Pelikan 100 nib

[Nethermark]

I recently bought a Pelikan 100 with a nib, I hadn't seen before. As you can see, both 'Pelikan' and '14 KARAT' is written with double lines that are hatched on the inside, while the '585' is single line. The Pelikan Collectibles site doesn't show this variation, but only ones, where either all text is in double hatched lines - but then there is no '585' inscription but only '14 KARAT' - or where only 'Pelikan' is written in double hatched lines and the gold denomination is in single lines.

 

What surprised me a bit was that the nib came in a later model 100. It is injection molded with a smooth turning knob, which would indicate a production date after 1940 according to Pelikan Collectibles. However, the double hatches lines would indicate an earlier production. Off course many nibs were probably replaced later, but then I would expect a later nib in an earlier model pen. But then , maybe the owner har damaged the pen, but not the nib and just got a new barrel... 

 

So my questions are: Has anybody else seen this variation, how common is it and what would be a likely production date?

 

 

 

 

[tacitus]

Hello Nethermark

 

I'm very interested in your pen and its dating, as I just started a thread for this purpose.

 

I have the nib with same inscription and the double hatched line 

IMO, this is not so common, but not so rare. Mine has old old four chicks logo and ebonite/celluloid body, suggesting it was produced around 1937.

 

I am not sure when your pen was produced.

If it was “marriage” or for foreign production, that combination would be possible.

https://www.angelfire.com/mac/penguin0/oldsite/full_article.html

It is long but worth reading.

 

 

[laomo]

That's an earlier nib than the one with the emblem.  I've seen a.lot of these.  It has the "dotted" "Pelikan."  I think it is beautiful!

According to the Pelikan's Perch blog, these are called "script nibs" and were replaced by the "logo nib" around 1954.  Useful way to date pens.

Maybe you already know all this, and I missed the point?  Sorry in that case.

[mana]

I have three of those in 100N. IMHO one of the more beautiful variants of the script nibs, bested only by the earlier 100 nibs which have a more slender profile and IMHO more prominent (deep & crisp) stampings.

[stoen]

I would date this nib between 1937 (when they introduced the 585 or 750 marks) and 1939 (when they stopped making them), probably to the earlier part of this two-year period. They are also characterized by a rather prominent air hole. That’s mu fair estimation.

 

I also have one exactly like this.

 

I’ve even seen one with the opposite order scripting:

 

Pelikan

  •14•

KARAT

  585

 

How this beautiful nib survived the WWII and appeared in a later model body, I can only guess.

🙂

[Nethermark]

Thank you all for your quick and knowledgeable response!

 

6 hours ago, tacitus said:

I'm very interested in your pen and its dating, as I just started a thread for this purpose.

Tacitus, I saw your very interesting thread and I'm looking forward to the next posts. 

 

6 hours ago, tacitus said:

IMO, this is not so common, but not so rare. Mine has old old four chicks logo and ebonite/celluloid body, suggesting it was produced around 1937.

Mine has a two chick logo and celluloid cap top, the remainder of the cap is hard rubber. That may also indicate something like 1937/38, but I was a bit confused by the injection molded body, which would indicate after 1940.

6 hours ago, laomo said:

That's an earlier nib than the one with the emblem.  I've seen a.lot of these.  It has the "dotted" "Pelikan."  I think it is beautiful!

According to the Pelikan's Perch blog, these are called "script nibs" and were replaced by the "logo nib" around 1954.  Useful way to date pens.

Maybe you already know all this, and I missed the point?  Sorry in that case.

Hi Laomo, thank you for your reply. As far as I understand, all the Pelikan nibs with only 'Pelikan' and a denomination of the gold content are called 'script nibs'. As you mention, the Logo nibs first turn up around 1954 and therefore were never put in the Pelikan 100, as they stopped production of these in 1944. But especially for the Pelikan 100 and 100N, there is a wide variety in the precise design of the script nib, that can help determine when the pen was produced. So as you mention, the nib design is a very useful way to date Pelikan pens.

 

5 hours ago, mana said:

I have three of those in 100N. IMHO one of the more beautiful variants of the script nibs

Very interesting, Mana. Could you post some photo's of your 100N pens with this nib design? The only 100N nibs with the double hatched line script that I have seen, only have 'Pelikan' in that script and the gold denomination in single line script. I really love these nibs too!

 

4 hours ago, stoen said:

I would date this nib between 1937 (when they introduced the 585 or 750 marks) and 1939 (when they stopped making them), probably to the earlier part of this two-year period. They are also characterized by a rather prominent air hole. That’s mu fair estimation.

Thank you for your reply Stoen. That confirms my suspicion that the nib may very well be older than the body of the pen. However, if the nib is from 1939 and the injection molded pens were introduced in 1940, it may fit very well. In that case, they just put the remainder of the old production nibs in the new body. 

[stoen]

2 hours ago, Nethermark said:

However, if the nib is from 1939 and the injection molded pens were introduced in 1940, it may fit very well. In that case, they just put the remainder of the old production nibs in the new body. 

This may be possible, but is a bit unlikely. One shouldn’t forget that in 1940 Germany was at war with the free world, thanks to Hitler and his regime. As of 1939, gold was declared strategic metal and all the golden objects were seized by the state: even the pens serviced had the golden nibs replaced by palladium ones by decree, and with chrome-nickel steel as of 1940 in all countries under german occupation. That’s why not so many of the early nibs have survived. 

This is as much as I know, but there are very elaborate contributions in the “Pelikan nibs by Montblanc” thread.

[Nethermark]

That makes sense Stoen. Thank you for all the great information!

[mana]

16 hours ago, Nethermark said:

Very interesting, Mana. Could you post some photo's of your 100N pens with this nib design? The only 100N nibs with the double hatched line script that I have seen, only have 'Pelikan' in that script and the gold denomination in single line script. I really love these nibs too!

Since there is a great chance that the nibs are not exactly original to the specific pens (all are run of the mill post-1949 100N), here is a picture of the nibs though.

 

[laomo]

I have learned so much from this thread!  Thanks to all.

[Barutti]

Sorry if I interrupt the thread regarding double hatched line script, but I found this discussion very useful and want to ask about special marking on mine Pelikan 100, which looks like "N" mark. I don't have ideas about the meaning. Manufacturer stamp, special nib? Thank you for the ideas and/or information.

   

[Nethermark]

1 hour ago, mana said:

here is a picture of the nibs though.

Those are looking great! I really like the font with the double lines and hatches. Interesting too that the pens are late models.

[Nethermark]

50 minutes ago, Barutti said:

I found this discussion very useful and want to ask about special marking on mine Pelikan 100, which looks like "N" mark. I don't have ideas about the meaning.

Look at the thread below. Someone here mentions that an 'N' nib indicates a right oblique nib. I'ts a bit difficult to see on your photos, but your nib may indeed be a right oblique. Could you perhaps upload a photo of the nib taken directly from above?

 

 

[Barutti]

For me looks not oblique.

[stoen]

This is my nib of your specification. It has been identified as “late pre-war” by those who were more expert in this subject and had thousands of vintage Pelikans on their repair desks...

 

It is a very soft and flexible F nib, the flexiest of all the nibs I’ve written with so far.

 

I’ve never come across a nib with N mark...

 

 

 

Here’s another thread discussing N & Z nibs:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355318-pelikan-100n-n-z-nibs/

 

[mana]

Pelikan identified right oblique nibs (at some point) with R (Recht = Right). There is actually one RB right oblique vintage Pelikan nib unit (for 400 series pens it seems) up for sale at ebay (too rich for me atm. unfortunately) > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333921912677

 

Barutti, that kind of looks very slightly right oblique (and the slant of the N hints at the same). Anyway, I have one N-nib and my example is very, very flexy EF left oblique. And with that I mean flexiest Pelikan nib I've ever had the pleasure to use.

 

In another thread where these were discussed a Z nib was brought up which had similar properties. From what I recall one fellow with one had contacted Pelikan archives and gotten a reply that those were special order nibs meant for architectural drafting or somesuch. For the N-nibs... things were kind of left up in the air (IIRC).

[mana]

The N-nib is the one on the right.

[Barutti]

Thank you, mana.

Mine "N" marked nib from Pelikan 100 is very flexible too.  But is good idea to write directly to Pelikan co. archives.. 

Giedrius

[Bo Bo Olson]

My post war green ink window, (pre-war = amber) 100n, has an Easy Full Flex gold nib; the first of three stages of superflex.

Then comes Wet Noodle.......and that # 4 MB nib is what John Sowaboda)sp) the English nib grinder calls a 'Weak Kneed Wet Noodle."  (The only one I've ever pressed to my thumbnail.)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mid, 1936 Hitler stole the gold. No more gold nibs. So late pre'war is wrong.

 

Boehler brothers split Osmia in 1936, and the pre-war Boehler pens had some gold plated Italian or Chech nibs. Italy was allied with Germany so some slack could be given. Boehler had to give some class to his new named Osmia pens, and gold plating on a nib beat the  hell out of the steel or CN nibs everyone else had legally to offer. 

 

The upper pen had gold plating.

Boeler hadn't made a deal then when they split the company with Degussa (which made Osmai's nibs in the once Osmia's nib factory; still located in it's pen factory because the workers refused to move 50 miles away from home and friends. Osmia lost the nib factory to the gold supplier Degussa in 1932 for debt, so for nibs so had to use others. Osmai didn't have a office supply company to back up it's pens like Soennecken, MB or Pelikan, so in spite of making a first class pen, always broke.

Both nibs are 'foreign'.

As did this full tortoise mdl 54 Boehler Gold*. 54 was a regular Osmia offering.

*Gold was one of Boehler's three levels of pen.

[stoen]

4 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Mid, 1936 Hitler stole the gold. No more gold nibs. So late pre'war is wrong.

This must be a typo. Please be so kind to correct it. AFAIK and several reference sites can confirm, there was no gold nib restriction before September 38 when Palladium nibs were introduced...

🙂