Cone-shaped mystery - Usage, manufacturer, place to find?

[Rawrik]

Hello there,

Took an interesting hobby to hoard weird, unusual, peculiar nibs to find new means of calligraphy.

Recently, I've bought a whole little box stuffed with old nibs in antiques in Prague and I encountered this little guys.
I can't really identify them, no matter how my english description is plaguing Uncle Google.
This nibs?/cones?/resevoirs? whatever isn't working anymore, but apparently you drip some ink in it and the stick in the end of cone will let ink down by pressing it
against papper (hence the spring). That's just so much to my reverse engineering.
I tried to let it stay in warm water to clean content in it, solve the rust away in vinegar and brush it of in baking soda. None of it make it better.
I'm looking forward to buy a new one, but there is nothing like brand or signature of manufacturer, which would hint its origin.

So I figured out that you, guys, may help me.

Tried to find it here for what felt like hours, so I submit this thread (after I sign up to this amazing community!).
It may be regular model of some stationary tool I didn't know about, or some rare oddity not really used in any time.

tags I used in forum, google: cone, funnel, nib cone-shaped, unusual nibs, calligraphy dip cone type, so on.. (I really tried)

Value every opinion.


  (mobile photos, bad quality :(( )
 




 

[ParramattaPaul]

I have no real idea what they might be for or even if they are pen related.  That they were with nibs may not mean they are pen parts.  They could have been put there simply because there was nowhere else to put them.

 

My only suggestion is to look for any markings they may have and then use the markings to search for what they may be.

 

[Mr.Rene]

Cocaine sniffer ? 😄🤷‍♂️

[cellopen]

If the thing sticking out of the end of the cone is silver, the holder may be for silverpoint art. I know that there is calligraphy rendered in silverpoint.

 

Silverpoint uses prepared paper. A silver rod or wire drawn across the paper makes a beautiful line. There is some stunning art using the technique.

[Rawrik]

31 minutes ago, ParramattaPaul said:

I have no real idea what they might be for or even if they are pen related.  That they were with nibs may not mean they are pen parts.  They could have been put there simply because there was nowhere else to put them.

 

My only suggestion is to look for any markings they may have and then use the markings to search for what they may be.

 

Yep, I looked up a whole internet, but only informations minted in a surface is a number of a set/particular size it belongs to. No any other markings. 
The content and in situ really points to something calligraphy related. When I was trying to restore it, it flushed out millenia of what looked like ink, also it was in box with other nibs for dip pen. Old Brauses, Redos andrawing pens.
Looked years of them, so I could find time frame, but with no avail. 
Still, thanks a lot


 

[OCArt]

Do you think they could be used to draw with molten wax for batik? 

 

 

[Rawrik]

12 minutes ago, OCArt said:

Do you think they could be used to draw with molten wax for batik? 

 

 

Ah yes, there is a quite resemblance. I even found encaustic tool shaped similar way. But for I understand from my way art lessons, this nib may be too small for a constantly hardening wax to go thru, tho I may be wrong.
I'm still being lead to the belief that it's for ink calligraphy, but i'm left blind. 
Thanks for interesting post :))


 

[Rawrik]

30 minutes ago, cellopen said:

If the thing sticking out of the end of the cone is silver, the holder may be for silverpoint art. I know that there is calligraphy rendered in silverpoint.

 

Silverpoint uses prepared paper. A silver rod or wire drawn across the paper makes a beautiful line. There is some stunning art using the technique.

I just tried to make a line with every cone, but with no result. Don't know if I should try restore the piece somehow to prove your theory, but why it would need a spring? 
Hmm. It seem that I found myself a real rarity :DD
 

[Rawrik]

GREAT DISCOVERY WAS MADE
-----


So it wasn't that big oddity as I though! No seymour triple ruling pen nib class here :DD

I used my long forgotten german and looked up same words as I did in english. And voilà! 

It's literally funnel pen. Nobody in anglo-saxon world knows about it, but germans! They sure do!
It's not that common tho these days. 
Standartgraph was making one of these years ago and they are occasionally sold by very specific manufacturers.

Their pros are that they can have more variety of liquid stuffed in them (as I'm now reading about goldwriting link: https://us.dbaoriginals.com/products/supplies/gold-funnel-pen/)
 This what i've learnt about it now! Wow!
 

[fabri00]

They are a kind of rapidograph.

Used by architects and surveyors to draw lines using Indian ink.

[Rawrik]

Fabri00: Do you have any idea where can I get those except antiques and old bookshops?
Sadly that mines are rusted to hell.

[carola]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichterfeder

 

No English page though...

 

I´ll venture a translation:

 

A funnel nib is a drawing instrument used for drawing consistently broad lines with tusche/Indian ink. It is a precursor of a technical pen (like a Rapidograph).

 

Setup:

The funnel pen consists of a funnel shaped metal container with a screw cap from where the ink may flow through a small tube. There are nibs with tubes of varying diameter to produce lines of corresponding width. To produce consistent ink flow, in the tube there is a thin wire made from spring steel, movably mounted with a pressure spring. With this wire, blockages in the tube can be removed and cleaned off. After doing so, the spring withdraws the wire back into the tube so as not to scratch the surface of the paper when writing.

 

Usage:

The funnel nib only writes nicely when held vertically. To achieve this, the funnel nib is clamped to a mount with two adjustable metal jaws. With the rod shaped mount the funnel nib can be used like a pencil.

 

The funnel nib is a precursor of the modern technical pen. It was used for the lettering on official maps with a lettering stencil and for technical drawings, where the font width is regulated.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

The part about the fountain pen version in this article might relate to the Trichterfedern:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen

[ParramattaPaul]

4 hours ago, Rawrik said:

GREAT DISCOVERY WAS MADE
-----


So it wasn't that big oddity as I though! No seymour triple ruling pen nib class here :DD

I used my long forgotten german and looked up same words as I did in english. And voilà! 

It's literally funnel pen. Nobody in anglo-saxon world knows about it, but germans! They sure do!
It's not that common tho these days. 
Standartgraph was making one of these years ago and they are occasionally sold by very specific manufacturers.

Their pros are that they can have more variety of liquid stuffed in them (as I'm now reading about goldwriting link: https://us.dbaoriginals.com/products/supplies/gold-funnel-pen/)
 This what i've learnt about it now! Wow!
 

Well done. Great detective work!

[fabri00]

7 hours ago, Rawrik said:

Fabri00: Do you have any idea where can I get those except antiques and old bookshops?
Sadly that mines are rusted to hell.

 

No idea: as they were technical tools, the diffusion was much less than fountain pen.

From time to time they appear on flea market or in ebay.

When I went to high school where we did also few hours a week of technical design, at end of the 70's early 80' s we used those from Rotring and they were much modern than the ones you got.

[cellopen]

Very cool. I am happy the mystery is solved!

[txomsy]

2 hours ago, fabri00 said:

 

No idea: as they were technical tools, the diffusion was much less than fountain pen.

From time to time they appear on flea market or in ebay.

When I went to high school where we did also few hours a week of technical design, at end of the 70's early 80' s we used those from Rotring and they were much modern than the ones you got.

Lucky you. We were forbidden those and were forced to use ruling pens for all technical design.

[Larry Barrieau]

A lot like Leroy lettering set like I used in college.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRvQDMBEOE

[Steveg58]

They are also very similar to kistka's https://ukrainianeggcessories.com/collections/candle-heated-kistka

A kind of funnel nib used to apply wax resist when dying Easter eggs (not the chocolate kind).

[AAAndrew]

Very cool. These were obviously designed to go into a regular dip pen holder. Thanks for sharing!

[inkstainedruth]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:19 AM, Rawrik said:

Ah yes, there is a quite resemblance. I even found encaustic tool shaped similar way. But for I understand from my way art lessons, this nib may be too small for a constantly hardening wax to go thru, tho I may be wrong.
I'm still being lead to the belief that it's for ink calligraphy, but i'm left blind. 
Thanks for interesting post :))


 

I took a workshop in pysanky a couple of years ago (that's the technique for the really elaborate Ukrainian Easter eggs) that a friend ran at her house.  And yeah, some of those designs are done with VERY fine tips.  So I can well believe that that the tips in the photo are for that (or for batik, which is the same idea -- wax resist designs only on fabric).  Yes, the wax will harden, but you just reheat the tip to remelt the wax if that happens.

Ah, I see that Steveg58 beat me to the punch.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: My other thought that they might have been an early form of Rapidograph/stylograph -- and again someone else beat me to the punch....  

@txomsy -- I feel your pain.  I have bad memories of the "Graphic Delineation" class I took in college -- doing isometric projections -- and how much $$ I spent on those 11x17 pads of paper because the assignments were supposed to be PERFECT before they were turned in.  I barely passed the class with a C, and was REALLY PO'd at the two guys in my class who used Rapidographs (and even bragged about it to me) and got A's because the professor didn't notice/couldn't tell the difference.  

And I've NEVER touched the ruling pen attachment on a drafting compass set since....