How to Communicate With a Nibmeister.

[Mrsnuffles]

Hello, everyone! I have a Sailor 1911L with a broad nib that I'd like to have tuned by a nibmeister; the goal is for it to write wetter and more smoothly. This will be my first time working with a nibmeister. How do I get across the idea of how I want it to write?

[langere]

You can tell them just what you said.  Many also use a numerical system to signal how wet the nib should be.

It was better when you could actually meet with the nibmeister at a meeting and try out the pen immediately after he/she had tinkered with it.

 

Erick

[Mrsnuffles]

Thanks for the reply, Iangere! What about comparing it to other pens? For example, saying that I want it to write about as wet as a Pilot Custom 823 in Medium, but ideally a little smoother?

[Paul-in-SF]

Not affiliated in any way, and there may be others that do this, but Mark Bacas at nibgrinder.com has an extensive questionnaire (that is optional) and an opportunity for you to send him a video of how you write (i.e. how the pen sits in your hand, how your hand moves, etc.). His is the most thorough along those lines that I have experienced, but I don't think that approach is unique to him. 

 

I think it might be difficult to compare to other pens, because specific instances of other pens will vary and that variance can be along a fairly broad range. Unless you have a pen that you want him to imitate, in which case you would probably have to send both pens. 

[Pjake]

I completely agree with application of a numerical scale.  I am doing this now on a Visconti HS with my shop.  

In terms of wetness, I do not want a "gusher" (9, 10) on the scale; I'm looking for a nib on the reasonably wet side (6, 7)

In terms of feedback, I am asking for moderate feedback (4, maybe a 5).  My Pilot 823 is VERY smooth..probably a 1 or 2 on the 1-10 scale.  My Aurora Optima back in the 00's I believed to be a 7.  Looking for something right in the middle.

 

I would be interested to hear other thoughts.

 

Peter

[Driften]

One nice thing is after you have worked with one you can say "Set up this pen like you did the last one." Or reference how they did the last one, in your new setup.

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, Mrsnuffles said:

How do I get across the idea of how I want it to write?

 

Either use (as close as possible to) an objective scale for each attribute, e.g. “line width from vertical strokes is 0.28mm–0.34mm,” so that you can be sure there's a common understanding between you and the nibmeister that is not premised on your subjective experience, or give him/her a concrete representation of your subjective frame of reference. “A Pilot Custom 823 in Medium” is neither objective — since you're probably thinking of it as an experience you had as opposed to Pilot's technical specifications for such, to which the particular unit you used may or may not actually conform — nor concrete; but, since you're sending a pen (and probably writing samples done with it) to the nibmeister, the as-is performance of that pen is the concrete representation that he/she can inspect and to which to calibrate.

[corniche]

Hello MrSnuffles,

 

I think SmugDill gave a pretty good reference point on line width.

 

As far as conveying the wetness you want; you could select a pen you have that best replicates your preferred wetness and fill it with a dead common ink, (something every nibsmith would have - like Waterman Serenity Blue); and then use a dead common paper, like a Rhodia dot pad. 

 

Write a few words and time it to see how long it takes to dry - then tell the nibsmith this is the degree of wetness I'm looking for.  That should give the guy a pretty good, general idea of the wetness you're looking for. 

 

- Sean  

[Mrsnuffles]

Wow, all this great advice! Thank you so much, everybody! Now I know what to do, and I'm a lot more confident in sending my pen in for work. 😄

Edited February 26, 2021 by Mrsnuffles

[agentdaffy007]

I sent my pen to Mark Bacas at nibgrinder.com

 

Him and Lisa are a pleasure to deal with. He took his time to take a short video of how the pen writes. Answers promptly emails. Also, he has this form with 20 questions or so about how you want the nib to be. All in all, it is a great experience. Can't wait to get my pen back!!

[loganrah]

You should probably check if they are OK with it first, but if you have one how about sending a cheap pen you like the performance of along with the pen to be adjusted. Then they can compare in hand, so to speak. 

 

I guess you could send a more expensive pen if you are willing to risk it or get insurance, but something you wouldn't be too annoyed to lose is probably the best option.

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, loganrah said:

Then they can compare in hand, so to speak.

 

That's a great idea, although it's premised on the customer already having a pen that wrote (out-of-the-box?) exactly the way in which he/she wants the target of the nib work to do. For some pen owners, they may have never managed to buy a pen that fully satisfied in terms of writing characteristics and performance; for others, they may already have a pen they're very happy with, but don't actually want to ‘waste’ a second pen on making it deliver exactly the same user experience or outcome, but simply wants its nib to write differently.

[sandy101]

Sacrifice three goats at the temple of Diamine and leave your pen on the shrine of His Nibs overnight  

[Mrsnuffles]

You mean that sending a pen to a nibmeister to be tuned and polished can ruin it forever if it doesn't turn out the way I like? 

[ENewton]

42 minutes ago, Mrsnuffles said:

You mean that sending a pen to a nibmeister to be tuned and polished can ruin it forever if it doesn't turn out the way I like? 

 

There are a few senses in which the pen could be "ruined forever," from your perspective or someone else's:

• The nibmeister could do a poor job.  This problem is probably easy to avoid if you work with a well regarded nibmeister.
• The nibmeister could be very skilled, but if you happened not to like the outcome--if the nibmeister interpreted your instructions in a way that caused him or her to "go too far"--the modification might not be reversible.  For example, tipping that is removed to make the pen write more smoothly cannot be restored, and it is easier to make a pen wetter than to make it drier.
• Your Sailor pen will no longer write like a Sailor pen.  If you have the nib modified to be very, very smooth, and if at some time in the future you decide to sell or swap the pen, it might not meet with the other party's expectations, because one would not expect a Sailor nib to be very, very smooth.  From my own perspective as a fan of Sailor nibs, I would consider such a pen to have been ruined.

  

[Karmachanic]

If you want a smooth (Japanese) nib buy a Pilot.

[A Smug Dill]

21 hours ago, Mrsnuffles said:

You mean that sending a pen to a nibmeister to be tuned and polished can ruin it forever if it doesn't turn out the way I like?

 

You ought to always go in with the assumptions that:

1. the amount you spent on the nibmeister's charges for his/her work, as well as shipping, insurance and what-not, is gone and not recoverable even if you don't like the outcome; and
2. alterations done to a nib in accordance with your instructions are irreversible even if you don't like the outcome; at best you can ask (and most likely, pay) for more irreversible work to be done to mitigate the effects of the previous lot of alterations. Making a nib write (too) smoothly, and then deciding to do more work to add some kinaesthetic feedback back, simply cannot make it the same Sailor nib as it was before.

If the alterations turn out to make you like writing with the pen better, that's great! They have increased the value of the pen to you, in return for what you've spent on it additionally to the initial purchase price. However, it doesn't follow that anyone else will find the pen more valuable, should you eventually gift it or (try to) sell it to them, than if the nib was unaltered in character.

[Mrsnuffles]

Well this is concerning news! It would probably be safer to sell it and buy another Pilot.

[Karmachanic]

If you want your Sailor to write like a Pilot, say that to your grinder of choice,  and accept what's done.  You'll have a new experience.

 

Not knowing how long you've had the pen, nor your fountain pen experience, I offer this:

I have learned to spend time with a pen before making any changes.  Getting used to it.  Learning how it wants to be held.  Posted, or not.  Does it prefer a little, or no pressure?  Trying it on different papers. Patiently learning it's character, rather than demanding it perform to my expectation/wishes. This can be a broadening and rewarding experience.  "Difficult" people can become good friends.  Same with nibs.

 

If, after a few weeks, we're still not getting along, I'll either slowly adjust it myself, or send it to see a nib Dr.  I've been known to adjust the nib Dr's adjustments.  Or, if it's vintage, sell it as is.

 

Making the nib wetter is easily done in under a minute.

 

 

[como]

I think a general direction of wetness, smoothness and width is enough. Unless someone has exquisitely beautiful professional level calligraphy skills, it's embarrassing to ask for too much details of nib grinding specs while having chicken scratch handwritings. It's like asking for a totally custom made set of golf clubs while having a handicap of 36. 😏