Early 1950 Pelikan 400 with a 18Ct Gunther Wagner friction nib

[tacitus]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:07 PM, Severn said:

... It has no Pelikan logo on the cap and has Gunther Wagner Germany stamped around the barrel. The mechanical pencil also has Gunther Wagner Germany stamped around the clip ...

 

 

Hello Severn

Special nib. Congratulations!

 

Can anyone here tell why no Pelikan logo?

 

[carola]

As far as I know, you can read everything known about these pens here (as already mentioned in posting #2 of this thread):

 

https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/en/Pelikan/Models/Revised-Piston-Fillers/400-Basis/index.html

[stoen]

It was most likely a prototype, not yet branded.

 

And here’s the 1949 Theodor Kovacs US patent for the pen:

http://www.fountainpen.it/images/6/67/Patent-US-D160180.pdf

🙂

 

 

[tacitus]

Thank you carola and stoen 

 

[joss]

6 hours ago, stoen said:

It was most likely a prototype, not yet branded.

 

Maybe we should be careful with the word "prototype", after all the pen itself is a regular Pelikan 400 but with a number of uncommon features indeed.

[stoen]

13 hours ago, joss said:

Maybe we should be careful with the word "prototype", after all the pen itself is a regular Pelikan 400 but with a number of uncommon features indeed.

May I, please, assume the freedom of asking which criteria for identifying something as “careful”, and/or “regular” could be accepted?

 

Is the item branded as Pelikan? Not, AFAICT. Was the brand Pelikan present in the french market at that time? Yes, AFAIK.

 

In which terms is it regular? In terms of materials, design and engineering it is conformant to the Kovacs patent and the first mareted series of the #400, manufactured for only the first three months.

 

Here is a quotation from the above mentioned reference:

“The model is not known in the Pelikan archive and no further information can be found regarding this fountain pen or the nib.”

 

Therefore, with all due care, one can presume this pen belonging to a series we may identify today as “public beta”, a pre-release series targeted at some kind of test market...

...which can be regarded as late prototype for the subsequently mass-produced pen.

 

[mana]

Re: the use of "prototype". A prototype would be a unique, first a of a kind model or a new variant of a product/design made explicitly for product development or testing purposes (so, not a production run item). This ain't it.

Pelikan offered different types of end caps for sale as accessories (red and white are shown in the books "Pelikan Schreibgeräte" etc.). As it is a replaceable part I see no reason to call this pen a prototype based on that alone. The friction fit nib was a thing they did initially and I am sure there exist prototypes of that. It does not make it a prototype either. Nor does the fact that it had an 18k nib (made for French market).

Also, they had production runs customised with a company logo to be given as business gifts (Bosch is one example of that). Blank non-branded cap tops are a requirement for that. Why does this pen have one without branding? IIRC they did try to market these pens as "Gunther Wagner" at some point to maybe something specific to the French market? Still not a prototype.

So... I would call this a rare limited production run pen (yes, not mass produced but still, a production run pen) with some unique features. It was exported to France with a customs stamp/proof mark denoting it as a retail item (so there most likely exist multiples of these).

[carola]

It seems very little is known about those pens, but I would very much second manas point of view.

[stoen]

I would also stand for such a point of view if it wasn’t about an unmistakenly identifiable early series. Therefore I’m leaning toward seeing it more as a market testing item...

 

Blank unbranded cap tops were not necessary requirements for business gifts. I’ve seem “branded cap top” Siemens and some other Pelikans...

 

As for the customs stamp, it has more to do with gold control regulations of that time than with identifying commerciability, AFAIK. Because of lacking any hard-proof, all evidence is circumstantial which is the main problem.

 

With additional information and/or evidence, I’ll gladly change my point of view.

(-:

[mana]

We shall live with that

[stoen]

Of course I did not mean an in-house developmental prototype, nor this pen being unambiguously identifiable as prototype.

 

I remember the Magnum having been considered an unusual, undocumented series of 100N or even 101N for decades, until someone from Portugal discovered an export/import declaration for a batch of 1600, dated December 1935, which was some sort of “hard proof”..:

🙂

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'd never seen a Gunther Wagner nib.

I had heard of the rare '50 friction fit before, not that nib.

 

My 400nn has what I thought a friction fit feed (that someone had mentioned on that pen), however someone more expert told me friction fit 400nn's didn't exist and all I just had was a broken collar. I'm not going to pull the nib out again to see if he's right, in I forget if it had threads or not, and The maxi-semi-flex OF Nib works Just Great , and I don't want to fiddle around with what works.

Perhaps the next time it gets inked. I may have said that 4-5 times.

[OMASsimo]

On 3/12/2021 at 9:12 AM, Severn said:

I pulled out the nib unit and it is a friction nib. Was thinking about removing the nib from feed, but I don't need to and I don't want to risk damaging it.

 

 

That’s abosolutely terrific! So, you really got a super rare bird in excellent condition and for a very reasonable price. I hope you will enjoy it for a very long time. I also like the 450 mechanical pencil. Pelikan’s pencils were miles ahead those of most other manufacturers of the time.

[Severn]

She writes beautifully and the nib has a nice semi flex to it. The mechanical pencil also is surprisingly nice too. Heavier than I expected and uses the same transparent celluloid barrel, but instead you can only see the steel tube inside. It also has a reassuring springy firm click when advancing the lead. I think the lead it uses is 1.18mm, but can you use 1mm lead too? It's much easier to find 1mm lead.

[OMASsimo]

I’m only familiar with the 14k nibs of the period and I absolutely love them. The flex can vary quite a bit from nib to nib, which, in my opinion, adds a lot of character to those vintage pens.

Yes, the leads are 1.18mm and, unfortunately, 1.0mm won’t work. This is a main nuisance with those vintage pencils. The leads are produced again but not like the modern standard sizes.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Online....the 450 is worth it........and once you've figured out how to open the back, there might well be lead in it. There was in mine.

As I've said, that 450 was such a joy to use, I stopped using fountain pens until I ran out of the first lead in the pencil....and that from someone that had hated MP's all his life.

Good thing it took me a while to figure out how to open it, then I'd not know what to do with all them fountain pens.

[Severn]

I have already opened the back and it was actually full of lead - another good surprise! Do you know if barrel or cone tip can unscrew? It doesn't seem to and I don't want to force it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

No, my front cone is unmoving. I too didn't want to force it.

Enjoy it's great balance.

 

 

[joss]

On 3/14/2021 at 12:10 AM, Severn said:

I have already opened the back and it was actually full of lead - another good surprise! Do you know if barrel or cone tip can unscrew? It doesn't seem to and I don't want to force it.

 

The front cone/nozzle can be unscrewed thereby releasing the pencil mechanism from the top. I once made a picture of the different pencil parts of a crumbling tortoise 550 pencil; scroll down to the last pictures in this thread:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/335997-pelikan-550-brown-tortoise-shell-pencil-and-question/

[Severn]

Good to know, thanks joss. Hopefully I won't need to disassemble it any time soon, but  sad to see your pencil in that state though.