Opaque ink search

[Inky.Fingers]

For black, I used Platinum's Carbon Ink -- Beautiful black.  Absolutely no shades.  No matter what pen you use....always BLACK.

 

This is what I like....I've been using it since I found it most useful.  Thanks for @AmberleaDavis for this suggestion.

 

Now I am searching for Lapis Lazuli (Ultramarine Blue).  This color is just absolutely beautiful.  Just pure ecstasy.

Is there an ink that is pure Lapis Lazuli, non-shading, and not feathering?

 

I am at lost using BayState Blue.

 

Thank you for your kind responses.

[arcfide]

IME, a significant number of the Noodler's inks have a tendency to resist shading, but you may struggle with feathering depending on the paper. However, those might be the best in terms of getting you the "Opague" experience. All the pigmented blue inks that I've tried have given significant amounts of shading. I'd just go through Noodler's catalogue and get some samples to try. They are a pain though, sometimes. 😉

[sansenri]

Never wanted to try BayState blue. Too many horror stories...

You might want to try Montblanc Ultramarine, I have not yet, but it looks nice and saturated.

[Inky.Fingers]

Thanks for the replies.  Got some blues to try out.  Nothing spectacular as BayState Blue.

 

Gotta get a bottle of MontBlanc Ultramarine.

 

[Uncial]

MB do a lapis blue, and very nice it is too, but has shading.

MB Ultramarine is purple....at least, it is to my eye.

[Inky.Fingers]

Well that was silly... these two inks seems to me are the same ink.

Sailor Ultramarine is a bit fast on drying.  Montblanc Ultramarine is slow dry and a thicker ink.

 

and both is a bit purple-ish.

 

Is there a BSB ink that plays nice and opaque & not shaded?

 

]

[arcfide]

What paper are you using, with what pens? Did you try Noodler's Liberty Elysium or Pilot Iroshizuku Kon-peki, or Sailor Storia Night, or Namiki Blue, or any of the others? 

 

You will not find a color as "bright" as BSB in terms of color that is "well-behaved", IMO. Have you tried some of the Herbin or Jackques Herbin inks? 

[Inky.Fingers]

It is a broad edged dip pen.

No other inks than the ones mentioned.  Plain paper is where I needed to use with the ink.

 

I think I have too much bottles of ink.  It's time to use them or give away.

 

Objective is most unsatisfactory.

 

Thanks for your suggestion but I think no more buying of ink bottles.

[arcfide]

29 minutes ago, Inky.Fingers said:

It is a broad edged dip pen.

No other inks than the ones mentioned.  Plain paper is where I needed to use with the ink.

 

I think I have too much bottles of ink.  It's time to use them or give away.

 

Objective is most unsatisfactory.

 

Thanks for your suggestion but I think no more buying of ink bottles.

 

I'm in favor of using up the bottles of ink! But if you're doing a broad edged pen with plain (not fountain pen friendly) paper, you're in for a heap of unahppiness with pretty much all of the fountain pen inks I know of. I'd be going for the pigmented dip pen or calligraphy inks in that case, as they are more likely to be opaque. 🙂

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, Inky.Fingers said:

Well that was silly... these two inks seems to me are the same ink.

Sailor Ultramarine is a bit fast on drying.  Montblanc Ultramarine is slow dry and a thicker ink.

 

I don't understand. How can the two behave and/or perform differently, as you've already pointed out, yet be the same ink, no matter whether they present in the exact same colour (hue, value and saturation) and with the same degree of shading (or lack thereof) on the page? The ink, as a tangible substance, is not the ultimate end result you get from using it.

 

2 hours ago, Inky.Fingers said:

Is there a BSB ink that plays nice and opaque & not shaded?

 

40 minutes ago, arcfide said:

I'd be going for the pigmented dip pen or calligraphy inks in that case, as they are more likely to be opaque.

 

I agree with @arcfide there. If such an ink exists, it'd probably be a thick pigment ink that is not suitable for use in fountain pens but formulated to reproduce BSB's colour, and chances would be that you don't already have a bottle of it.

[sansenri]

J.H Eclat de Saphir is a nice sapphire blue, somewhat similar to Diamine Sapphire, but in my opinion slightly brighter.

However as most J.H inks it does shade.

If you want the no shade effect you can also try to avoid glossy paper. With less glossy paper, ink is absorbed and looks more opaque. Of course you should use a less shading ink, otherwise some shading will nonethless be visible even on less glossy paper.

[Inky.Fingers]

Thank you for the advices.  I am not a novice with the use of fountain pen.  The dip pen is a tool, for me, to test the ink.  My EDC is a Salior Calligraphy 1.0mm and a Pelikan M600 with a CI.

 

So searching for a BSB ink is futile per AmberleaDavis.  Researching begins for me without buying another bottle.  I am going dry!

[A Smug Dill]

39 minutes ago, Inky.Fingers said:

So searching for a BSB ink is futile per AmberleaDavis.

 

I just don't understand what you're saying. Noodler's Baystate Blue is the only BSB ink, unless you're saying BSB is an independently well-defined colour in its own right, and not premised on Noodler's Ink's version of it being the reference colour.

 

It doesn't sound like you're searching for anything. You already have all the inks you're at all prepared to consider. Why not just start considering them (by testing as many as you want for behaviour, opacity and degree of shading) and deciding which ones make the cut as being acceptable for your intended purposes, even though a perfect match for what you want is unlikely? You don't need us to tell you about what you already have. Whereas I think we'd love to help by telling you alternative, better solutions (if they exist) that you don't already have, so that you could decide whether to abandon the ‘search’ and/or testing within what you have and venture outside that limited scope, or choose to accept the best out of the different degrees of imperfection because you've put a higher priority on not acquiring more inks.

[arcfide]

4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

I just don't understand what you're saying.

 

A believe too much is being left unsaid in most paragraphs, but I think I get the point. @Inky.Fingers appears to want an ink that is exactly like the color of BSB with the same low shading behavior, except without any of the drawbacks, namely, it shouldn't feather, bleed, dry too slowly or too quickly, shouldn't shade, and should work without issue in the pens that are used. That's, of course, more or less impossible. 

 

@Inky.FingersSince you are not a novice here, I'm sure you are aware that the whole point of BSB is that it is made in such a way to maximize the color at the expense of behavior. Given that, it is by definition and ink that you can't really replicate as a 'well behaved" ink, which is probably why you don't see such a color offered by anyone else. Nathan, who created BSB, has himself stated that BSB is, in some sense, a giant middle finger to other, more conservative, ink companies. 

 

Since your entire metric/baseline is based off of BSB, I strongly recommend that you give Liberty's Elysium a try. It was formulated precisely as a more "well-behaved BSB" in which some of the color was given up in order to gain a bit in permanence and other better performance characteristics. It's the next best thing to BSB. I'd also strongly suggest that if you want to test the ink and get a good feel for it, a dip pen will only tell you so much, and using it on porous paper that isn't fountain pen friendly will *greatly* restrict your ink selections. 

 

If you insist that only a dip pen and porous paper will be a suitable test (maybe you have a very wet pen and you only use porous paper), then the answer is even easier, because you simply won't find a well-behaved, over-saturated ink that will work with that combination, or if you do, you are likely going to have to suffer in some other behavior dimension with the pen. IG inks will come closest, but you won't get the color you want. Good, traditional inks will be safer and give you the behavior you want, but not the color. Inks by Waterman, Sheaffer, Pelikan, Lamy, and Parker will be well-behaved, as will the standard dye-based line from Pilot, Platinum, and Sailor, but none of those is going to give you a super saturated blue ink, because you're at cross-purposes. *Maybe* there might be something in the Jacques Herbin line and Maybe in the Noodler's line, and Maybe in one of the many Sailor colors, and maybe one of the pigmented inks from Sailor, De Atramantis, Montblanc, Monteverde, or others, but otherwise, I think you've defined your solution space so as to be empty. I don't think you're going to find anything that actually satisfies all your criteria that you've set out, so it's probably more useful at this point to figure out what you're willing to give up on or what is least important to you. 

[Inky.Fingers]

@arcfide Thank you for the advices.  Such a brilliant idea.  BSB is a nice color and it's not the color of choice for me.  BSB comes closest to what I search for.  As for paper, it is really whatever I have or given.  The paper chosen was smooth and friendly to most of the inks by major manufacturers (subjectively by yours truly.). 

 

Ink additive as water, by dilution had not helped with BSB.  Adding gum Arabic with dilution had helped a bit.  I am currently increasing gum of Arabic in the same BSB for tests.

 

The actual color of choice that I really like to obtain is Ultra-marine (or as you might know from the pigment ground from the stone lapis lazuli.). 

 

I am also experimenting with making my own pigmented ink Ultra-marine.  Thus far, a small pigment flour of 1-10microns adding to saturation in the medium of gum Arabic had produced a color similar to BSB but better looking when seen with the eyes (subjectively by yours truly).  Unfortunately, the concoction resulted in a very fouled small when left alone for three days (cabbage).

 

I am looking for a water soluble biocide to be used to prevent the fouled smell.

 

PVA polyvinyl alcohol is on order, to test if I can increase the saturation of the pigments.  I hope that it can be fountain pen friendly someday.  For now, its just fun and games.

 

As for other ink ideas..I like to put your suggestion on hold.  Perhaps, it is a better and more easy solution of buy what can come close of Ultra-marine .... If one can write with the color of choice ... That would be even better.

[arcfide]

@Inky.Fingers I'm really confused, are you trying to get a dip pen ink or a fountain pen ink? Those two are not the same. Can you please succinctly state the goal here and what you're asking in a single post? Your actions say you're looking for a dip pen ink and aren't interested in any ink suggestions, but your questions suggest that you're looking for a fountain pen ink and are asking for suggestions. Which is it? 

[Inky.Fingers]

I blame it on COVID... I am not looking for any more inks at the moment.

 

Thanks!

[arcfide]

3 hours ago, Inky.Fingers said:

I blame it on COVID... I am not looking for any more inks at the moment.

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks for the clarification! Do please keep posting scans of your experiments. They're quite fun to look at, and I think others will be interested in what you finally land on as your color, as most people aren't after "shadeless" colors like that, so there aren't as many examples of good testing around it. 

[Inky.Fingers]

Such an improvement ... 

 

Adding Gum of Arabic incrementally.  I can finally use BSB.  A bit of shading.

Then again a bit of shading on any ink one chooses to use. 

 

However, this ink is not FP safe.  It will clog up your pen before you know it.  Can't do anything about the staining either.

 

The search continues after I have used up the bottle of BSB.

 

Before & After