Inks that 'lay' on the paper rather than 'absorb'.

[Jip]

Hey there,

 

Please excuse my lack of correct terminology maybe. I've got a few inks that I really enjoy and I'll try describe why, and my question is why are these so nice and what other inks behave the same?

 

So I've got a lot of ink, from Pelikan and Montblanc and some Rohrer + Klingner and Waterman etc.

 

The inks I seem to like most are the inks that seem to dry fully but lay on top of paper rather than soak fully inside, if that makes sense...

 

The inks that seem to do just that are:

Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black

Montblanc Permanent Black

Montblanc Permanent Blue

 

Although these seem to lay on the paper when dried rather than absorbed it does not mean they don't dry fast, the Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black dries plenty fast.

 

I'd like to find inks that behave the same as the ones above, any help would be amazing. They don't have to be permanent however. 

[Karmachanic]

What paper are you using?

[Olya]

(Bottled) Pelikan 4001 Blue Black is an iron gall ink, I don't know how exactly it bonds with the paper (i.e. does it absorb?; Pel BlBl in carts is a dye ink).

 

Montblanc's premanent inks (I think there are only black and blue, right?) are pigment inks and those tend to stay on top. Which is why you have to be careful about smearing and why in theory pigment inks can wash off/smear off due to water (either from moist air or outright flooding) and why Jewish students use a Yad when reading, now it's traditional, but in the past it was because the scrolls were made of vellum parchment and the ink was carbon ink (i.e. pigment) and the words would smear away if an actual finger were to be used.

 

This was quite a detour... Anyway!

 

Either stick with pigment inks (though on bad paper I've had pigment ink bleed through! i.e. something was absorbed that's part of the ink formula) or buy coated paper.

 

It's mostly a paper thing, really, the more coated a paper is, the less absorbent it is, the more sheen appears (though some inks don't sheen much, e.g. J Herbin inks (exceptions exist! Looking at you, Emeraude de Chivor!)).

 

Clairefontaine, Rhodia, Oxford are well coated and Tomoe River as well.

Some German papers are also nicely coated, but I think the ones I mentioned kinda take the cake in terms of coating and smoothness.

 

[yazeh]

 

 

Jip, inks used on cheap paper will absorb, wether they are permanent or not. 

Inks on coated paper (i.e. fountain pen friendly paper) have different reactions. 

Cellulose reactive inks or bulletproof inks (Noodler's) soak into the paper. 

In my experience some of R&K sketchinks, (Pigment inks) soak deep in the paper. 

 

 

@Olya I always thought the Bad was used originally due to the sanctity of the Torah. Muslims use a feather when reading the Quran. Though I've read that the smudging happens if the text is touched. I thought that some ancient Torah's used Iron gall inks....

[Olya]

12 minutes ago, yazeh said:

 

 

Jip, inks used on cheap paper will absorb, wether they are permanent or not. 

Inks on coated paper (i.e. fountain pen friendly paper) have different reactions. 

Cellulose reactive inks or bulletproof inks (Noodler's) soak into the paper. 

In my experience some of R&K sketchinks, (Pigment inks) soak deep in the paper. 

 

 

@Olya I always thought the Bad was used originally due to the sanctity of the Torah. Muslims use a feather when reading the Quran. Though I've read that the smudging happens if the text is touched. I thought that some ancient Torah's used Iron gall inks....

Interesting! I've only ever heard of the smudging as explanation (and the continuation of the use of the Yad as tradition nowadays with no other purpose), didn't know about the feather in Islam, but I suppose vellum and carbon ink were widely used and smudging a universally big problem.

[yazeh]

9 minutes ago, Olya said:

Interesting! I've only ever heard of the smudging as explanation (and the continuation of the use of the Yad as tradition nowadays with no other purpose), didn't know about the feather in Islam, but I suppose vellum and carbon ink were widely used and smudging a universally big problem.

They use even feather on the printed version of the text. I heard a rabbi to say the original reason being the sanctity of the text, but that other mention the smudging of the ink...

[arcfide]

You're likely to get this effect more with the pigmented and iron gall inks based on the inks that you list, as mentioned above. 

 

A little nit, though, is that I think it's technically incorrect to say that you want "coated" paper. You want ink-resistantly "sized" paper, as paper sizing is what is done with Tomoe River and the like. Good writing paper is generally considered "uncoated" and Pilot even talks about how many coated papers are inappropriate for fountain pens. Coated papers, as far as I have been able to find in the literature, are usually more like what you find in glossy magazines, or photo papers, or other types, such as waxed paper. These don't do well with fountain pens. However, different paper sizing can affect how much the ink absorbs into the paper, and if you want more ink to stay on top of the paper, you'll want to look at the ink-resistant papers. Some ones that I'd give a try would be those mentioned above, as well as Graphilo. 

[BrassRatt]

Glossy magazine papers are coated with a clay mixture that covers the paper's cellulose fibers and prevents bonding with the cellulose-reactive dyes of "bulletproof"-style permanent inks, leaving the writing vulnerable. 

[Dione]

On 12/31/2020 at 2:29 PM, Karmachanic said:

What paper are you using?

This is the most important question. The combination of ink and paper will depend on whether an ink soaks in or sits on the surface. Unless the OP comes back and says which paper then we are all half blind.

[TheDutchGuy]

In my personal experience, even on absorbent paper inks like Platinum Blue-Black, P4001 Blue-Black and Sailor kiwaguro tend to form a half-cylinder (i.e. a rope of ink) on top of the page, whereas other inks are being absorbed into the paper. On coated paper, the difference between the inks is much less noticeable.