Lamy 2000 2021 edition?

[sirgilbert357]

6 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

No, but since I chose not to buy a 2021 limited edition brown Lamy 2000, I will have neither a user experience nor a buying experience that can be ruined. It sounded to me like you're put off by the price and the brown clip, and will therefore refrain from buying one as well of you own volition, and therefore you also won't have ‘the experience’ of being either a pen user or buyer to be ruined. What's left? Reading someone else's review, which in all likelihood arises from their making a difference choice, and electing to buy and use one of those pens.

 

 

Again, I ask: which experience(s) specifically, then? You don't lust after it on account of the brown clip, and you don't have a fear-of-missing-out since you're choosing not to buy one of the 3,300 units at the asking price. Imagining that/how it could be different if you called the shots on the design of the limited edition pen and set its price, so that you would then own and enjoy one in that alternate reality, does not constitute an ‘experience’.

 

The VISUAL experience. He just doesn't like the look of the brown clip. Which is an "experience" one can have through seeing pictures...

[sirgilbert357]

6 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

No, but since I chose not to buy a 2021 limited edition brown Lamy 2000, I will have neither a user experience nor a buying experience that can be ruined. It sounded to me like you're put off by the price and the brown clip, and will therefore refrain from buying one as well of you own volition, and therefore you also won't have ‘the experience’ of being either a pen user or buyer to be ruined. What's left? Reading someone else's review, which in all likelihood arises from their making a difference choice, and electing to buy and use one of those pens.

 

 

Again, I ask: which experience(s) specifically, then? You don't lust after it on account of the brown clip, and you don't have a fear-of-missing-out since you're choosing not to buy one of the 3,300 units at the asking price. Imagining that/how it could be different if you called the shots on the design of the limited edition pen and set its price, so that you would then own and enjoy one in that alternate reality, does not constitute an ‘experience’.

 

Careful there...some religions claim everything you directly experience is just an illusion. So, some would take issue with your definition. A bit off the path of this thread, but just saying...LOL. 😉

[maclink]

2 hours ago, a m a r g o said:

 

It would be extremely interesting to attest how do you navigate through life!

 

Could you describe to us how did you engaged and participated in the last sunset you experienced? It wasn't enough just to pay attention and live through the event? You would need to have a tiny responsibility in the Earth's rotation to 'properly' experience the event?

 

I'm sorry, I was extremely optimistic early on, I'll correct myself here: It really wouldn't be interesting to attest how do you navigate through life.

 

Au revoir!

I think I understand your use of the word ‘experience’ in this context, although ‘impression’ would have likely caused less backing and forthing, in that, on seeing photos of the pen you have impressions of what to expect. Experience OTOH, implies something more direct, though this is only an implication since a dream is an experience. 😀 Someone could lend you the pen, allowing you to have a more direct experience with what it looks like with good lighting etc., all without having to spend any money. We both know that pens often look quite different to what we expect. 

 

For me, I surrendered to fate.  While doing my first round of browsing for pricing and availability, the sites I found offering the pen were all sold out pre-orders. None are on sale in the UK likely because of Brexit and shipment deliveries to sellers. But then, none at Appelboom.  I thought that even if I did want one I wouldn’t get one. 

 

Out of curiosity, a couple days back, I did a quick search and found one available from a seller in Canada.  Although I was surprised at the availability, I didn’t yield to temptation, despite my initial reluctance because of the price. But then I found a seller in Greece!  

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, maclink said:

 I thought that even if I did want one I wouldn’t get one. 

 

EndlessPens was (and, although I can't be bothered checking right now, possibly still is) offering the set, which it listed as being in stock, for US$422 last week. I wasn't tempted, though, when I paid far less for the blue Bauhaus set; and it had an EF nib to boot! I don't think I'd have any use at all for a Fine-nibbed Lamy 2000.

 

It was much harder for me to let the Aurora 88 Huangshan limited edition (fitted with an EF nib, in which I have every confidence would be better than the Lamy 2000's) go when the asking price wasn't much more than that. But I did.

[Wayne H]

I ordered one from Endless Pen. Expected to arrive this weekend.

[marlinspike]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:41 AM, sirgilbert357 said:

So if all that is true, why wouldn't I sell a L.E. pen for 4-5x the price??

 

And do you mean "should" as in "this is MY opinion", or are you objecting on some moral grounds...like "it's immoral that they are asking so much for that"??

 

I mean should in that this is all the premium the consumer should be willing to pay for it, given long term resale value. Pen collecting (as opposed to pen using) is about buying and selling after all, and the primary market for limiteds is collectors.

[A Smug Dill]

6 minutes ago, marlinspike said:

Pen collecting (as opposed to pen using) is about buying and selling after all, and the primary market for limiteds is collectors.

 

I disagree. The primary market for limited editions is people who like to own stuff; while most of them would like to use the pens as writing instruments, some of them just enjoy having (clear title of) beautiful things and rare things.

[Calabria]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:35 AM, Uncial said:

Lately, a rising number of threads seem to veer into a twilight zone of the increasingly surreal.

Hahahaha 🤣true true 

[sirgilbert357]

18 hours ago, marlinspike said:

I mean should in that this is all the premium the consumer should be willing to pay for it, given long term resale value. Pen collecting (as opposed to pen using) is about buying and selling after all, and the primary market for limiteds is collectors.

 

How can you decide what someone else "should" pay for something though? I don't know what resale value has to do with the MSRP or the "street price" either. Have you bought a car lately? Terrible investments.

 

I think Lamy is a little presumptuous setting the price so high, but it's only because I personally don't find the pen to be subjectively worth that much. But I can't say it "should" be less...no doubt they will sell out, proving they were "worth" the price.

[marlinspike]

12 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

 

How can you decide what someone else "should" pay for something though? I don't know what resale value has to do with the MSRP or the "street price" either. Have you bought a car lately? Terrible investments.

 

I think Lamy is a little presumptuous setting the price so high, but it's only because I personally don't find the pen to be subjectively worth that much. But I can't say it "should" be less...no doubt they will sell out, proving they were "worth" the price.

Cars are not terrible investments. The wrong cars are I suppose (though if you bought your car prior to covid you can at least sell it now for break even money). How I decide it is based on 20 years of watching values.

[sirgilbert357]

1 hour ago, marlinspike said:

Cars are not terrible investments. The wrong cars are I suppose (though if you bought your car prior to covid you can at least sell it now for break even money). How I decide it is based on 20 years of watching values.

 

LMAO.

 

OK. You do you then. The number of cars that go up in value over time is drastically less than the number that go down, therefore making "cars" (overall) bad "investments".

[peroride]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:56 AM, Wayne H said:

I ordered one from Endless Pen. Expected to arrive this weekend.

Yay! 👋 look forward to your impressions.  I kept writing and looking at my old L2K with Lamy Sky Blue ink remarking its competency while eyeing that price tag for the 55th Anniversary Edition. In the end, I could not squeeze out enough irrationality to even cart the item. I saved what no-more-pens insanity I had left for a simple black Pelikan M200 whose classic iconic German design will hopefully ease the slight tinge of Lamy regret.

[maclink]

You can now pre-order on CultPens for £490.  It does only come with a F nib which answers my previous query.

[a m a r g o]

On 7/8/2021 at 6:13 PM, maclink said:

I think I understand your use of the word ‘experience’ in this context, although ‘impression’ would have likely caused less backing and forthing, in that, on seeing photos of the pen you have impressions of what to expect. Experience OTOH, implies something more direct, though this is only an implication since a dream is an experience. 😀 Someone could lend you the pen, allowing you to have a more direct experience with what it looks like with good lighting etc., all without having to spend any money. We both know that pens often look quite different to what we expect. 

 

For me, I surrendered to fate.  While doing my first round of browsing for pricing and availability, the sites I found offering the pen were all sold out pre-orders. None are on sale in the UK likely because of Brexit and shipment deliveries to sellers. But then, none at Appelboom.  I thought that even if I did want one I wouldn’t get one. 

 

Out of curiosity, a couple days back, I did a quick search and found one available from a seller in Canada.  Although I was surprised at the availability, I didn’t yield to temptation, despite my initial reluctance because of the price. But then I found a seller in Greece!  

 

In my case it's not an impression, I'm not emitting a judgement about the pen based on the first photos I saw...

 

We've craved information about the pen, wrote in a public forum over which characteristics it should have and which ones we wish it had, compare the other two similar variants Lamy produced of the makrolon versions (red / blue), or talked about the pertinence of such a price increase (4x) for what is basically the exact same pen but in a different makrolon color. Weighting on all of the previous aspects, speculating if you would end up buying or not the anniversary edition or just deciding if the edition was worthy of the Lamy 2000 name. You're rationally and emotionally involved in the process, hence it's an experience.

 

I wasn't invited to a restaurant and asked to taste a new wine so they could gather customers' impressions about it...

 

There wasn't backing and forthing over the 'correct' use of the term 'experience', it was about someone being triggered over a comment he or she saw in the internet and did not liked. Why that sentence produced such response?

 

'Dunno'...

 

...

 

It certainly has a hefty price tag, but if this edition checks all your expectations and you think it is the right one for you, there'll be no buyers remorse!

 

I'm a little bit more orthodox, or bitter as we should really name boring people as myself, and that brown clip is a huge red flag for me...

[A Smug Dill]

If (generically!) you're a fan of the Lamy 2000 model, and not just limited to being that of the black Makrolon for whichever attributes (including pricing, which is neither universal nor static), then you're a fan who may consider buying the next new release; and, at that, there are different degrees of ‘fandom’, so it's perfectly conceivable and — in my opinion — reasonable in a hobbyist/niche marketplace to be sidelined, trumped or crowded out by ‘bigger’ fans who make high official prices acceptable or even astute on the part of the manufacturer.

 

For EndlessPens's low asking price for the Lamy 2000 55th anniversary limited edition “exclusive collector's” set, I declined the offer and just bought instead four more Pelikan M2xx pens, a bunch of Pelikan Twist pens, and a whole lot of ink, with half of the loot intended to give to friends and their kids. If anyone tells me I'm just not enough of a Lamy 2000 fan or devotee of the brand in general, I'd be more than happy to ‘own’ the put-down(?), and consider my opinion of what the new limited edition release should sport and/or be priced at to be far less relevant in every way to that of those fans who're prepared to cough up and fight each other over the limited numbers. I'm happy to write myself off as a would-be participant in that contest, in which participation is wholly voluntary. The more we can get everyone to show their true colours and make ‘hard’ choices to forgo “what could be, if only”, the better it is!

[sirgilbert357]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

If (generically!) you're a fan of the Lamy 2000 model, and not just limited to being that of the black Makrolon for whichever attributes (including pricing, which is neither universal nor static), then you're a fan who may consider buying the next new release; and, at that, there are different degrees of ‘fandom’, so it's perfectly conceivable and — in my opinion — reasonable in a hobbyist/niche marketplace to be sidelined, trumped or crowded out by ‘bigger’ fans who make high official prices acceptable or even astute on the part of the manufacturer.

 

For EndlessPens's low asking price for the Lamy 2000 55th anniversary limited edition “exclusive collector's” set, I declined the offer and just bought instead four more Pelikan M2xx pens, a bunch of Pelikan Twist pens, and a whole lot of ink, with half of the loot intended to give to friends and their kids. If anyone tells me I'm just not enough of a Lamy 2000 fan or devotee of the brand in general, I'd be more than happy to ‘own’ the put-down(?), and consider my opinion of what the new limited edition release should sport and/or be priced at to be far less relevant in every way to that of those fans who're prepared to cough up and fight each other over the limited numbers. I'm happy to write myself off as a would-be participant in that contest, in which participation is wholly voluntary. The more we can get everyone to show their true colours and make ‘hard’ choices to forgo “what could be, if only”, the better it is!

 

I am a huge fan of Pelikan M800's, but that doesn't mean I buy every M800 they release. I evaluate each pen based on its own individual merits, even the limited editions.

[maclink]

2 minutes ago, sirgilbert357 said:

 

I am a huge fan of Pelikan M800's, but that doesn't mean I buy every M800 they release. I evaluate each pen based on its own individual merits, even the limited editions.

But to be fair, there a LOT more M80x releases to consider than there are L2Ks. 

 

 

[maclink]

2 hours ago, a m a r g o said:

 

It certainly has a hefty price tag, but if this edition checks all your expectations and you think it is the right one for you, there'll be no buyers remorse!

 

I'm a little bit more orthodox, or bitter as we should really name boring people as myself, and that brown clip is a huge red flag for me...

I’m a L2K fan and also like the brown colour. I know what to expect. I decided to take the plunge after initially baulking at the idea of purchasing.  I saw one available via a dealer in Greece for £320.  The price as well as the chances of my finding it available there made me jump. 

 

I think it was delivered today. I’ll certainly comment on my unboxing and initial impressions later especially since that’s all the matters. I know what to expect from the writing experience. 

[sirgilbert357]

1 hour ago, maclink said:

But to be fair, there a LOT more M80x releases to consider than there are L2Ks. 

 

 

 

But the number of L.E. releases as ranked by company wasn't the point to which I was replying.

 

People are gripped by this ridiculous FOMO these days. It's just a pen. It will not change your life, LOL. Even if its the ONLY L.E. release the company ever makes. 😉

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

 

I am a huge fan of Pelikan M800's, but that doesn't mean I buy every M800 they release. I evaluate each pen based on its own individual merits, even the limited editions.

 

Good for you, and I think it's a wise approach. Nevertheless, there are those who tries to collect every release of Pelikan M2xx or M6xx, or Lamy Safari or Studio, just to satisfy completist urges and/or put their ‘fandom’ on proud display (and, good for them too, if they truly enjoy posting ‘family portraits’ for others to obligingly go ga-ga over); and they are the ones I think most ‘deserve’ to drive manufacturers' pricing of the upcoming limited editions, not those who would like to have the pens but place more importance on being selective and shopping smart. Those who want to steer the pricing trends downward, or at least keep them flat, need to be negotiating and/or colluding with the keener, more cashed-up fans in the market, instead of appealing to the manufacturers to be ‘reasonable’; it's reasonable to release just the right numbers of pens to satisfy the hardcore fans while also leaving enough available for newcomers to the brands to buy in, so as to foster and grow the fan bases.

 

Now, why don't we just sit back and see whether Lamy's decisions in colours, pricing, and number of units released for the 55th anniversary edition pays off by quickly selling out most of them without retailers offering significant discounts as incentive and/or in dragged out clearance sales, and then conclude whether Lamy's thinking was sound? I remember there was a fair amount of teeth-gnashing online when the details — inclusive of pricing, volume, and choice of nib(s) — of the blue Bauhaus limited edition were announced; yet the market response dominated by hobbyists seemed to more than vindicate Lamy's decisions. If this new limited edition, with 3,300 units available to be sold, manage to sell more than 2,000-odd units at close to MSRP (less whatever discounts Pelikan Lamy's regional distributors normally allow retailers to offer on new releases), then we know there were no net loss of fans or bridges burnt with the brand's target market by the release of the blue Bauhaus limited edition.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by A Smug Dill