Dating 1960s-1980s Montblanc 149s+Restoration Journey

[vintagefplover]

Decided to start a new topic because the old topic did not have photos. Photos will now show up right at the start of the thread. Enjoy

There will be a comparison between 60s pens and later pens in the lower replies. 

PART 1:

Here is a small evolution of the MB 149 from ~1972-1989

I guess I was just bored and decided to take apart my Montblanc 149s 😛

 

Nibs: Went from bi-colour 18/14C to bi-colour 18/14K

Softness has been significantly reduced after MB switched to the ‘K’ nibs. Old ones display more softness/flexibility.

An interesting marking is to be seen on the back of the 18K dual tone nib. Any information would be appreciated.

 

Feeds: Went from solid ebonite to split ebonite.

The split ebonite is really innovative, when you press on the nib, half of the nib bends with the nib and stays contact, preventing railroading and keeping ink flow good.

Caps:

The font changed 3 times. In the oldest font, diagonal recession lines form the text.

The middle one has fully recessed letters, with further recessed diagonal lines.

The newest one is similar to the middle one but with more rounded corners and similar to modern models.

The derby used to directly be screwed onto the cap top, with a protruding screw at the top. Then it switched to be using a screw to screw on the derby.

Clips:

The marking ‘GERMANY’ seemed to be more precise in the later clips, where it used to be hand-engraved. The design also changed, top of the clip became more squared from the curved design. The protruding part at the bottom of the clip also became more rounded.

 

Piston:

The piston remained the same and it was half plastic with plastic threads. It later was changed to fully brass in later models.

 

Barrel:

They are all single-unit barrels with a small step down below the threads. Dual-unit barrels can also be found in the mid-late 1980's, they have a different end to the section, and the section can screw off. (not in the images)

 

[vintagefplover]

PART 2:

Now, I am going to compare the features of the Montblanc 149 from the 1960's compared to later generations (70s-80s).

In the photo essay, I will be comparing my 60s model to an early 80s pen. I aim to help everyone here to identify 149's more easily by differentiating minute details of the pen, enjoy!

 

Nibs: (right: 60s, left: 70s-80s)

60s models usually have tri-tone 14C and 18C nibs, from my observation, 18C nibs seem more common on these pens. 

The karat/carat marking seems to be larger on earlier nibs from the 60's. 

Later pens are also seen with tri-tone nibs (up to around the mid 70s) then they switched to bi-tone 14/18C. The karat markings seem to have become smaller since the late 1960s. Compare the sizes of the carat markings between the 2 nibs to get an idea of what I am saying. 

Flexibility wise, they are similar. From the many 14C and 18C models from different eras I have handled, flexibility is  really varied, and most pens with 14C/18C nibs seem to have at least a bit of flex. Both of the nibs pictured are quite soft. 

 

Feeds :(left: 60s, right: 70s-80s)

60s models are usually seen with ebonite feeds with grooves cut halfway on the backside. Very early resin models have ebonite feeds with full grooves going along the entire backside of the feed (not pictured). Later pens either have a solid ebonite feed (~1972 onwards, not pictured) and split ebonite feeds (pictured below, ~late 70s onwards) with vertical gap cut in the middle of the feed.  

 

Caps: (60s: left, 70-80s: right)

60s pens seem to have a thinner cap lip compared to later models, which explains why cap lip cracks are more commonly seen in these early resin pens. 

The middle cap ring looks to be thinner and the text looks less deeply engraved with a different in the early pens. Later pens have deeper engravings. 

Very very early resin caps are sometimes marked with 'made in Germany' (correct me if I am wrong) and with breather holes. (not pictured)

The rest of the cap is the same, with the derby screwing to the top of the cap.

 

 

Piston: (60s: right, 70s-80s:left)

The piston mechanism's workings have largely remained the same, but with many changes to the appearance. 

60s pens have the piston friction-fit. The piston is fully made of plastic (except the piston ring) and it is very light. The piston spindle is white instead of black. The piston seal has a larger diameter because of the thinner plastic walls of the barrels. The piston ring is much thinner and rounded on the 60s pens. 

Later pens have a half brass mechanism, and it is screw into the barrel instead of friction-fit. It became much heavier. The piston spindle became black. The piston seal became smaller. The piston ring is much thicker and well machined, and stays flush with the barrel. 

 

Clips: (left: 70s-80s, right: 60s) (top: 70-80s, down: 60s)

The clips are slightly different. They have the same curved top. The markings on the 60s and 70s are mainly the same, marked 'Germany'. Extremely early resin pens have the marking 'made in Germany' (not pictured). The main difference is the protrusion at the end of the clip. The protrusion is more rounded in later pens and the 60s pens seem to have a sharper protrusion. If you do not know what I mean, please compare the pictures. 

 

Barrels: (left: 70s-80s, right: 60s for the photo of the section)

              (left: 60s, right: 70s-80s for the photo of the end of the barrels)

This is the biggest difference other than the pistons. 
60s pens have a really thin barrel wall, as MB probably wanted to maintain the ink capacity enjoyed on the celluloid pens with the telescopic piston into the resin era. This unfortunately has caused the barrel to be quite fragile, and repairs very difficult. 

The inside of the barrel is not threaded on the 60s pens, as the piston is friction-fit. It is threaded on later models to accommodate the threaded piston, the barrel wall is also much thicker. 

Comparing the sections, they are both single-unit barrels. There seems to be a sharp step down below the threads on later barrels, and the 60s models don't seem to have that step down, with the end of the threads starting right at the end of the section.

The collar rim around the end of the section seems to be more sharply moulded on the newer pens, with more pronounced edges. Older pens have a more rounded rim. The nib collars are the same.

 

Pleas enjoy the photos and tell me if there are any errors in my description, thanks! Enjoy. 

 

[vintagefplover]

-1960s Montblanc 149 restoration journey-

 

PART 3:

I bought a 1960s Montblanc 149 off Japanese yahoo and it came in horrible condition. Scratches everywhere, the metal doesn’t even shine. The piston was extremely tight and ink stains were everywhere.

I first soaked the pen in water for an hour to get the ink out of the feed then slowly took it apart. Yikes! The ink was literally sticking to the walls of the collar.

 

I used baby wipes to clean them, then I carefully pulled out the piston. The piston just needed some simple cleaning and lubrication.

 

The method that I used to take out the notoriously annoying friction fit piston was using the long black stick (it is a stylus for those old resistive touch trackpads) in the picture + a thin guitar pick. I used a thin guitar pick to slip it in between the piston ring and the barrel to get a small gap, then i slowly used the stick and pushed the piston out from the nib end. It was extremely difficult and i needed to be really careful. In the end, I did not break the barrel or the piston, phew!

 

Then I cleaned out all the ink from the barrel, feed, collar, cap and metal areas, then gave them a good polish. I was unfortunately unable to get the ink window clean again.

Photos of after the restoration are at the end.

After a full day of restoration, the pen is now in beautiful working order.

Please enjoy the photos

[niksch]

Thank you for this post.  My similar post from the late 1990s has been lost it seems.  I do have some comments, but I will post them on the next snowy day in Colorado.

 

[maclink]

Thank you vintagefplover.  I really enjoyed those posts.  Fascinating.  Have you ever wondered how much of the details, especially with the lettering, may be down to use and wear?  Additionally, the finer points of the tipping of the clip end (the protrusion at the end of the clip, could that be just manufacturing tolerances where the clip maker is not being too concerned about precision of the contour, especially the part that's not so visible?

 

Your pen restoration efforts were also great and inspiring to see.  Not anywhere nearly as brave enough.  How did you get to that level?  Not with MB pens??

[zaddick]

A few additions:

 

MADE IN GERMANY was indeed heat stamped on some very early resin caps. In addition, there are some early clips with this stamped also instead of just GERMANY.

 

The ink capacity of the friction fit pens I s a little higher due to the thinner walls. Modern MB 149s have the same capacity as the 146.

 

Early 1960s 149 ink with dows can show some internal fractures that are not causing leaks. This is a result of how the early resin barrels were cast that created some instability in the clear resin.

 

The engraving around the cap bands shows a few variations over the 1960s such as the location of the umlaut, if there is a "." after the No in No 149, and the A in Montblanc.

 

Though not expressly stated, the balance of the 1960s 149 is closer to the nib due to the lighter piston. 

 

Easier 149 nib widths tend to be a little narrower than modern nibs. This is more of my opinion based on many observations.

[lionelc]

thank you vintagefplover for sharing - excellent pictures.

[mizgeorge]

Excellent! Nice to see with photos embedded - and you've done a great job with that restoration

[gyasko]

  On 1/17/2021 at 3:56 AM, zaddick said:

A few additions:

 

MADE IN GERMANY was indeed heat stamped on some very early resin caps. In addition, there are some early clips with this stamped also instead of just GERMANY.

 

The ink capacity of the friction fit pens I s a little higher due to the thinner walls. Modern MB 149s have the same capacity as the 146.

 

Early 1960s 149 ink with dows can show some internal fractures that are not causing leaks. This is a result of how the early resin barrels were cast that created some instability in the clear resin.

 

The engraving around the cap bands shows a few variations over the 1960s such as the location of the umlaut, if there is a "." after the No in No 149, and the A in Montblanc.

 

Though not expressly stated, the balance of the 1960s 149 is closer to the nib due to the lighter piston. 

 

Easier 149 nib widths tend to be a little narrower than modern nibs. This is more of my opinion based on many observations.

Expand  

It is also my experience that earlier nib widths are narrower.  

 

I rather like the 1960s 149s for  their lighter weight. 

[niksch]

The lighter weight is obviously because the '60s 149s do not have a piston mechanism of brass components. The brass threaded mechanism (and there were at least three iterations) required a thicker barrel wall.  Because the early to mid  '60s 149s (and a few 146s) had a friction fit piston mechanism, the barrel walls were thinner and the balance was weighted toward the nib.  I'm sure the MB design engineers accounted for this when they introduced the threaded piston mechanism in the 149.

 

[vintagefplover]

Thank you Zaddick for your very useful additions to the thread. I have also noticed the same thing with the older nib widths, I usually use and buy EF nibs and the older pens have narrow nibs. Many also display architect characteristics.