KWZ IG Blue-black and R&K Salix fading and aging...and other blues.

[yazeh]

Do you want me to post it here or on another thread?

[Dimy]

38 minutes ago, yazeh said:

Do you want me to post it here or on another thread?

Na just a verbal result when done would be enough, no need to go extra mile for something like this.

[yazeh]

22 minutes ago, Dimy said:

Na just a verbal result when done would be enough, no need to go extra mile for something like this.

Ok

[RJS]

I happened to be looking at some historical documents today, relating to a house my family owned for about 350 years (foolishly sold in 1992). In particular, notes regarding land sales (and associated disputes) in 1901 and 1961, written by my great-grandfather and grandfather, both in blue ink (they look somewhere between royal blue and Platinum Blue Black), which appear as fresh as if I'd written them myself last week (the paper on the other hand, had yellowed and split at the folds). Which brings me to my point- how the heck do modern inks manage to fade away from light? 😅 What's changed in their chemical composition?

 

Edit: None of the older paperwork was relevant today, but a quick glance suggested nothing had faded terribly, though all pre-1900 documents are in black/grey, no colours visible.

[PithyProlix]

8 hours ago, RJS said:

I happened to be looking at some historical documents today, relating to a house my family owned for about 350 years (foolishly sold in 1992). In particular, notes regarding land sales (and associated disputes) in 1901 and 1961, written by my great-grandfather and grandfather, both in blue ink (they look somewhere between royal blue and Platinum Blue Black), which appear as fresh as if I'd written them myself last week (the paper on the other hand, had yellowed and split at the folds). Which brings me to my point- how the heck do modern inks manage to fade away from light? 😅 What's changed in their chemical composition?

 

Edit: None of the older paperwork was relevant today, but a quick glance suggested nothing had faded terribly, though all pre-1900 documents are in black/grey, no colours visible.

 

Unfortunately I haven't paid much attention to the history of fountain pen ink. I wonder what blue inks were in common use circa 1901, e.g. manufacturers? 

[Dimy]

8 hours ago, RJS said:

I happened to be looking at some historical documents today, relating to a house my family owned for about 350 years (foolishly sold in 1992). In particular, notes regarding land sales (and associated disputes) in 1901 and 1961, written by my great-grandfather and grandfather, both in blue ink (they look somewhere between royal blue and Platinum Blue Black), which appear as fresh as if I'd written them myself last week (the paper on the other hand, had yellowed and split at the folds). Which brings me to my point- how the heck do modern inks manage to fade away from light? 😅 What's changed in their chemical composition?

 

Edit: None of the older paperwork was relevant today, but a quick glance suggested nothing had faded terribly, though all pre-1900 documents are in black/grey, no colours visible.

 

The general idea among community is the fact that modern IG inks have less IG content in them to make them safer for FP. Then is change in paper which might play some role (not much of knowledge here on this regard).

 

As for fading in general, the dye inks and most other non pigment inks don't fade when kept just normally (exceptions are there no doubt), direct sunlight is bad for any inks and will fade them eventually, but otherwise normal inks won't just fade (I had camlin inks writes which did not fade in over decade) same for other inks. Pigment ones don't fade so there is that.

 

As for old records my parents marksheet where signature were done show lightness compared to earlier (according to father) so there seems to have some change, far from being called faded though, the document pretty much has outlived its utility and it was not really a permanent ink if I am not mistaken (can't confirm personally). In general inks don't really fade just in paper by being there.

 

The reason I bothered was because the way sallix behaved bringing me to raise some eyebrows over IG as it was my first IG (I have some bad experience with it and wanted to test it sincerely) plus the fact that if page matters and climate role to an extent (considering the variation in weather in my place).

[thorn]

11 hours ago, RJS said:

I happened to be looking at some historical documents today, relating to a house my family owned for about 350 years (foolishly sold in 1992). In particular, notes regarding land sales (and associated disputes) in 1901 and 1961, written by my great-grandfather and grandfather, both in blue ink (they look somewhere between royal blue and Platinum Blue Black), which appear as fresh as if I'd written them myself last week (the paper on the other hand, had yellowed and split at the folds). Which brings me to my point- how the heck do modern inks manage to fade away from light? 😅 What's changed in their chemical composition?

 

Edit: None of the older paperwork was relevant today, but a quick glance suggested nothing had faded terribly, though all pre-1900 documents are in black/grey, no colours visible.

 

 

I wonder if some of the older dyes were carcinogenic/toxic and production was stopped?

 

Maybe the newer dyes are less carcinogenic/toxic but fade more.

 

There are some patents on inks going back to the early 1900s if you search Google. Some of them show what dyes they used. It would be interesting to see what they are and if they are still in production.

 

[arcfide]

Don't forget about survivorship bias. Research and books on the subject of ink show that even at the turn of the 20th century there were people researching the longevity of inks and there were inks that were used which were not considered suitable for long term records. Also remember that dip pens were still very popular and used quite often in record offices. This afforded the use of well established, archival inks. If you hunt around for old letters written casually amongst friends at the time you can find plenty of examples where the ink has faded, since less archival inks were more likely to be permitted socially in those cases. 

 

As many have noted, the proper storage of documents will do much to extend the life of the ink. Fading is, was, and will continue to be a concern for long term preservation, but that doesn't mean that your inks are going to suddenly disappear on you while you wait. I think people often get scared about fading without understanding the timescales involved or the differences between documents in archival storage conditions and those left out for display. 

 

I personally do not think that the modern dye inks that we have are on the whole more susceptible to fading than past dye inks, but we have more of them, and that means that there are more total numbers of inks, both permanent and not. You just did not have that many choices in the past. We have many more permanent inks now than we did. Many of the highly saturated inks we have now are plenty permanent, but would not have been considered good inks in the past. We also use ink resistant paper like Tomoe River more often, which doesn't help the ink to last any, except that it will not crumble to dust like past papers. In fact, I am inclined to think that we are in a much better place now w.r.t. long term documents written with a fountain pen now than we were back then. 

[yazeh]

@ RJS iThanks for sharing the history. I was wondering if the blue ink was waterproof or not at all?

 

[Dimy]

Another month, another results. No appreciable difference in any results from last ones. Seeing some quirky traits but needs more time to see the changes. 

 

I have also decided to make this as one date, pics of texts were taken on 8th as it should, while swabs have been taken on 15th, so no problem in keeping the dates.

 

Do tell if someone has some points all ears here.

 

 

JK Cedar 100 GSM paper.

 

Nightingale 70GSM paper.

 

Spectra 75GSM office paper.

 

Navneet yuvaa Paper.

 

Classmate 50GSM paper.

 

Swabs results. Taken on 15th.

[amberleadavis]

Thank you for sharing!