What is on your bench?

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

1 hour ago, Ron Z said:

You go by what fits, not by what some "guide" says to use.  If a #15 or even a #14 is too tight, then you use a 13.  If you don't have one, wait and get the right one.

 

Do you recommend resacing it if it ended up fitting okay or just leave it in there since it's already installed? Like I said in the previous post it was just a little tight towards the end. But I can't imagine this would damage anything? The problem for me is sourcing a #13 sac since the store I buy them from doesn't stock them usually. 

[Ron Z]

Order every whole number size (vs 13 1/2 etc) from 12-22 so that you have them in stock when PSC starts making more sacs.  The middle of the bell curve is 16-18, so maybe a few more in that size.

 

Your call on resac or not.  I would be inclined to put the smaller size in.

 

 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

46 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

Order every whole number size (vs 13 1/2 etc) from 12-22 so that you have them in stock when PSC starts making more sacs.  The middle of the bell curve is 16-18, so maybe a few more in that size.

 

Your call on resac or not.  I would be inclined to put the smaller size in.

 

 

 

I think I'll leave it alone for now if there's no danger of it harming the pen. I figure opening it up an extra time is just an extra opportunity to break something.

 

I should probably do that in regards to the sacs. I usually just order about as many as I need in amounts of around 7-8 total depending on the pens I'm working on since I don't work on that many pens. That's usually enough for me for two months or more.

 

If I have any smaller pens I usually order a few of the smaller sacs, like 13/14, etc. And then reorder when I'm done with those. Which obviously doesn't work very well if I can't order more (like right now). I guess I should order in bulk next time.

[VacNut]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:24 PM, GlenV said:

I’m happy to have a chance to find one of these Waterman overlay pens, kind of a grail pen for me, I figured maybe sometime I would find one that needed work and might be affordable that way. However even better I bought a beater 0052 barrel feed and nib so had a chance to try to remove an overlay and check out the leverbox. I didn’t know but should have that it’s just a standard waterman box, but a broken one like the 0452 here. There’s a trick to getting the lever through the overlay with a separate small metal stamped part and figure the order of putting it back when the overlay goes back on. Both were stubborn to remove despite heat and much effort. With the heat some distortion of the barrel is easy to do, and I left a section in the barrel while doing this so not to alter the threaded area and then possibly crack it there putting it back. Whew, but fun and I think went ok in that I didn’t break it. More work yet but easy.

 I had a better idea of the job after practice to prepare for this sterling 0452 but not in a hurry to do another one.

sorry reverse order for pics

 

Very impressive, indeed. I am not sure the original description of the beater pen or the overlay pen from the description, but removing an overlay after years of accumulated gunk/polish/dirt is quite a feat without breaking the barrel or lever box. Leaving the section in place was probably essential to avoid damage. Was the lever box damaged in the overlay pen?

[GlenV]

22 hours ago, VacNut said:

Very impressive, indeed. I am not sure the original description of the beater pen or the overlay pen from the description, but removing an overlay after years of accumulated gunk/polish/dirt is quite a feat without breaking the barrel or lever box. Leaving the section in place was probably essential to avoid damage. Was the lever box damaged in the overlay pen?

Thanks, the amount of force required to move the overlays is surprising. And awkward to grip heated.
The 0052 was very worn, no cap, and the overlay was in poor shape, but I had bought it for parts, but had a decent 2 nib so a good one to learn with. The box was broken on the silver pen, I thought since the box would have limited upward movement when the lever was forced against a hardened sac that it would not break so easily, but both pen boxes were broken at the hinge point as they are prone to. I put in a good nickel box although doesn’t quite look like silver, I was thinking about plating the lever. The pen came without one, I think was removed when the box broke since some damage to the overlay around where the lever was. Both of the overlays were a bit embedded into the rubber at the ends, maybe manufactured that way? So I had to try to lift the edges a little to move both overlays. I cleaned up the gold filled overlay and put it on a poor condition 54, quite fun. 

[GlenV]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:13 PM, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

 

The size 14 was okay. It felt a little tight towards the very back, it feels like maybe the pressure bar is not lying flat and instead it is tilting down which is a little strange. I did not want to take the bar out to check for fear of damaging something. The pen fills well and I don't feel any uncomfortable amount of pressure when lifting the lever.

 

 

 

Here's the pen in question. I am a big fan of these hand engraved overlays. Not a huge fan of the nib, this is one of the finest nibs I've ever used, truly a needlepoint. I am not sure if it is just very worn or it came out of the factory this way. The grid on this paper is 3mm so it is finer than it looks.

 

I think for a calligrapher this would probably be a very nice nib. It goes from what I would consider XXXF to around a M which is perfect for copperplate. 

 

The pen is pretty worn but it still looks nice. The part where the pen posts is severely worn down to the brass. I have a few like this and the ridges make it grippy for posting, this one is very loose when posting because of the wear. Clearly a pen that got a lot of love and use over the years.

That’s a pretty little  0552 1/2v and a super cool nib, why you don’t like it is beyond me!

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

3 hours ago, GlenV said:

That’s a pretty little  0552 1/2v and a super cool nib, why you don’t like it is beyond me!

 

The nib is too scratchy for me.  It has an almost architect shaped grind (maybe because of wear?) and the tipping is very very fine. I think it is also very slightly misaligned but it's only off by like... 1% or something and I know I don't have the skills to align a soft nib to that degree.

 

I cleaned it out last night because I know if I keep writing it I will be tempted to tune it further and mess up the tipping. I like the overlay and rest of the pen itself, going to keep it for my collection. But I don't think I will be inking it again.

[GlenV]

Here are the 2 overlay pens, and a Alco nib I soldered (not nearly as pretty a job as the Sheaffer earlier, but whose got a laser welder and I'm not perfectly skilled it takes practice) The 54 is still and will always be a user grade pen, but a pretty nice one to use for my likes.

 

[cossar]

Here’s what I’ve been up to recently.  They all needed new sacs, most of the nibs were in bad shape, and the Shaeffer touchdown filling mechanisms were all compromised. So I’ve fixed them all up mostly, just waiting on the shellac so I can glue the sacs on and they will all be done. I’ll sell the Duofold Senior to make back the costs of the repairs.

[VacNut]

Nice work. I am unfamiliar with the sheaffer piston filling systems, but I hear they can be finicky. The shellac is for the duofold?

[cossar]

Thanks @VacNut, I haven't ventured into the shaeffer piston fillers, but the touchdown filling mechanisms are actually pretty easy. I'm a newbie to the pen restoration side of things (I have fixed up other things in life though, and generally handy), and could figure it out after a few youtube videos and Richard Binder guides. Essentially just replacing an o-ring, a gasket, and replacing the sac. AND making sure you don't use too much force and use sealant in the right spots. Actually, the batch of pens above have been great entry-level restorations. The Duofold isn't a lucky curve, so it was also a pretty easy repair.

 

Every one of those pens needs a new sac, so the shellac will be to glue the sacs on.  

[VacNut]

It’s been a long time since I held a sheaffer. I thought those pens have a screw off end cap connected to a piston rod and o-rings? They have a sack and o-rings? Seems like a complicated filler system. 

[cossar]

56 minutes ago, VacNut said:

It’s been a long time since I held a sheaffer. I thought those pens have a screw off end cap connected to a piston rod and o-rings? They have a sack and o-rings? Seems like a complicated filler system. 

Yes....ish. Here's Richard's article on them - if I were to explain it I would make it sound way more complicated than it is.

 

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/touchdown.htm

[VacNut]

That filler system seems overly complicated. In the end I am not convinced it has more ink capacity than the earlier lever or button filler system. Thx for the information

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

It's actually pretty simple, just uses air pressure to flatten the sac and fill. And also strangely enough, not that much newer than lever or button fillers. I am pretty sure Sheaffer used Chilton's patent for their Touchdown filler, and Crocker/Chilton made "pneumatic" fillers in the (late?) 1920's.

 

I like it far more than Parker's vacumatic filling system or the later snorkel fillers (which are a variation on the touchdown but much more of a pain in the ass). It's incredibly easy to maintain, the hardest part is probably getting the slippery o-ring into the back of the pen. 

 

I'd go as far as saying it's my favorite vintage filling system. It's easier and more satisfying to use than either lever fillers or button fillers. It doesn't hold quite as much ink as Parker's vacs or Sheaffer's own vac-fillers but is much easier to maintain than either one (especially the vac fillers, those are infinitely harder). It's the perfect combination of reliability and ease of repair. The only downside is that they're rather boring visually, these only ever came in solid drab colors. No fun celluloids.

[cossar]

16 hours ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

It's actually pretty simple, just uses air pressure to flatten the sac and fill. And also strangely enough, not that much newer than lever or button fillers. I am pretty sure Sheaffer used Chilton's patent for their Touchdown filler, and Crocker/Chilton made "pneumatic" fillers in the (late?) 1920's.

 

I like it far more than Parker's vacumatic filling system or the later snorkel fillers (which are a variation on the touchdown but much more of a pain in the ass). It's incredibly easy to maintain, the hardest part is probably getting the slippery o-ring into the back of the pen. 

 

I'd go as far as saying it's my favorite vintage filling system. It's easier and more satisfying to use than either lever fillers or button fillers. It doesn't hold quite as much ink as Parker's vacs or Sheaffer's own vac-fillers but is much easier to maintain than either one (especially the vac fillers, those are infinitely harder). It's the perfect combination of reliability and ease of repair. The only downside is that they're rather boring visually, these only ever came in solid drab colors. No fun celluloids.

I have to agree - they are simple to repair, satisfying to fill, and I actually like the colors since I use my pens in predominantly professional settings. Also, I am a BIG fan of the triumph nib - aesthetics, way it writes...everything. 

[VacNut]

The snorkel is a clever mechanically cool mechanism to solve a minor problem. Most pens have either a twist, push button, or pump process. To combine two into a single pen is a bit over the top. Most people are amazed when they see the snorkel extend from the pen, like a mosquito proboscis. The telescoping feed reminds me of the early safety pens.

Great pen, but hate to have to maintain them.

 

[Ron Z]

Snorkels are a royal pain to restore.  Fiddly, and prone to messy damage when the sac fails.  Until Martin at Woodbin died I was using his PVC sacs in every snorkel.  I find that pens restored with the current PVC sacs don't fill nearly as well as with Martin's PVC, or latex sacs.

 

When you restore a snorkel make sure that you put a good coating of talc on the sac before you put it in the sac guard.  This will minimize contact with the metal of the sac guard.   ...and don't use red ink, or inks that contain red, in the pen.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

7 hours ago, VacNut said:

The snorkel is a clever mechanically cool mechanism to solve a minor problem. Most pens have either a twist, push button, or pump process. To combine two into a single pen is a bit over the top. Most people are amazed when they see the snorkel extend from the pen, like a mosquito proboscis. The telescoping feed reminds me of the early safety pens.

Great pen, but hate to have to maintain them.

 

 

Yeah, it's a great people pleaser. My friends' eyes start glazing over whenever I start talking about vintage pens but a snorkel never fails to impress. It's such a cool mechanism.

 

But I do not like repairing them, too fiddly and too many bits that need exact alignment. I have two snorkels right now that have been pending restoration for like half a year that I just don't feel like working on. One is a boring old Admiral but the other is a nice "Triumph" all gold fill model. The later needs a replacement nib too as it's a bit wonky.

[VacNut]

I would love to be a fly on the wall at the first sheaffer meeting when the R&D introduced the pen. The leadership must have been amazed by the protruding snorkel, until they discovered the complex mechanism, the additional cost, and the reduced ink capacity.  I still may buy one just for the novelty.