help identifying pen - history behind it?

[Ben_Sherman]

Hi All,

 

I got this fountain pen on flea market, there is no brand information except nib - Degussa (Degussa acquire the Osmia nib production unit in 1936).

It is rather small - with cap - 12 cm. As I made some reaserch I think this is some kind of Osmia (Supra?) but has some References, as piston and shape. I found that Supra had black piston with orings and this had only this metal piston with corc sealing. Additionaly this piston filling is also clouchless. Shape is rather different on the ending looks rader like Kaweco style than Osmia - Osmia had rather rounded ending. Doas anybody have an idea if it is some kind of budget OSMIA? and is it from 30's?

 

I plan to do a cork sealing and see how it works later on

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

Best Regards

Edited April 15, 2021 by Ben_Sherman

[Nethermark]

It does rather look like an Osmia Brillant, doesn't it. The ones I have also have a Degussa nib. However, Osmia's are always clearly marked as such and the piston unit does not look like those from Osmia. But there are many German fountain pens that look similar to this pen. So my guess is, its not made by Osmia, but Degussa nibs tend to be very nice

9 hours ago, Ben_Sherman said:

I found that Supra had black piston with orings

I have actually never seen O-rings on Osmia pens, including Osmia Supra's. Where did you see them with O-rings? The O-rings may be a later replacement.

[OMASsimo]

This looks like a German third tier no-name pen and to me has very little in common with an Osmia. It could be late 40s or 50s but probably not earlier. Degussa made nibs for the entire German pen industry. Just like today, they custom imprinted the nibs for their major customers but also sold nibs with their own imprint. The latter you usually can find as replacement nibs in brand pens or in very cheap pens from the countless tiny manufacturers assembling pens from standard parts. And as @Nethermark pointed out correctly, Osmia always marked their pens but also their nibs with their imprint. I also have Osmias with Degussa nib but presumably they are replacement nibs. Replacing broken nibs was very common because those pens were very expensive.

[Kaweco]

looks like a Hermann Böhler

Kind Regards

[Kaweco]

...sounds not very interesting. But there are some reasons that this is actually a Hermann Böhler fountain pen, possibly because of the cap top. Yes, Georg and Hermann Böhler, who founded Osmia in 1919 used this cap top in their 7xx series but after Hermann had left the cooperation to build up his own factory he used this design in many of his fountain pens. Normally the metal parts, like clips and rings, had not been made inhouse and Hermann Böhler used many different clips from several producers. The spade clip came IMHO from Pforzheim.

The question is: Why did a no name pen find its way to a foreign country? I think, that fleamarket finds are relatively genuine and this fp looks unused but damaged, becaue of the o- rings.

@Ben Sherman: Where did you actually find your fountainpen?

Kind Regards

Thomas

[OMASsimo]

May I contradict? I think your post is extremely interesting and I’d like to learn more. I have quite a number of Osmias but not a single Böhler pen yet. I thought that Böhler marked their pens at least on the cap top with an “HB” like Osmia did with the white diamond. Was I mistaken? I’d also judge the pen from its intestines. I haven’t seen this kind of differential piston mechanism in any of my Osmias. Did Böhler use it?

[Kaweco]

Hello Omassimo

Hermann Böhler used the differential piston mechanism. Georg Böhler used several filling mechanisms after the times of the Parker- Osmia connection, mostly the sac and push button filling.

I have only a few parts of the HermannBöhler fps with the HB emblem in an enamelled cap top. Maybe that these are scarce because the production was expensive and the plate was brittle and must surrounded by the ring of the clip.

There are two other German fp producers who used a similar Signature: Hermann F. Bachmann in Minden/Westfalen and Hans Joachim Baum in Mannheim:

[OMASsimo]

Thank you so much for your very interesting reply. I wasn’t aware that the production of the two Böhler brands diverged that much. As far as I’m aware, Osmia didn’t use the differential piston mechanism before well into the 50s or maybe even the 60s after they were entirely swallowed up by Faber-Castell. They used it in the 88x and Progress 66/77 lines.

 

But back to the Hermann Böhler pens. Does that mean that a lot of their pens were sold unmarked/unbranded? And if so, why did the brothers go such different routes?

[Kaweco]

Hello O.

Hermann Böhler split off and built up his own business because he could not agree with the interventiones of Faber. Faber had never made fps, traditionally he was a lead maker but he had world wide connectiones.

The agreement between the Böhler brothers was futhermore very good and they made fp parts for each other. Some repairmen of today say that many Osmia and Hermann Böhler parts were interchangable.

The "Progress" had initially been a diaphragma filler but Faber used the wellknown subbrand for their following modern piston fillers made with plastic- mold- in machines. Also The "Supra" which originally had been a push button filler transformed to a piston filler. Fps with this filling method had been the safest and most wanted in Germany and their export areas.

The last Osmia "Gebrauchsmusterschutz" (this is the little brother of the Patent, touching upon use and design) was labelled in July 1950 and was transfered to Faber in October 1950. So I think that this was the date when Faber took over Osmia totally. They did not use the Osmia diamond any more since 1954.

Hermann Böhler (follower) made an excellent business and his machines worked day and night, the sales seemed to be unlimited. Possibly in the 80th the works had been sold to Herlitz.

No I do not think that Hermann Böhler sold undbranded fps. I said that Shermans fp looks like a Hermann Böhler. I surely have my own therory about the origin of this fp but I do not want to publish this.

Kind Regards

Thomas

[como]

On 4/24/2021 at 8:03 AM, Kaweco said:

Hello Omassimo

Hermann Böhler used the differential piston mechanism. Georg Böhler used several filling mechanisms after the times of the Parker- Osmia connection, mostly the sac and push button filling.

I have only a few parts of the HermannBöhler fps with the HB emblem in an enamelled cap top. Maybe that these are scarce because the production was expensive and the plate was brittle and must surrounded by the ring of the clip.

There are two other German fp producers who used a similar Signature: Hermann F. Bachmann in Minden/Westfalen and Hans Joachim Baum in Mannheim:

At first glance, I thought they were four chocolate truffles! 😀

[Kaweco]

not good for your stomach!!!

I made a macro pic of 4 steel punchers for nibs.

Kind Regards

Thomas

[como]

3 minutes ago, Kaweco said:

not good for your stomach!!!

I made a macro pic of 4 steel punchers for nibs.

Kind Regards

Thomas

😀😀😀Indeed! They are beautiful to look at though, and very interesting. Thank you!

[OMASsimo]

2 hours ago, Kaweco said:

Hello O.

Hermann Böhler split off and built up his own business because he could not agree with the interventiones of Faber. Faber had never made fps, traditionally he was a lead maker but he had world wide connectiones.

The agreement between the Böhler brothers was futhermore very good and they made fp parts for each other. Some repairmen of today say that many Osmia and Hermann Böhler parts were interchangable.

The "Progress" had initially been a diaphragma filler but Faber used the wellknown subbrand for their following modern piston fillers made with plastic- mold- in machines. Also The "Supra" which originally had been a push button filler transformed to a piston filler. Fps with this filling method had been the safest and most wanted in Germany and their export areas.

The last Osmia "Gebrauchsmusterschutz" (this is the little brother of the Patent, touching upon use and design) was labelled in July 1950 and was transfered to Faber in October 1950. So I think that this was the date when Faber took over Osmia totally. They did not use the Osmia diamond any more since 1954.

Hermann Böhler (follower) made an excellent business and his machines worked day and night, the sales seemed to be unlimited. Possibly in the 80th the works had been sold to Herlitz.

No I do not think that Hermann Böhler sold undbranded fps. I said that Shermans fp looks like a Hermann Böhler. I surely have my own therory about the origin of this fp but I do not want to publish this.

Kind Regards

Thomas

 

I cannot thank you enough for sharing your deep knowledge so generously! I am very much interested in the Osmia/Böhler history but it is hard to find the more serious details that you share here. However, I wouldn't like to hijack this thread here and wonder if we should start a new one about my Osmia questions.