Dating Pelikan fountain Pen

[stoen]

17 hours ago, tacitus said:

Günter Wagner sought for a better sealing system and version 4 was the answer.

I don’t find the 4th generation sealing system to be better. It was only easier to manufacture, simpler to maintain and less prone to wear, due to the absence of lateral sealing mechanism.

 

Isn’t it probable that at some point some Pelikan repair shops started “tweaking” the 4th geneartion spare-part tubes when they ran out of 3rd generation spare parts? To be at least cosmetically alike?

🙂

 

[tacitus]

3 hours ago, stoen said:

...It was only easier to manufacture, simpler to maintain and less prone to wear...

 

I think that was important for Günter Wagner as the pen manufacturer, and for the company as of 1933, and the 4th generation was the solution that cost-cutting and performance went together.

[stoen]

5 hours ago, tacitus said:

cost-cutting and performance went together.

Cost-cutting, simplicity, maintenence and serviceability have definitely been upgraded in the 4th generation, I still find 3rd generation seals having performed slightly better in preventing air pressure sensitive ink leaks and condensation.

I’ve accidentally tested it in several airplanes.

🙂

I also presume users might have found the new section design more ergonomical in writing.

[tacitus]

7 hours ago, stoen said:

...I still find 3rd generation seals having performed slightly better in preventing air pressure sensitive ink leaks and condensation. I’ve accidentally tested it in several airplanes.🙂...

Thank you for information @stoen!

Your 100s would never have dreamed of flying at 30,000 feet😉.

 

[tacitus]

13 hours ago, stoen said:

...I still find 3rd generation seals having performed slightly better in preventing air pressure sensitive ink leaks and condensation. I’ve accidentally tested it in several airplanes.🙂...

Thank you for information @stoen.

Your pens would never have dreamed of flying at 30,000 feet😉.

 

[stoen]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:10 AM, tacitus said:

 

Your pens would never have dreamed of flying at 30,000 feet😉.

Actually today’s modern pressurized cabins of passenger planes flying as high as 42000ft are probably more “pressure stable” than the cabins of early planes which used to fly in the thirties... It’s my educated guess.

🙂

[tacitus]

ADDENDUM to Fourth generation

Before going to the next generation, I want to stop by a pen, or rather its cap top.

 

Günter Wagner made short cap top pens for the export markets.

The lineup were as follows (Green Book):

black / green (standard)
black / black (standard)
red-brown / tortoiseshell
coral red / coral red
jade green / jade green etc.

 

However, I have never seen “standard” short cap top pen in person or on the web. Have you?

 

Last three pens correspond to model 101. The model was characterized by colored cap and sleeve made of the same material. They were destined mainly for the export markets, as colorful pens were not popular with conservative German consumers. For English-speaking countries, the brand name was “Pelican” not Pelikan (万年筆おやじの備忘録). They were introduced in 1935 for the first time (in the same year, new color sleeves (mother of pearl, brown marble) were added to model 100).   

 

Pelikan 101 (short cap top) (ca.1935)

Short cap top variants were produced using the basic model 101. AFAIK, all 101 models have their short cap top (pelikan-guide.com). As shown in Graph, the cap itself is as long as model 100 (I do not own the basic 101), because the cap top was shortened while the cap tube was extended. The cap has the same vent hole position as model 100  (Fig.1). The clip remained unchanged. My pen has “Pelikan PATENT” on the cap top. 

 

Graph	Cap	Cap top	Cap tube
	length	length	length
101 (short cap top)	61 mm	8.5 mm	51.5 mm
100	62 mm	16.5 mm	44.5 mm

 

Fig.1

left; 101 (short cap top), right; 100

 

Green Book presents two possible reasons for the development of the model. One was to protect the pen from being robbed in countries with greater risk of pickpocket. Another was the need for the pens that fit the breast pocket on army uniforms. In both cases, buttoning up the breast pocket was required when a pen was clipped. Only short cap top made it possible without the bulge of the flap. Fig. 2 shows that short cap top 101 makes less bulge in my ｗaist pocket　

(I don't have the breast pocket to button up).

 

Fig.2

left; 101 (short cap top), right; 100.

 

According to Green Book, the pen, being "disproportional", all the more attracts the collectors’ interest. What do you think?

 

Fig.3

[stoen]

Yet annother First Generation Addendum.

 

Here’s what I believe must have been the leaflet supplied with 1st generaton pens. Please pardon my posting this so late - I found it only very recently:

Here’s the translation:

 

15 different nibs, only one pen.

Further individualisation of nibs, absolute standardization of the pen.

Each of its parts being crafted on special automata - 81 automated tools for 8 individual parts - with such acciracy and precision that each part of any pen can be substituted for the same part of another pen.

No more repairs!

Replacement of a single part at most.

Please, visit the Pelikan factory and convince yourself in the modern and technically perfect tool-up.

                    Feasible through specialized shops.

                    GÜNTHER WAGNER

————

The Pelikan Fountain Pen.

a self-filling, secure pen, transparent, with a large ink space, never blotting, always write-ready, a technically perfect, german, enterprise strength writing instrument.

————-

Self-filling without a rubber sac.

A hard rubber piston moving by means of a pattented differential transmission, filling the Pelikan - in fact quickly and cleanly - since it’s enough to dip the nib tip.

————-

Large, transparent ink space

therefore timely inking

 

Large, transparent ink space

therefore less frequent inking

————

One twist and write-ready.

The capped pen is air-and-ink tight. Yet writing is only one cap twist away.

————

A first-class nib - a secure nib.

The gold nib is also of Pelikan quality - the most loaded, best gold and the hardest osmi-iridium. For protection of such a valuable nib a particular cap has been devised. Never does the nib scratch the sealing surfaces, and never can the cap damage the Pelikan gold nib.

 

 

[debraji]

Thank you for posting such detailed information. I've enjoyed following along. 

 

[tacitus]

Thank you for the post @stoen. Very interesting user instructions.

We can see how Günter Wagner was confident in its first fountain pen..

[stoen]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:09 AM, tacitus said:

Green Book presents two possible reasons for the development of the model. One was to protect the pen from being robbed in countries with greater risk of pickpocket. Another was the need for the pens that fit the breast pocket on army uniforms.

Opening up to military markets may have been a very convincing reason for this design variation. 

Quote

According to Green Book, pen, being called “disproportional”...

The idea about the pen being “disproportional” is somewhat strange to understand: the only proportion changed is the size of cap tube, increased approximately by the length of the recessed part of cap top, only affecting the position of the clip exactly as devised, in fact.

 

There’s an urban legend about the first batch of recessed cap tops possibly having been devised for some US Army officers’ order or Army Supply Store, but I haven’t come across a written evidence in support of that, nor I have seen a photo of a Wehrmacht officer with such a pen. I have an impression they’ve been rather common in Portugal. I don’t know about France, UK or Poland...

Colored and decorated caps were still made for export only, back in 1935, seemingly. Some say that german market was of very conservative taste back then.

Even the 75th Anniversary Green Book is somewhat inconsistent in naming the non-black cap models. In one place they call them a “101”, yet in another place they call a red ebonite cap model a “100”. 

 

Upon having inspected many of their historic pens and consulted quite a few experts, I lean toward calling pre-war plain ebonite cap top-and-tube pens (black, red) “100”, and all other celluloid cap tube models with decorative patterns as “101”. I haven’t seen black ebonite recessed top caps in person, although every now and then some photos of such a pen appear on the web.

 

I don’t know enough about post war 100N/101N pens, all made of celluloid/acetate/acrylic, but I’m sure it will be discussed “proportionally” with the corresponding pen generation being presented.

 

 

[tacitus]

Thank you for the post @stoen.

I'm very happy to see the short cap top pen with green sleeve!

As you pointed out, it is not disproportional at all.

[tacitus]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:06 PM, stoen said:

Upon having inspected many of their historic pens and consulted quite a few experts, I lean toward calling pre-war plain ebonite cap top-and-tube pens (black, red) “100”, and all other celluloid cap tube models with decorative patterns as “101”.

 

Hello @stoen 

I just found the description about model 101 on the official site.
According to it, it seems that red-brown (cap) / tortoiseshell (sleeve) was an alternative option for tortoiseshell / tortoiseshell, and thus called "101".

On the other hand, the pen does not have "colored cap and sleeve made of the same material". I don't know if that model had its definition, but some experts may call it "100".

[stoen]

9 hours ago, tacitus said:

On the other hand, the pen does not have "colored cap and sleeve made of the same material".

Thanks for your concern, @tacitus. These two contradicting descriptions have been points of ambiguity for quite some time.

 

I don’t have a Green Book at hand at the moment. However, in one page they call a red tortoise desk pen a “100”.

I base my conclusions on the following facts:

• the plain ebonite cap (black, red) models have been often marketed outside Germany as “100”. I haven’t found the “alternative” model in german price lists so far.
• the Magnum which was the precursor of the 100N as such, was itself a red tortoise pen.
• the 100/101 differentiation really began to take place two years later, with the model 101N (matching binde & cap tube color). The red ebonite Pelikan 100 (or 101) was a rather rare model and might have been easily considered either.
• there was a basic “short cap (black ebonite, green binde)” 100 model. So, having a “basic “101” model already invented need not have been a pre-requisite for making alternative or “derived short cap models”, which are nowadays “officially” recognized as 101 features, as it might be concluded from the Green Book or official Pelikan page. 

 

 

 

[tacitus]

Thank you @stoen😀.

As you pointed out, primary sources such as posters, brochures or price lists of the time or the pen itself take priority over secondary sources such as books and official sites in question.

[joss]

30 minutes ago, tacitus said:

Thank you @stoen😀.

Your comments remind me that primary sources such as posters, brochures or price lists of the time or the pen itself take priority over secondary sources such as books and official sites in question.

 

The importance for us is indeed to provide proper references/evidence when statements are made.

 

But the author of the 'green book' was a Pelikan employee who had unlimited access to the Pelikan archives (which likely include posters, brochures and price lists) so it is quite offensive to rate that book as as 'secondary source', even if it may contain some minor inaccuracies. The author also wrote the Pelikan history that is presented on the official Pelikan website (www.pelikan.com).

The info that Dominic has gathered on his Pelikan collectibles website is backed up by solid evidence from original catalogs and brochures and you can easily contact him if you find wrong data on his website.

 

[joss]

6 hours ago, stoen said:

the plain ebonite cap (black, red) models have been often marketed outside Germany as “100”.

 

Do you have catalogs or brochures that label the early Pelikan (flat twist knob version, < 1937) with the red ebonite cap as being a "100"?

[stoen]

Quote

 

But the author of the 'green book' was a Pelikan employee who had unlimited access to the Pelikan archives (which likely include posters, brochures andprice lists) so it is quite offensive to rate that book as as 'secondary source', even if it may contain someminor inaccuracies. 

This is a quite a strong statement, @joss, but thank you very much. If daring to point at inaccuracies in the Green Book (no matter how minor) was as “quite offensive” as you may feel free to call it, than what would be the point in participating this thread?

 

After all, it is about dating the Pelikan pens, and goes into details which are perhaps known to the authors of the book, but were possibly ommitted for practical reasons.

 

With all due respect to you, to the Green Book and its authors’ knowledge, committment and unlimited resources, I feel free to do individual research backed by facts and arguments which may occasionally happen to go beyond what has been included in the Book. Last, but not least, I hope sharing my research may be helpful to the thread diversity, no matter how arguable it may be seen in comparison to some interpretations of the Green Book, rather than to the Book itself.

 

Please, feel free to disagree or ask a question, it will make the thread more objective, but also please be so considerate not to put into my words meanings or intentions they do not have.

 

If you think I may have to appologize to someone for my research, please let me know. Thanks for your attention.

 

 

[stoen]

12 minutes ago, joss said:

Do you have catalogs or brochures that label the early Pelikan (flat twist knob version, < 1937) with the red ebonite cap as being a "100"?

If you mean the short, recessed cap top version, I don’t have a catalog for the pre-1937 red short cap version. I have seen one in Portuguese, I believe, and one in Polish, a while ago.

 

Yet, I also have no evidence that a pre-1937 black-green “standard” recessed-captop pen was ever called a “101”.  If you had some evidence, please let know, this would help a lot.

 

I am referring to the statement that short cap models were derived from a basic 101.

🙂

[joss]

1 hour ago, stoen said:

I feel free to do individual research backed by facts and arguments which go beyond what has been included in the book. Last, but not least, I hope to be helpful to the thread diversity by sharing my research, no matter how arguable it may be as compared to some interpretations of the Green Book rather than with the Book itself.

 

Doing new research should be encouraged but the conclusions that are drawn should be evidence based and not result from mere gut feelings. When we correct old knowledge or add new knowledge we should have the decency to include proper evidence. Statements that are accompanied by a "as far as I know" or "if I remember correctly" or "I think that I have seen" are essentially worthless and they also contaminate the knowledge that was gathered based on facts.