What is on your bench?

[VacNut]

It could be good learning experience for the community if you bought a filler and tested in a pen. 
The first set of clutch pullers for a 51 cap wasn’t perfect. It did not do a good job on first year caps. The puller had to be adjusted. 
The may need to do the same for the fillers

[gweimer1]

16 hours ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

Well, when it comes to vintage goods people always put a higher value on having all the original parts. And those original parts are a limited resource that dwindles over time. So they'll always cost more than replacements. Especially pristine NOS examples.

 

Some parts are functional, and will deteriorate with use, over time.   You run into the same debates with cars and musical instruments.  In the end, to me, a wire is a wire, and a screw is a screw.   Things need to be replaced in order to have the continued use of whatever it is.   You think any of those vintage cars never had a carburetor rebuilt?

 

To collect for esthetics, and for history, is probably more focused on pristine and original.  Collecting for the love of the instrument is more about enjoying it for its intended purpose.  For me, keeping the use of the pen alive is more important.   Remember that all those sacs we replace on vintage pens are newly made by people who want to keep the fountain pen alive and viable.

[FarmBoy]

7 hours ago, gweimer1 said:

 

Some parts are functional, and will deteriorate with use, over time.   You run into the same debates with cars and musical instruments.  In the end, to me, a wire is a wire, and a screw is a screw.   Things need to be replaced in order to have the continued use of whatever it is.   You think any of those vintage cars never had a carburetor rebuilt?

 

To collect for esthetics, and for history, is probably more focused on pristine and original.  Collecting for the love of the instrument is more about enjoying it for its intended purpose.  For me, keeping the use of the pen alive is more important.   Remember that all those sacs we replace on vintage pens are newly made by people who want to keep the fountain pen alive and viable.

But you get points on the concourse if the spare tire has the original air in it.

[es9]

13 hours ago, gweimer1 said:

To collect for esthetics, and for history, is probably more focused on pristine and original.  Collecting for the love of the instrument is more about enjoying it for its intended purpose.  For me, keeping the use of the pen alive is more important.   Remember that all those sacs we replace on vintage pens are newly made by people who want to keep the fountain pen alive and viable.

I agree with this. The lockdown filler is obviously a weak point on a fanatic pen. That’s not a knock on vacs; presumably Parker never designed the pumps to last forever.
 

While I would certainly prefer original pumps in pristine condition, I’d happily run a solid replacement, especially in a pen I regularly write with. Whatever it takes to keep more pens writing. 

[VacNut]

4 hours ago, es9 said:

I agree with this. The lockdown filler is obviously a weak point on a fanatic pen. That’s not a knock on vacs; presumably Parker never designed the pumps to last forever.
 

While I would certainly prefer original pumps in pristine condition, I’d happily run a solid replacement, especially in a pen I regularly write with. Whatever it takes to keep more pens writing. 

A lockdown filler invented in the 1930’s, saturated by ink, exposed to the nitric acid of the celluloid, and sits unrestored for 80-90 years is a “weak point”? The pen was intended to be an affordable, everyday item. The filler was an easily replaceable item in the 1930’s, like the tires on a car. 
 

Regularly used parts wear down. I don’t think the filler is any less of a weak point than the tip of a Vac nib, or a failed diaphragm. IMHO.
 

Would people also accept a reproduction nib in the pen? Both items are still readily available as original Parker made parts. Perhaps, if it was better suited to the writer, but I don’t think it would add to the value of the pen.

 

I suppose a reproduction filler could be an improvement if it could eliminate the diaphragm completely. A Vacumatic without a diaphragm- what a wonderful world….

[FarmBoy]

6 hours ago, VacNut said:

A Vacumatic without a diaphragm- what a wonderful world….

Most people don’t know what a Sager filler is. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

8 hours ago, VacNut said:

Would people also accept a reproduction nib in the pen? Both items are still readily available as original Parker made parts. Perhaps, if it was better suited to the writer, but I don’t think it would add to the value of the pen.

 

I am not sure I agree with this comparison. The filler is a functional part, if it is works as well as the originals, it should not affect the value. The nib is a considerably more subjective part since that is what decides how your pen writes, which is why most people use fountain pens.

 

Parker nibs have a particular feel and look that other replacement nibs don't. A Waterman nib will never write the same way as a Parker nib, but a replacement filler can easily work exactly the same way as an original filler (given it is manufactured to the same exact dimensions). There's the matter of staying true to the spirit of the pen as well, replacing a part with a new identical part is IMO okay (as opposed to something like converting a Parker 51 aerometric to a converter pen using 3rd party parts). Besides that, I'd say most people care about what they can't see. You can see the nib, you can't see the filler.

 

Plenty of restored pens out there have replacement pressure bars. Sheaffer Vac-fillers are no longer restored using felt washers and instead use modern synthetic rubber spacers instead. Many people restore safety pens and piston-fillers with o-rings instead of cork as they originally would have been. I've replaced the shattered pellet cups on two 51 vacs with superior modern ebonite replacements. I could go on and on here. Where do we draw the line at using original parts? If I replace the screw in the blindcap of a Snorkel with a modern screw of the same shape, is that blasphemy?

 

And the last thing, lockdown fillers are very much *not* readily available. Either you pay through the nose for a NOS example, or you have to scrounge around for parts pens which are not cheap either. I rarely see these Junior vacs (which are more or less the cheapest 1st gen vacs you can find) for less than $50 (inc. tax/shipping) and those are sold as-is, meaning it's a gamble if the filler is functional. 

 

I think the thing you're getting hung up on is "improvement." It doesn't need to be an improvement, it needs to be a good replacement. There are less and less of these fillers as time goes on and it's only going to get more expensive to source them. A good replacement needs to fit as well as the originals and work the same, it doesn't need to be an improvement.

 

I hope I am not being disrespectful, I certainly think this is a conversation worth having. But I think it's important that good replacement parts exist for the longevity of the hobby. A lot of these parts are 75+ years old and everything wears over time. There isn't an endless supply of these.

[Ron Z]

12 minutes ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

There isn't an endless supply of these.

 

Which is why I argue for repair as much as possible VS replacement.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

9 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

 

Which is why I argue for repair as much as possible VS replacement.

 

I agree with this (which is why I'm pretty proud of myself for "restoring" two of the plastic fillers with new pellet cups instead of throwing them out and getting new ones), but if you get a pen with a broken filler that is rusted together (or it gets broken in the process of trying to fix it, cough) - I think it's reasonable to source a replacement.

 

I try to be as minimal as possible with my restorations, I don't ever replace pressure bars unless they are literally falling apart, etc., but at some point parts need to be replaced. I have another plastic filler that I mentioned here a few weeks ago where the threaded bit is rusted stuck to the collar that the diaphragm usually sits on. I haven't been able to get it apart with anything I tried. For something like that I would get a replacement.

[VacNut]

42 minutes ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

 

I am not sure I agree with this comparison. The filler is a functional part, if it is works as well as the originals, it should not affect the value. The nib is a considerably more subjective part since that is what decides how your pen writes, which is why most people use fountain pens.

 

Parker nibs have a particular feel and look that other replacement nibs don't. A Waterman nib will never write the same way as a Parker nib, but a replacement filler can easily work exactly the same way as an original filler (given it is manufactured to the same exact dimensions). There's the matter of staying true to the spirit of the pen as well, replacing a part with a new identical part is IMO okay (as opposed to something like converting a Parker 51 aerometric to a converter pen using 3rd party parts). Besides that, I'd say most people care about what they can't see. You can see the nib, you can't see the filler.

 

Plenty of restored pens out there have replacement pressure bars. Sheaffer Vac-fillers are no longer restored using felt washers and instead use modern synthetic rubber spacers instead. Many people restore safety pens and piston-fillers with o-rings instead of cork as they originally would have been. I've replaced the shattered pellet cups on two 51 vacs with superior modern ebonite replacements. I could go on and on here. Where do we draw the line at using original parts? If I replace the screw in the blindcap of a Snorkel with a modern screw of the same shape, is that blasphemy?

 

And the last thing, lockdown fillers are very much *not* readily available. Either you pay through the nose for a NOS example, or you have to scrounge around for parts pens which are not cheap either. I rarely see these Junior vacs (which are more or less the cheapest 1st gen vacs you can find) for less than $50 (inc. tax/shipping) and those are sold as-is, meaning it's a gamble if the filler is functional. 

 

I think the thing you're getting hung up on is "improvement." It doesn't need to be an improvement, it needs to be a good replacement. There are less and less of these fillers as time goes on and it's only going to get more expensive to source them. A good replacement needs to fit as well as the originals and work the same, it doesn't need to be an improvement.

 

I hope I am not being disrespectful, I certainly think this is a conversation worth having. But I think it's important that good replacement parts exist for the longevity of the hobby. A lot of these parts are 75+ years old and everything wears over time. There isn't an endless supply of these.

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

7 minutes ago, VacNut said:

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you

 

You as well, thank you. I think on the bright side the fact that we have strong opinions about this means that we really care about these pens and the hobby.

[VacNut]

There are more lockdown fillers out there than people let on. The aluminum speedline filler is a bit harder to find, but they can be replaced with a plastic filler.

 

I suspect the celluloid barrels will degrade quicker than filler parts being used up.

At $37 a reproduction filler is comparable to the cost of a parts pen at $50, assuming that you get additional Vacumatic parts than just the filler - nib, clip, jewels, and cap.

 

We want to just order the single part that is needed ant a low price, like Amazon Prime. This doesn’t work with vintage pens.

 

I regularly buy several lockdown fillers at the London Pen Show every show. Am I buying all of the available stock? - not likely as there are more at every show.

[VacNut]

2 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Most people don’t know what a Sager filler is. 

🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️

Although it still has seals and “gasket”, albeit they are almost indestructible.

BTW 🤫🤫🤫 on the Sagers. 

[FarmBoy]

[VacNut]

4 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Now you are just teasing…these are complete. What does parts bin look like?

[VacNut]

For every filler, there may be a clip, cap, barrel, and nib. How big are those piles?

[VacNut]

5 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

I’ll take a few more if available 

[John T]

12 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Forgive me for being slightly envious 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Look at Mr. Money Bags over here (or is it Mr. Vac-Unit Bags?).

[VacNut]

That’s just the NOS fillers. I am sure there is a stockpile of just restored lockdown fillers.

just like diamonds  and De Beers, there’s a pen “syndicate”? 
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔