Lamy 2000 2021 edition?

[lionelc]

On 6/6/2021 at 9:04 AM, austollie said:

So yes, I do believe that manufacturers of fountain pens owe us a reasonable pricing policy for special editions, in return for our brand loyalty.  If they choose to profiteer, I will choose to send a signal of disapproval with my wallet.

take a look at some of the montblanc threads regarding SE/LE pens - what reasonable pricing policy?  and yet, i can argue that despite this, they remain in business and their buyers have ferocious brand loyalty.  they are targeting another consumer demographic and although one may choose not to buy the particular se/le, i dont feel like this will send any sort of meaningful signal to the company.  

[A Smug Dill]

33 minutes ago, lionelc said:

although one may choose not to buy the particular se/le, i dont feel like this will send any sort of meaningful signal to the company.

 

Actually, I believe Lamy learnt from the Black Amber edition of the Lamy 2000 not selling well; the lesson being, don't make so many of a limited edition, when the demand at that price point simply isn't there even among fans. Unsatisfied demand ironically fuels more demand, when it comes to hobbyist collectibles, which in turn makes a high(er) MSRP commercially sound. If I'm not mistaken, the price of the blue Bauhaus edition was also slightly lower than the Black Amber, arguably on account of the different body material.

 

I don't think using the price of the standard model to gauge or constrain what is a reasonable price for a limited edition (of the same material) is sound thinking. Those who want cheaper can always go for the standard model, accepting all the known ‘shortcomings’ such as being more commonplace (and recognisably so to others), difficult to tell two units apart, etc. eyes wide open. The choice is the customers and/but the compromise is theirs to make and accept. Contented people don't feel as much of an urge to buy stuff continuously. Making the situation perfect from the perspective of prospective buyers does not inspire them to dig deeper into their wallets, either this time or the next time around.

 

It makes no sense to try to please (more) fans by allowing (more of) them to get what they'd like at lesser personal cost, i.e. without significant imposition or ‘sacrifice’ which would then makes them more inclined to value (as opposed to just cherish and/or adore) and talk up the worth of the item once they've committed to the purchase and secured a unit.

[Uncial]

By Smug :

It makes no sense to try to please (more) fans by allowing (more of) them to get what they'd like at lesser personal cost

 

I think this is the aspect I find hard to get my head around. Maybe I'm just too old for FOMO and such, but I keep coming back to the economics of it. I doubt Lamy care a jot about 'fans' notions of prestige at owning a limited edition that costs four times as much due to a different colour. Somewhere, somehow, it makes more economic sense for them to do it this way, but I struggle to see how it works. 

 

If I sell a black pen for a euro and then sell a pen of the same design but coloured red at 4 euro, but only sell that pen for three months and at a very limited number and then it's gone, I can only see that as economic suicide; especially if it proves really, really popular. Of course, you could endlessly do it every single year until colour changes become fairly meaningless and repetitive. They could decide to release an especially popular colour into a main lineup for good, and let's face it, labels of 'limited edition' are fairly empty and meaningless if a company finds it's on to a winner in which case they'll drop the 'LE' label and pedal the thing for every last red cent. It seems that releasing an unlimited colour (for perhaps even only one year) would be more economic sense. A lot of other pen companies work this way and appear to make a tidy living from it. But Lamy's approach - which is not only restricted to Lamy - always feels to me like a test of the market rather than any genuine 'special' product.

 

I guess, especially since I'm not any kind of economist, I just can't make the numbers add up.

[Calabria]

Smug Dill is our resident advocatus diaboli. 
 

I do sense the outrage on this thread which reminds me of the outrage over the Black Amber which was a flop (no fault of the pen.)

 

Basically, Dill is arguing for pyramid schemes such as Bitcoin. They work until they don’t. We’ll see if this one works.

 

Btw, comparisons with MB aren’t convincing - MB creates original designs for their special editions and markets them with dedicated stories. This brown Lamy is simply brown and the story is, we designed a good pen 55 years ago. 🙄 

[A Smug Dill]

On 6/11/2021 at 3:32 AM, Calabria said:

Basically, Dill is arguing for pyramid schemes such as Bitcoin. They work until they don’t.

 

I don't see how my position is in any way related to pyramid schemes. Your assertion, however, did clarify something in my mind for articulation.

 

As a consumer, and a prospective buyer in the market, (generic) ‘you’ put yourself in the position of having to compete with other consumers (who are your peers and equals in the context) whose money is as good as yours, regardless of whether they fancy themselves fountain pen hobbyists as much as you do, and irrespective of how much love for the pen model and loyalty to the brand the individual has. If your peer is prepared not to base his ideas of ‘fair’ and/or acceptable price on the basis of the teardown of components, or how much comparable alternatives (e.g. standard editions) command in the market, or the manufacturer's profitability of a particular retail offering, you'll just have to deal with the influence that asserts in the market; there is no reason why his views would be regarded as any more — or, on the flip side, any less — valid and relevant as yours, to the manufacturer, marketers, fellow hobbyists, and other observers at large. Neither of you have any higher standing than the other individually.

 

If they play their part in keeping limited edition prices buoyant or even make it profitable and sustainable for pen manufacturers to churn out limited edition after limited edition at ever-increasing MSRPs, you cannot reasonably expect the pen manufacturers to care about you and your personal values as a consumer/user/hobbyist, as if you represented a separate segment within the collective target market that deserve special attention and fulfilment.

[maclink]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

If they play their part in keeping limited edition prices buoyant or even make it profitable and sustainable for pen manufacturers to churn out limited edition after limited edition at ever-increasing MSRPs, you cannot reasonably expect the pen manufacturers to care about you and your personal values as a consumer/user/hobbyist, as if you represented a separate segment within the collective target market that deserve special attention and fulfilment.

 

I can only speak for myself with certainty, although I'm pretty sure there are others here who feel the same way.  I have never felt that manufacturers care about me or other potential or existing customers beyond how we can most efficiently be made to satisfy their own interests.

 

I give my opinion on the asking price for the upcoming 55th Anniversary L2k, a price that I am not prepared to pay even though I have an interest in the pen.  I give my opinion about the pen,  as is, and as a part of a discussion here among fellow enthusiasts.  I am not giving my opinion to Lamy as if they owe me a better price.   I have no plans to give them my opinion either.  How they choose to price their pens is up to them.  It's now up to me to decide whether or not their pen is worth the asking price from my point of view, knowing full well that it's my personal POV and no one else's.  Of course, in a forum as this, with members sharing this interest as evidenced by this very thread ongoing, I decided to share my opinion.

 

So far, I've read others sharing their opinion and their reasons for having it.  Nothing more.  Of course, one may 'lament' or feel a sense of 'what a pity' about the situation, as I personally feel, but that's all it is.  

[A Smug Dill]

15 minutes ago, maclink said:

So far, I've read others sharing their opinion and their reasons for having it.  Nothing more.

 

As they kept saying in It's a Good Life (The Twilight Zone, S3e08), that is very very good.

[austollie]

I have already stated my opinion on this topic in previous posts and won't bore people with rehashing what I have already written.  Overall, I have found the debate held on the topic of SEs to be one of the more interesting discussions held in this forum.  It has certainly helped me to understand the views of others.  I am quite surprised about how passionate various contributors feel about the pricing of SEs/ LEs.  I guess we're a passionate bunch that persists with writing with fountain pens, when the majority around us uses [in my opinion boring] ballpoint pens.

[enuhski]

Late last year, I found myself scrambling and descending into near madness (LOL) just to get my hands on a limited edition Sailor Pro Gear Slim x Nonble ragdoll cat pen, which only had 100 or so pieces in production. By hook or by crook, I got the pen for a reasonable price compared to its going rate on eBay (almost double or triple). I don't know why I'm more willing to spend on a Sailor LE pens (I have a few others aside from the ragdoll that I deliberately chased after) than a Lamy 2000 in different colors - perhaps it's really a matter of preference, but i feel like just a change in color doesn't feel like it's worth the mark-up. Don't get me wrong, I collect the Lamy safari special editions because I like how they have more to play around with, design-wise (the clip, the trim, etc.) at a reasonable price. I also think that perhaps the nature of the makrolon finish limits color and design choices, so for more interesting designs I tend to favor the special designs they have for Lamy Studio whose shape reminds me of Lamy 2000 

[Glenn-SC]

What may be a hobby to us is a business relationship to the people and companies that make pens/pencils/paper/ink/refills/etc.

 

These companies sell stuff to make a profit and stay in business.

 

If "you" think that the value of their product(s) is below the asking price, then don't buy it.

If enough people feel the same way the company will be forced to reduce their prices, or, if the price is necessitated by the material and labor costs (i.e. they can't sell a solid 18k gold pen for $25) they go out of business.

[Aysedasi]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:54 PM, otinokyad said:

Probably old news by now, but here is the first place I’ve seen it actually listed for purchase:  https://wonderpens.ca/collections/just-in/products/lamy-2000-fountain-pen-anniversary-edition-brown

 

Yes, the usual Lamy SE exorbitant pricing, but if brown ink is one of your two fave colors, well, what are you gonna do?

 

Not buy it?  Silly money.  Particularly for a rather dull brown version of the L2K.  A nice bright red one might be different.... 

[sirgilbert357]

8 hours ago, Aysedasi said:

 

Not buy it?  Silly money.  Particularly for a rather dull brown version of the L2K.  A nice bright red one might be different.... 

 

Bright red would be awesome. So would a Turmaline L2K (same color as the Al-Star Turmaline). I'd buy that with a quickness....

 

And if Lamy ever figure out how to put stripes, swirls, or shimmer into their Makrolon, we could see a whole slew of limited editions...

[marlinspike]

I can find the USD price and the CAD price,  but does anybody know the EUR price?

[peroride]

You ever get that feeling when a mere number can tug at your desire?

 

My reality distortion field warbled on the discovery today of the USA price. 😳I had been going off on CAD so seeing a lower USD number flashed a jolt of temporary reassessment, however short lived 🧐

 

At least, let's enjoy the moving visuals to be paid by the extra limited markup...🤓

 

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, marlinspike said:

I can find the USD price and the CAD price,  but does anybody know the EUR price?

 

No MSRP for the commemorative edition has been announced by Lamy in European markets that use the Euro, as far as I'm aware, if that's what you're asking.

https://www.lamy.com/de/lamy-2000-brown/

 

If you just want to know the price in a different currency, there are a plethora of currency converter apps and sites online, assuming your goal is not trying to find alternative avenues to see whether you can acquire the pen more cheaply in terms of out-of-pocket expense, irrespective of the actually transaction currency.

[marlinspike]

11 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

No MSRP for the commemorative edition has been announced by Lamy in European markets that use the Euro, as far as I'm aware, if that's what you're asking.

https://www.lamy.com/de/lamy-2000-brown/

 

If you just want to know the price in a different currency, there are a plethora of currency converter apps and sites online, assuming your goal is not trying to find alternative avenues to see whether you can acquire the pen more cheaply in terms of out-of-pocket expense, irrespective of the actually transaction currency.

US prices for Lamy and Pelikan tend to be way out of line with the rest of the world. You'll note even the CAD price is different, it's not a straight conversion.

[sirgilbert357]

13 hours ago, peroride said:

You ever get that feeling when a mere number can tug at your desire?

 

My reality distortion field warbled on the discovery today of the USA price. 😳I had been going off on CAD so seeing a lower USD number flashed a jolt of temporary reassessment, however short lived 🧐

 

At least, let's enjoy the moving visuals to be paid by the extra limited markup...🤓

 

 

Is it just me or did that video not really showcase the actual color of the pen all that well? I kept thinking there would be a brighter scene to make the brown really pop and it never happened. That could easily have been gray half the time. Underwhelming at best for me...

 

I don't think the people doing the marketing really know what fountain pen people want. The only thing different about this pen is the color. They should be showing that off in contrast to the background every chance they get.

[Calabria]

7 hours ago, sirgilbert357 said:

 

Is it just me or did that video not really showcase the actual color of the pen all that well? I kept thinking there would be a brighter scene to make the brown really pop and it never happened. That could easily have been gray half the time. Underwhelming at best for me...

 

I don't think the people doing the marketing really know what fountain pen people want. The only thing different about this pen is the color. They should be showing that off in contrast to the background every chance they get.

Yes, this video could just as well be showing the standard black version. Maybe the brown color is not that interesting?

[A Smug Dill]

10 hours ago, marlinspike said:

You'll note even the CAD price is different, it's not a straight conversion.

 

That's why I was trying to get you to clarify whether you were talking about EUR as a currency in which any price may be expressed, or specifically the MSRP for the product in European regional markets for comparison purposes. By saying EUR, which is a symbol/shorthand for the currency, you were being more specific than you probably intended, to express something other than what you intended.

[nanders9]

I posted this on r/fountainpens over on Reddit, but I thought the people in this thread may appreciate seeing the brown version outside of marketing pictures and in comparison to the standard black version. I don't own the brown Al-Star LX, but from photos, the color looks similar.

 

http://imgur.com/a/5PW45ZE