Is this Parker 51 a Medium or a Broad? Or something else?

[Aelia]

Hi folks, I got this Parker 51 from Ebay for a total of $70 including shipping. I'm trying to figure out of the nib is a medium or a broad. The pen is Made in England. If it's a Medium, it's quite a bit broader than my Made in England Parker 45 medium nib. What do you folks think? I am writing on Mnemosyne paper. Thanks! 

The nib says "14K" "585" "Parker" "Made in England" and I believe that's about it. 

I'm interested because I never thought I would love a nib that's this broad. It works well for speech outlines because it's easily legible. 

 

[Beechwood]

I would say  a Medium, It also appears to have seen little use.  In fact the entire pen looks exceptional.

 

 

[Aelia]

  On 1/30/2021 at 8:43 AM, Beechwood said:

I would say  a Medium, It also appears to have seen little use.  In fact the entire pen looks exceptional.

 

 

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Yeah I was surprised at how nice this pen is. There is some damage to the matte finish, but no dents. The sac leaked but it was because it detached itself. I had to reattach the sac and that's about it. 

I tuned the reverse side of the nib so that it can write smooth fine lines, like how I normally write. But I found that I love the main side of the nib for speech outlines. I'm really afraid of public speaking, but seeing the giant words on the paper is kind of reassuring. 

[Beechwood]

You did very well on the pen.

 

Personally I would buy another Parker 51 with a fine nib, there are plenty out there, you can never have enough 51s and there is every possibility that they will increase in value.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Warning, you really, really don't need all 51 P-51's..........luckily I never got addicted to them...I have other addiction pens.

 

OK, English made Parker's are softer than the US nails.

I have a English made,  regular flex P-45 and a semi-flex Parker Jr. Doufold. That shocked me, in I only knew of US nail Parkers....semi-nail P-75.

Parker and Shaffer had to make nibs with more flex than they were selling on the US market in Swan was still alive with it's wide span of nib flex.

 

Shaffer did make semi-flex Snorkels, in the US they were somewhat rare. I was after one of them in a fancy President, Admiral or Saratoga, when a pal told me of a semi-flex Snorkel he had. It turned out to be a maxi-semi-flex.....so I found out, I didn't really need super fancy to go with such a nib.

It was a BB factory stubb, maxi-semi-flex Snorkel made in Australia, that also had to compete with Swan.

 

So seeing the different widths you show on your paper; you could be pressing  a regular flex F a bit. No big deal, really. You will get over it.

Or if it feels soft to you, it could be a semi-flex......and if one is not use to semi-flex it is quite easy to spread the tines out to the next width.

It's no big harm if its a rugged semi-flex.

 

When I got my first semi-flex....an OB Pelikan 140.....I was real ham fisted, and was maxing the nib out to it's 3X max often as not. Took me some two or so months for my Hand to lighten up.

Eventually I got my Hand down to Line Variation On Demand......instead of a constant fat line.

Semi-flex is a flair nib, gives you flair with out doing anything............eventually you can demand a fuller  3X line at the end of a paragraph decender for your fancy. Many folks over do it on Ebay and Youtube, thinking it's a (super)FLEX pen, not it's Almost got flex.....a huge difference.

 

It is not a calligraphy nib, so don't push it to try and make it so....that's nib abuse.

[Aelia]

@Bo Bo Olson Really cool to know! The Parker 51 above is a nail. I don't have to use any force at all and it glides over paper as if I were waving the pen in the air, giving me a thick juicy line. 

The thinner text in the middle is written with the reverse side of the same nib. The bottom text is written with a Made in England Parker 45. I think it might be semi flex. It's certainly springier than the Made in USA Parker 45 nib I intended to replace it with. I no longer want to replace the nib because I realize how much I like it. I might do a writing sample later. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Old style ball points were like plowing the south forty with out the mule. Gel pens, like having a mule.

Fountain pens are like the best John Deere.

Don't get sucked into the noobie butter smooth at all costs myth.  Then you can't use slick paper....a tad of feel that was normal in vintage and semi-vintage nibs, the next level under butter smooth is what I want and a few others want in a nib.

Of course I have a few butter smooth pens.

Take your time, the more you read, the more you know, the better more enjoyable pen you get.

 

 

The P-45 is more than likely regular flex like mine...what use to be issued regularly back in the day of silver dollars on many pens.

If yours has a tapering body....the early P-45  is more 'pen' shaped, you have a .....for a Large pen, a pen that balances well posted.

Mine has a rolled gold cap.....and someone's name on the black body.....It don't really matter; offer 10% less when you buy one with a name, sell it for 10% less than 'no-name' pens.

 

Many who have only used nails, think just because a nib bends a little  bit and the tines spread a tiny bit, it is semi-flex. It's not .

 

It's what the Japanese call 'soft' or regular flex, like a Pelikan 200 or semi-vintage 400's from '82-97. Some Esterbrook nibs, some Shaffers and Shaffer sub brands, Wearevers and many other pens. Including Waterman of those eras. My 'new' Waterman Man 100 ('88-90 or so) is regular flex.

Some Shaffers are also nails.....and some very few from the early '50's are semi-flex.

 

A nail has no tine spread at all except once . 1 X width is all you get.

Semi-nail if mashed hard will give you 2 X for that letter.

The following are in a 3X tine spread set.

You have to mash regular flex hard to get out to the max of 3 X a light down stroke. You can not really write anything....with trouble a full letter maxed. The mashing is just to tell you what nib you have.

 

I do like regular flex for two toned shading inks, in they write drier than the wetter semi-flex.....two toned shading inks, need a better paper match to get much shading in semi-flex.(Two toned shading ink sits up on 90g Laser or Laser-Ink-Jet paper so dries at slower rates = two tones. EF don't work well at all with shading inks. 

 

And M is a much better width than the disrespect it gets here on the Com....most noobies going skinny or fat,  ignoring a normal issue M when they start into fountain pens.....I went fat.

 

There are classic rough papers, Laid and Linen effect that do better with a M or a B than with an F.  Yep, sooner or later one has to have either or both.

 

The next two are often found in '50-70 German pens.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure needed to max a regular flex to reach 3X....one can write with it maxed, but you have to develop a lighter Hand. Took me some two months to stop being Ham Fisted, to only a bit heavy handed. Ball Points and Nails often make one Ham Fisted.

 

Maxi-semi-flex takes half the pressure of a semi-flex or 1/4th the pressure needed to max a regular flex. One wants a medium light Hand or better.

And it is luck of the draw to which you will get. I have 15 or so, 40-45 semi-flex so think it's @ a 1in 5 ratio of semi to maxi.

 

Regular flex +, semi-flex ++, maxi-semi-flex +++

 

Superflex (is for another day)

Easy full flex ++++

Wet Noodle +++++

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle  ++++++

Dip pens..............

They vary a lot, but most are so flexible they make a Wet Noodle look uncooked. Some like the Gillette 303 or 404 and a few other, flex sitting up in the pen cup when there is a earthquake in California. 

 

Take your nail P-51 press the nib to to your thumb nail. Do the same with the P-45. You now know the difference between a nail and regular flex.

When I pressed the first semi-flex pen I ever held to my thumb nail. I suddenly knew what the fuss was all about..........then I inked it.

 

 

[Estycollector]

Paper type makes a lot of difference in how a nib performs from my experience. When I write a check, the ledger produces a difference compared to the check paper type. 

 

The Parker is famous because it's ready to write. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

  On 1/31/2021 at 1:04 AM, Estycollector said:

The Parker is famous because it's ready to write. 

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True of the P-51; don't know of the others.

Parker wanted to make an extremely fast drying ink, so made the hidden collector with very, very many combs/rills. The problem was the ink ate other pens, so they had to take it off the market.

So they still had the massive P-51 collector holding lots of ink = ease of start up.

[david-p]

  On 1/30/2021 at 8:55 AM, Aelia said:

I tuned the reverse side of the nib so that it can write smooth fine lines, like how I normally write. But I found that I love the main side of the nib for speech outlines. I'm really afraid of public speaking, but seeing the giant words on the paper is kind of reassuring. 

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Sorry, I am late to find this thread, but have you considered getting a Parker 180, which has a double-sided nib: broad on one side and fine on the other?

 

David

Edited August 12, 2021 by david-p

[sandy101]

It's not so easy to answer.

 

I'm using a medium P51 now, and the nib is behaving like yours. It's the wetness of the pen that's causing it. The pen is putting a lot of ink down, which means the letters are coming out heavier. Different paper can also influence the result. I also have a medium P51 that doesn't write so wide - so I think they're not always consistent. 

 

My Parker 45 are drier pens, and have thinner nibs - so they do not write as wide as P51s.

 

With a drier ink, you might get some narrower lines.