KWZ IG Blue-black and R&K Salix fading and aging...and other blues.

[Dimy]

Disclaimer first: This test does not focus on fading under direct sun or UV exposure, it focuses on normal change in color that will be observed on these inks in what I assume is how most keep their work. Also I will try to keep things as consistent as I can but some variations may occur during the span of testing. I will try to update on any key variations other then weather outside.

 

Storing and approach taken (inputs appreciated)

The way the pages will be kept will be as follows : the pages will be kept in closed notebooks and will be used from time to time to see or check for color or such changes, the notebooks themselves will be kept outside the wardrobe in a well lit room. The works will mostly be closed for the test period otherwise. The results will be posted every month to see the change on all papers, point being to observe if page type will lead to any significant change.

 

Any new ideas for the keeping of pages and such are welcomed and appreciated as it is long term test.

 

Introduction and Idea

 

The idea comes from general fading of IG inks and the way it becomes worry for obvious reasons. The subjects under analysis are KWZ IG Blue-black (the ink also is subject to more thorough analysis in other test, pls refer to ink review for that one) and other being R&K Salix as said in intro. The R&K Salix is not being analyzed the same way here as KWZ IG mostly due to net result being known, but the inks performance variation on different papers is not known so the test still serves some purpose (for me at least). Now the net result will also be published and matched along with other test result if someone wants to see them, else not much point as inks analysis is being done anyway.

 

inks nature ( a personal take here on how each write)

 

• KWZ IG blue-black - A wet ink in all sense, minor bleed on cheap papers and no feathering seen. Very high water resistance.
• R&K Salix - Dry ink. Flow sees no issues, no hard starts or skipping seen during writing despite being dry ink. Works on all papers and shows no bleed or feathering on any paper. Pretty much water proof and sees no sign of even discoloring.
• Krishna Paakezah - Balanced flow ink, no skips or hard starts seen, no bleed or feathering on normal papers.
• Waterman Serenity blue - Balanced flow ink, no skips, hard starts. no bleed or feathering on normal papers. Some have noted bleed on very cheap papers and that is the case.
• Pilot Iroshizuku Shin-kai - Balanced flow, tending to wet. No bleed or feathering on papers. No skips or hard starts. The ink shows some feedback of nib and gives pencil like effect in nibs I tested, its very nice feeling when writing.

 

Pens used

 

 

the pens in order from left to right along with their respective characteristics rough idea

 

• Platinum preppy 'fine nib' - Writes dry, no skips and such just dry (some tuning was done to get such result thus statement of tuned in writing). Ink here is KWZ IG blue-black.
• Wality 69 EB Fine nib- Writes balanced and is and ED pen. Ink here is Krishna Paakezah.
• Oliver Exam demonstrator, Kanwrite FIne nib - writes wet. Ink used is R&K Salix.
• Camlin Trinity Fine nib- Feed modded for very wet flow. Ink used is KWZ IG Blue-black
• Ranga Slim Bamboo, Ranga Fine nib- 3in 1 using convertor in this test. Writes Balanced with tending to wet. Ink used is Pilot Iroshizuku shin-kai.
• Kanwrite Heritage, Fine Flex nib- Piston filler. Writes wet. Ink used in Waterman Serenity Blue.

 

Intent behind using a dry and wet pen for KWZ ink is to create some level field for testing as direct comparison R&K Salix runs dry even on wettest of pens, the test aims to see what happens if ink on paper is reduced by significant margin and what happens if a wet ink is given a very wet pen, and if same ink is given dry pen. R&K Salix, being a dry ink as it is, I feel will yield poor result on dry pens in terms of ink quantity on dry nibs, I have not tested the ink on dry nibs and I won't either as chances of poor results in long term testing are feared, making idea of aging redundant.

 

Papers used (and their respective nature)

 

From poorest performing paper to best (pages from Nightingale are in no particular order as they all are good in their own way, my ranking thus comes from my requirement of no bleed or ghosting as top priority over other characteristics) I have or will add withing span of a week. Also companies are good at marketing and skipping important details.....that is to say they in many have not given GSM of notebooks 😠   I will approx for those pages, from what I know about them, corrections are welcome.

 

• Classmate copy register (50 approx GSM)- not FP friendly paper, highly absorbent nature, no sheen or shading seen here....this was really a disappointment considering all the marketing they do....
• Taj White copy register (approx 60 GSM) - OK paper for FP for normal use only. Absorbent in nature, sheen and shade is minimal to absent.
• Nightingale 70 GSM- FP friendly to some extent, its quite smooth to write on, in a way that half decent inks don't bleed here. Absorbent paper and shows, low shading seen and sheen is seen but not much.
• 75GSM A4 spectra (office paper in all honesty) - OKish for ink pens...I guess. Bleed and feathering is not seen for normal inks. Absorbent paper by nature. Sheen is seen, not too high but present and Shade is low....(the result will be added in 2 days or so...I need to buy them, my bundle is finished so will add them later). Results added.
• Navneet youva (approx 60 GSM)- This one surprised me to some extent as I did not expected it to behave properly. Ranks higher for not showing bleed or ghosting on most inks. Still absorbent nature. Sheen is not seen, shade is minimum. It could be near 70 GSM by thickness of paper...they don't mention it so will give benefit of doubt.
• JK Cedar 100 GSM - FP friendly paper to good extent here. No bleed or feathering on any inks I have tested so far. Not too absorbent in nature. Sheen and shade are visible nicely. Its also my personal standard testing and using paper.

 

Most I have are non standard papers so I apologies for that, thus is the reason for adding this section in particular.

If anyone cares among these pages for daily, my recommendation is to go with higher GSM pages of nightingale or Classmate if wanting one of them, the option is there one has to look for it.

 

Test itself

 

All tests in this post are 5 min dry except for JK Cedar which was given 2 hrs to dry. All images are done with pea shooter camera and corrected to as close as possible. Images are quite close to real, not exactly same but close.

 

 

50 GSM Classmate copy test, dry time 5 min. pic taken on 7 jan 2021.

 

 

Taj White 60 GSM approx paper. 5 min dry time. Pic taken on 7 jan 2021

 

Nightingale 70 GSM paper, dry time 5 min. Pic taken on 7 jan 2021.

 

 

Navneet youva, 60 GSM approx, could be 70 GSM. dry time 5 min, Pic taken on 8 jan 2021

 

 

75 GSM Spectra copy paper. Dry time 5 min. Sheen is visible here, not too much but visible nonetheless for shading its still low. Black lines are Platinum carbon black.

 

 

 

JK Cedar 100 GSM. dry time 2 hrs. Pic taken on 7 Jan 2021. Some Niccolo Machiavelli quotes just for fun of it and give some idea of writing (i know my writing is not good but its improving I promise...its now readable from whatever it was before 😅)

 

Whats next and my limitations

 

Apart from office page which I will add this week.

I plan to write some more pages with both ink on JK cedar and keep them the same way I am testing if someone is interested I will do them, else not much of personal interest.

I have never done a swatch sample before but I want to ask if I should add one for at least R&K Salix and KWZ IG Blue-black.....I probably wont do that for others, too much of personal hassle, but 2 main IG should be fine. Do tell if interested.

 

My limitations are quite obvious, I lack any other nib variation apart from fine nibs and EF nibs so thats one main down.

Second is lack of most common FP papers used like tomoe, Rhodia,etc. They are not economical here for me at least and I write a lot so I never bought them personally, I did have some in past but all are used now.

 

Thank you for sticking with this one.

[Tasmith]

Looking forward to the results!

[yazeh]

Looking forward to your test results Dimy. 

If you have flex pen nearby you can use that to create a wider inflection. 

Dip pens can help for other nibs sizes, i.e. if you have any. 

Alternatively, you can take a bamboo stick and trim it to have a very wide nib.

It's fun project if you're so inclined so. 

Or just use a cotton swab

[sgphototn]

Interesting test. Thanks for your work.

 

In my opinion, using a swab such as a Q-Tip to spread ink about is useless if one is using an ink to write with. A swab tells me nothing about how the ink actually looks when coming out the end of a fountain pen. 

 

Far better to write with different nibs from fine to broad and various stubs/italics as those have a greater effect on how an ink looks on paper.

 

Keep up the good work.

[Dimy]

  On 1/11/2021 at 3:05 PM, Tasmith said:

Looking forward to the results!

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Thanks, same goes for me too.

 

  On 1/11/2021 at 3:17 PM, yazeh said:

Looking forward to your test results Dimy. 

If you have flex pen nearby you can use that to create a wider inflection. 

Dip pens can help for other nibs sizes, i.e. if you have any. 

Alternatively, you can take a bamboo stick and trim it to have a very wide nib.

It's fun project if you're so inclined so. 

Or just use a cotton swab

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Thanks for ideas.

I have some flex nibs...3 to be exact...just 2 pens that take them easily..both filled with ink at the moment, will do something when they are empty, this has been a request since KWZ IG review of mine

 

Making what we called reed pens here from bamboo is quite fun, I did that when I was a kid at my village (my parents used them when they were kids, the thing kinda died by the time I was born and even FP died from schools here when I started using pens), not inclined right now but its a fun idea to do again when I am free.

 

I will add the cotton swabs of both IG inks soon...time to make an earbud a scrap goat for greater cause 🙃

 

[Dimy]

  On 1/11/2021 at 3:46 PM, sgphototn said:

Interesting test. Thanks for your work.

 

In my opinion, using a swab such as a Q-Tip to spread ink about is useless if one is using an ink to write with. A swab tells me nothing about how the ink actually looks when coming out the end of a fountain pen. 

 

Far better to write with different nibs from fine to broad and various stubs/italics as those have a greater effect on how an ink looks on paper.

 

Keep up the good work.

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thanks

I agree on front of swabs not being of use when doing test relating to writing, its for this reason that in none of my review will one find a swab sample since I do test for writing only.

I do think that they are not completely out of place as when one does things like drawing they do play quite a good role in such use cases. They are quite good at seeing how ink will behave when spilled around and how it will shade for drawing, all are specific used cases though and yes I too find it impossible to see the actual colour of writing from them.....rarely have they worked for me if at all.

 

Having various nib sizes does show much better reference of colour for ink, that is something I lack due to not having any real use in daily writing (all are done in fine nibs). I am thinking of adding entire written page with R&K Sallix, that should help see the look of entire page over time....just to get an Idea of scale for viewers here.

 

Will do.

[sgphototn]

I agree that swabs can be useful for those that draw/paint with inks. At one time I would swab every new ink I received, but then I realized those swabs were never what I got out of a fountain pen so I stopped.

 

Thanks again for your work. It's always interesting.

 

[sansenri]

  On 1/11/2021 at 5:53 PM, sgphototn said:

I agree that swabs can be useful for those that draw/paint with inks. At one time I would swab every new ink I received, but then I realized those swabs were never what I got out of a fountain pen so I stopped.

 

Thanks again for your work. It's always interesting.

 

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Glad someone is speaking out on this one .

Swabs look ever so nice, and I admit I love looking at all those fantastic colours spreading on the page.

As to usefulness in understanding what ink will look like from actually writing with it, it's close to zero...

 

Nice work, Dimy.

If there is one thing you should try to improve is the record of your results.

The photos show a purplish cast and lighting is not uniform. That is a pity because your hard work would look much better and be more useful in a clear and uniformly lit picture. Perhaps scanning? Or if you wish to stick with photos you really need to set up some better lighting system. Perhaps check the photography threads for inspiration/advice.

[Dimy]

  On 1/11/2021 at 10:28 PM, sansenri said:

Nice work, Dimy.

If there is one thing you should try to improve is the record of your results.

The photos show a purplish cast and lighting is not uniform. That is a pity because your hard work would look much better and be more useful in a clear and uniformly lit picture. Perhaps scanning? Or if you wish to stick with photos you really need to set up some better lighting system. Perhaps check the photography threads for inspiration/advice.

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Thanks

Thanks again for ideas. I agree with you on this front lighting on these were not good (far from it), mostly due to taking the pics at night and running the 5 min timer. I will correct them and try to take pics in daylight. The purple cast is....well my shadow😅

 

I will try to do a scan and will add them along with photo. I tend to avoid the thing due to how gravely inaccurate it scans by default, I think I will need to see some estimate changes that need to be done there. Will do that and post it along with normal photos. hmm might as well try scanning swatch samples first to get some ideas...

 

Thanks again, will see what I can do for this and post the results, swatch one should have better light as it will be done in day lighting plus will scanning them.......now time to slap some life in that old HP scanner......

[Dimy]

Swabs of 5 min dry pics adding here.

The first swan is earbud dip and across the page for both inks

Second set of swabs are done without re dipping the swabs in ink

Third set are again without re dipping of swabs

Last swab set is done where swabs are dipped again.

 

R&K Sallix shows the change in colour in each swabs while KWZ IG does not show any significant change, just shows saturation difference between both, did it to demonstrate that.

 

The colour came quite accurately here, lighting is better then in written samples above thanks to day light presence in room. 5min dry on 100 GSM JK cedar paper.

 

 

whatever is made at end of page. End section of page tends to come a bit dark in my photos due to camera not able to focus on the frame when adjusting white balance and ISO...focus tends to be in middle, still colour of inks are pretty nicely seen. The top 3 swab set are best examples.

[arcfide]

Great to see the different paper test! I think the big question would be to determine what sort of chemicals might have been used in their creation. Are there any fluorescent brighteners? Chlorine? And so forth. 

 

Otherwise, the only thing I could possibly imagine to add to the value of this particular test would be somehow managing to control for temperature/humidity, but I don't think that's realistic. There are reports that older IG inks/historical IG inks have traditionally suffered most in humid climates, so it would be neat to test that, but I don't think it is likely to be feasible. 

[sgphototn]

Dimy,

 

If I may suggest a download https://www.irfanview.com/. This is a simple image viewer programs I've used for at least ten years. 

 

It has many controls for improving images. One such control will be found under the 'Image' heading. Look for 'Color Corrections' sub-heading. Click and you'll see where you can easily make 'white balance'  corrections. 

 

By using this simple adjustment you'll bring the 'whiteness' of the paper back and make your inks color much more true.

 

You'll also see where you can increase the brightness of the image.

 

It's free to use and without spyware or malware.

 

Regards,

Stephen

 

 

[Dimy]

  On 1/12/2021 at 11:26 AM, arcfide said:

Great to see the different paper test! I think the big question would be to determine what sort of chemicals might have been used in their creation. Are there any fluorescent brighteners? Chlorine? And so forth. 

 

Otherwise, the only thing I could possibly imagine to add to the value of this particular test would be somehow managing to control for temperature/humidity, but I don't think that's realistic. There are reports that older IG inks/historical IG inks have traditionally suffered most in humid climates, so it would be neat to test that, but I don't think it is likely to be feasible. 

Expand  

Thanks

Now this was an interesting point I did not consider before, so I looked into these manufactures to get some Idea of their products......how to say market mumbo jumbo that these brands go through....well I will try to keep this a bit interesting and hope you enjoy them as much as I did over tea and flattened rice.

 

All (exception of JK Cedar) of them claim to be eco friendly.......considering all are pretty much made from trees, I don't know much about how eco friendly they really are....well apparently all are chlorine free and that makes them eco friendly to some companies

jokes aside, I know these refer to recycled papers in most if not all cases or FSC certification, I assume its recycled which generally is 'eco friendlier' then chopping the tree off....but they can mention it in simple terms to be honest and not market ECF as eco friendly (won't name them but there were some lot which made it sound such, if looked in hurry).

 

Lets go without further ado for specifics

 

• classmate notebook paper (approx 50 GSM)- this one claims to be "eco friendly", "white and bright paper", nothing to make of it...its white and bright (whatever that means) and is the only one that officially states "ozone treated"......this ticks me to some extent as this is poorest performer....might as well have not treated it with ozone.
• Navneet youva (60 or 70 approx GSM)- this paper I feel really works because of sheer thickness of it as there is nothing really special going on....or they are just too confident and focused on 'youva' tag which in English would  literally mean 'youth'. They mention "pulp is ECF based which reduces toxic effluent"......now honestly they could have marketed "white and bright" or "eco friendly" which it most likely is but I will leave it as benefit of doubt....I feel its not really a benefit but who cares.
• Taj white notebook (approx 60 GSM)- Now this is from where companies start to tell some things about product and make aware customer's life a bit easy. This company mentions things properly and I will cover only paper related stuff here. "Earth friendly paper and ECF"....basically recycled paper and no chlorine. This is only one which has full "ISO 9001 Certified" tag on it...basically its certified white? (don't know the details of ISO standard for page so pls educate me here). They don't mention ozone treatment, the surface is smooth but I think this one probably is not treated (considering they bothered doing ISO Certification, they don't mention the exact percentage though). Now if only they mentioned the GSM..sigh.
• Spectra 75 GSM office paper- Now this one is through and through office paper. Their boxes 4 mentioned point includes 2 about its printing features......well lets get to paper then. Its "eco friendly' they properly mention wheat straws based paper so kuddos for honest mention....then they continue the point with "highly recognized value for money copier brand"...sigh at least separate the point...anyway. The paper is "uncoated" also has smooth finish. Its also 88% of ISO Brightness rating.,,,its also jam free and is quite proud fact for it.....just shows its dedication to printer.....and value of it.
• JK Cedar 100 GSM- It uses most bullets to give most vague but real answers, good for avg person, bad for research. First the details mentioned properly, ECF and "wood from plantation", now this makes some grey lines on origin, definitely not as eco friendly as others...but who knows plantation have tonns of useless shavings, lumber, etc, easy to see them being used for paper..probably for better too. Now vague lot. "Ultra smooth paper" basically its coated, its possible to see and feel too. "HP Colorlok technology" explains some properties of it and why sheen and shade is seen easily here. "Highest whiteness and brightness'........whatever, its white and whiter then Spectra so probably higher then 90% ISO.....(mention the stuff man like seriously). This is only one which mentions using Twin wire manufacturing technology, this does make some properties differ but I don't know the process in detail so mention it if anyone is aware, for now its enough to know that it changes characteristic of end result....No mention of ozone here either.

 

Now that was fun for me at least, nice break time research topic so thanks again for this arcfide.

[Dimy]

  On 1/12/2021 at 12:33 PM, sgphototn said:

Dimy,

 

If I may suggest a download https://www.irfanview.com/. This is a simple image viewer programs I've used for at least ten years. 

 

It has many controls for improving images. One such control will be found under the 'Image' heading. Look for 'Color Corrections' sub-heading. Click and you'll see where you can easily make 'white balance'  corrections. 

 

By using this simple adjustment you'll bring the 'whiteness' of the paper back and make your inks color much more true.

 

You'll also see where you can increase the brightness of the image.

 

It's free to use and without spyware or malware.

 

Regards,

Stephen

 

 

Expand  

This looks good, I will give it a try, will do some tinkering with scanner after a while and will include scanning results for most papers.....Well I won't be for copy, especially the 400 page ones, but loose sheets will be done.

Thanks for this.

 

PS I will add scan results later, I want the sample to dry to some extent for a while before playing with them, at least let them dry for 2 or 4 days. meanwhile some normal sample trying for personal experiment.

[sansenri]

  On 1/12/2021 at 3:05 AM, Dimy said:

Thanks

Thanks again for ideas. I agree with you on this front lighting on these were not good (far from it), mostly due to taking the pics at night and running the 5 min timer. I will correct them and try to take pics in daylight. The purple cast is....well my shadow😅

 

I will try to do a scan and will add them along with photo. I tend to avoid the thing due to how gravely inaccurate it scans by default, I think I will need to see some estimate changes that need to be done there. Will do that and post it along with normal photos. hmm might as well try scanning swatch samples first to get some ideas...

 

Thanks again, will see what I can do for this and post the results, swatch one should have better light as it will be done in day lighting plus will scanning them.......now time to slap some life in that old HP scanner......

Expand  

I prefer daylight too.
It's not too difficult if you have a well lit place.
If I can suggest, even without any specific equipment, you can get good photos of simple objects if you follow this simple rule:

place the object to be photographed on a flat surface, stand on the opposite side of where the light comes from so that your shadow will not go on the subject, place a white reflecting surface on the opposite side of where the light comes from, i.e. on the same side where you are standing (It can be anything, a piece of cardboard with white paper glued on top is easy). By eye you cannot see the difference much, but it will be huge in the photo, the reflecting surface will increase the lighting and get rid of shadows.

this photo was taken by hand, in day light, in front of a window, with a white screen on the opposite side of the light.

 

[sansenri]

  On 1/12/2021 at 7:54 AM, Dimy said:

Swabs of 5 min dry pics adding here.

The first swan is earbud dip and across the page for both inks

Second set of swabs are done without re dipping the swabs in ink

Third set are again without re dipping of swabs

Last swab set is done where swabs are dipped again.

 

R&K Sallix shows the change in colour in each swabs while KWZ IG does not show any significant change, just shows saturation difference between both, did it to demonstrate that.

 

The colour came quite accurately here, lighting is better then in written samples above thanks to day light presence in room. 5min dry on 100 GSM JK cedar paper.

 

 

whatever is made at end of page. End section of page tends to come a bit dark in my photos due to camera not able to focus on the frame when adjusting white balance and ISO...focus tends to be in middle, still colour of inks are pretty nicely seen. The top 3 swab set are best examples.

Expand  

This one is much better, colours are showing much better now, but still you have a darker side at the bottom, use my white screen suggestion, it does work

Also take the photo from the longer side of the page so that difference in lighting from top to bottom will show less.

[Dimy]

  On 1/12/2021 at 9:25 PM, sansenri said:

This one is much better, colours are showing much better now, but still you have a darker side at the bottom, use my white screen suggestion, it does work

Also take the photo from the longer side of the page so that difference in lighting from top to bottom will show less.

Expand  

Yup I will use it. Doing some practice runs here and there for few days to get consistent lighting. Next batch of darkened inks will be done nicely, plus scans and well reference 5 min drys again if need arise after all consistency of light matters more here otherwise the test will become redundant in showing the difference which I aim to capture for both IG. Will do so.

[Dimy]

So been a while or 1 month now and the results are in for 1st month age in normal outside kept notebooks. The lighting conditions, I think I have managed to get a nice setting for it and managed to get quite good camera setting too. The idea of scanner was scrapped by me after the printer decided to show how fast it is......the thing is taking over 10min for 3 scans at 600dpi..not to mention the further work needed to correct the image...I really cant afford that much of time on it, so sorry for anyone who hoped for scans.

 

The camera and lighting was addressed and I think they will be liked. The setting has been obtained by using LDR reading of 800 as ambient and supporting it with table lamp at same light setting every-time (easy as lamp resets every-time turned off). Camera setting are 6000 White balance and ISO of 200 rest left at auto at fixed range from page (writing it for my memory as well😅)

 

If someone is interested in higher resolution images please do tell I will add them if asked in gallery.

 

Now to some personal observation. I am honestly surprised by fact that Sallix feels as light if not lighter then KWZ IG Blue-black. This is so cos while Preppy used in KWZ was tuned really dry (one step from starting to skip) while oliver Exam is actually quite wet pen (wetter then metro and safari) especially due to nib change. The wet trinity is well not even worth comparing, its pretty much black at this point with no sign of ageing. Should be fun to see when the change will start to show itself.

 

 

Taj white paper 60 GSM.

 

Nightingale paper 70 GSM

 

Navneet youva 60GSM approx

 

 

JK cedar 100GSM paper.

 

Classmate 50GSM approx. paper.

 

opinions and suggestions welcome anytime. The swatch sample will be added later as they were done on very different dates.

[yazeh]

Thanks Dimy for the update. 

Salix doesn't oxidize. It's a Nic ink but wimpy iron gall

However, I see KWZ is oxidizing nicely...

 

Keep up the good work...

[Dimy]

  On 2/8/2021 at 2:12 PM, yazeh said:

Thanks Dimy for the update. 

Salix doesn't oxidize. It's a Nic ink but wimpy iron gall

However, I see KWZ is oxidizing nicely...

 

Keep up the good work...

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It really is wimpy IG no doubt there😆