it *under* many of the competitors' flagship limited editions (like Sailor, who are wizards at color mixups and specialize in their injection molding processes), not insanely higher (IMO), and well placed with regards to "high end" limited editions, which is where I think Lamy is going. 

 

I really think people forget about all of the intangible costs that are involved in limited edition products above and beyond the raw material costs and production labor costs. 

 

I am completely uninterested in the pen itself, but I am interested in Lamy's approach to LE pens. IMO, I just don't feel like this is Lamy trying to take advantage of anyone, scalping, or even being insanely greedy. It just looks like a relatively competitive, fair market offering on their part that, if anything, is conservative by the pen world's standards these days. 

Concur, and well stated.

 

Even if I didn’t agree, the argument is well organized and logically presented, which would enable me to address disagreements in similar fashion.

 

thanks for post.

[Intensity]

Whichever way you slice it, even looking at the "official" authorized retailers, the price of the special edition color pen is almost exactly 3x higher:

https://www.gouletpens.com/collections/lamy-2000-fountain-pens

 

Normal black Makrolon 2000 : $199 + tax

SE Brown Makrolon 2000: $579 + tax

 

Here's a major British vendor, where the ratio is even higher:

https://www.cultpens.com/c/q/brands/lamy/lamy-2000

Normal black Makrolon 2000 : £155.00 inc. VAT

SE Brown Makrolon 2000: £490.00 inc. VAT

 

Here's Appelboom's price for the standard Makrolon 2000:

https://appelboom.com/lamy-germany/2000/

Normal black Makrolon 2000 : €169.42

 

If you look at grey market prices, then you can also get the LE Brown version for proportionately less, but it's still the same 3-4 times more expensive than the black version.

 

And precisely: all the R&D is done.  They just changed the color of the PVD and the makrolon, added a hardcover book, and a notebook.   It's not like they used some more precious materials.  You're welcome to pay the extra $400 or so for those extra items, effectively.  Objectively-speaking, only hardcore collectors or people for whom a few hundred dollars is no big deal will spend that much on the LE pen.  Sadly that's the intent on Lamy's part.  You're paying for the exclusivity and nothing else, and people will always pay extra for that.   They COULD have made these pens more widely available and at lower price point to support the loyal 2000 fan base.  They would probably make more profit on selling more of these LE pens at a lower price point.  But they chose to irritate most Lamy 2000 fans instead.

 

Random example: another very popular, one could even say iconic, German writing utensils brand, Rotring, recently released special color editions of their 600 series mechanical pencil.  Same price point.  It's just different paint color.