Big, dry-writing pens?

[twigletzone]

So, I seem to have acquired a collection of pens that runs very much to the wet side. OK, there's a Pilot Metropolitan in there; that writes sufficiently dry/feedbacky that I don't actually use it much. And I have a small stable of Jinhao things which are also on the finer side of medium, but I'm not really counting them - they're not at all bad for the price point but writing experience isn't a major part of the deal. Lastly a Platinum Prefounte which is glassy smooth despite being a fine-medium.

 

The good pens I have are a Carene which is a firehose, a Pelikan M200 on its way to me, and on the cheaper end a Sheaffer Prelude which is pretty level-headed (it's coping with a shimmer ink well at present) and a Parker IM which is neither noticeably wet nor noticeably dry on Quink.

 

Is there any such animal as a nice quality pen with a M or larger nib that writes on the dry side? I'd love to be able to use more Diamine colours and get to see some shading and lovely things like that, but a lot of the Diamines run pretty wet. The Carene is a disaster with a wet ink, it literally leaves little inky sausages behind, and while I have high hopes for my M200 as a writer most people seem to find Pelikans run wet too.  Ideally something that doesn't have a triangular grip - I'm left handed (underwriter) and like to be able to find my own sweet spot for holding the pen rather than having it dictated to me. Lamy Safaris, for example, I find incredibly uncomfortable to hold.

 

I have realised over time that all the Diamine colours I like most seem to be the worst behaved ones - Sargasso Sea was the first one I ever bought (still looking for a pen that's happy on it), and Grape is one I wish I thought it was worth buying. But I do love my colours, and being tied to one or two ranges of six or eight colours for my entire fountain pen life seems a little depressing. Any thoughts?

[MuddyWaters]

The Lamy safari pens tend to write dry out of the box (they become forehoses after beginners press hard on the nibs), so I wonder if another Lamy model with the same nib unit but a shape that would be better for your grip might work. 

 

Also, one of the best pens for ink shading is the Lamy 2000. It's nibs in medium or larger are squared off at the tip and spread the ink across the page as you write. The Lamy 2000 is not tuned overly wet. 

[twigletzone]

2 hours ago, MuddyWaters said:

The Lamy safari pens tend to write dry out of the box (they become forehoses after beginners press hard on the nibs), so I wonder if another Lamy model with the same nib unit but a shape that would be better for your grip might work. 

 

Also, one of the best pens for ink shading is the Lamy 2000. It's nibs in medium or larger are squared off at the tip and spread the ink across the page as you write. The Lamy 2000 is not tuned overly wet. 

 

Do you know which other Lamys have the same nib unit? I've really never examined their range since the recommended-everywhere Safari was such a bust.

 

The notion of a 2000 has crossed my mind once or twice, but at the price it's a little way off, having just bought the Pelikan! I do love a stub-esque nib though so this may have bumped it up the list a little...

[silverlifter]

You could always tune one of your existing pens to write drier. Or use a notoriously dry ink, like Diamine Registrars, and you will get monster shading, plus permanence.

[bunnspecial]

28 minutes ago, twigletzone said:

 

Do you know which other Lamys have the same nib unit? I've really never examined their range since the recommended-everywhere Safari was such a bust.

 

The notion of a 2000 has crossed my mind once or twice, but at the price it's a little way off, having just bought the Pelikan! I do love a stub-esque nib though so this may have bumped it up the list a little...

All current Lamys save for the 2000 use the same nib. This includes the Al-Star, Studio, and Dialogue. Higher trim Studios(I.e. Palladium) as well as the dialogue have 14K nibs. 
 

I love my B 2000, and as said it’s sort of stubby. I find that shading inks do really sing in that pen. Montblancs share similar stubby b/bb nibs, but perhaps even more pronounced than the 2000. In particular , to me the MB BBs could properly be called stubs. 

[twigletzone]

6 minutes ago, silverlifter said:

You could always tune one of your existing pens to write drier. Or use a notoriously dry ink, like Diamine Registrars, and you will get monster shading, plus permanence.

I had to tune the Carene a bit when I first got it - in that case it's an inlaid/very uniquely shaped nib so there wasn't an awful lot I could do, but it's also gold so a bit of leaning on it gently did make some difference. I've also gone over to using cartridges rather than a converter since there's much less chance of air getting in at the back end of a cartridge. Still tweaking and fiddling with it trying to get it really working well.

 

Notoriously dry inks I'm looking into - I spent ages reading ink reviews today and I now have a whole spreadsheet devoted to inks sorted by wetness. Wim has crowned Herbin Cafe des Iles as the driest ink he's ever used, so that's on the list if the Graf von F-C Cobalt Blue doesn't play well. Not going for iron gall/uber permanent just yet as I live in a rented house with a light coloured carpet... that and I have a tendency to forget which pen I've inked.

[twigletzone]

1 minute ago, bunnspecial said:

All current Lamys save for the 2000 use the same nib. This includes the Al-Star, Studio, and Dialogue. Higher trim Studios(I.e. Palladium) as well as the dialogue have 14K nibs. 
 

[...] Montblancs share similar stubby b/bb nibs, but perhaps even more pronounced than the 2000. In particular , to me the MB BBs could properly be called stubs. 

 

Studios look very good now that I check. Reviews don't mention dry flow but a lot of people on here have had to swap out the nibs for finer ones to get enough ink through, which suggests a fairly stingy feed. And the shape looks delicious, reminds me of the Carene which is a joy to handle.

 

Montblanc - whoof, that's a pen for another year (or possibly a new job with better pay). Looks like the 2000 is the more realistic of the stub-alikes for me. Thank you for the suggestions!

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, twigletzone said:

Is there any such animal as a nice quality pen with a M or larger nib that writes on the dry side?

 

Surely a Platinum #3776 or President with a C nib would fit the bill? I don't recall anyone ever remarking that their Platinum gold-nibbed pen writes wet out-of-the-box and as supplied by the manufacturer (without the retailer ‘tuning’ it before dispatch to the customer, at his/her request or otherwise).

 

Given your question, I'd approach the solution space from the corner that is:

• medium to large pen body
• Broad (or even broader) nib
• not-cheap, since you specified “nice quality pen” as the concern, not how to spend the least
• Japanese, but probably not Pilot with a broader nib width grade

and de-prioritise any Western brand in considering my suggestions, especially for the same price as say a gold-nibbed Platinum or Sailor.

[bunnspecial]

30 minutes ago, twigletzone said:

 

Montblanc - whoof, that's a pen for another year (or possibly a new job with better pay). Looks like the 2000 is the more realistic of the stub-alikes for me. Thank you for the suggestions!

I have a bunch of MBs, all bought used/second hand and similar in price to what I paid for my last Lamy 2000. Most of mine are the 1960s vintage 12/14/22/24, and all of those have been in the $100-200 range. Surprising enough, one of my least expensive was a 24 OB(oblique broad), although my 12 OBB was closer to $200. 
 

A nice 146, which to me is as close to a perfect pen as is made, can be had for $250-300, although the big nibs tend to be at the upper end of that price. 

[sandy101]

The Parson's Essential from Mr Pen works very well with Diamine ink. 

 

Platinum would fit the bill, but you'd want a broad nib to show off the inks colours.

 

A Visconti  Van Gough would also make a nice option.  Beautiful pens that write on the dry side (in my opinion). If you order from The Writing Desk, they'll test the nib before they send it to you. 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

52 minutes ago, sandy101 said:

Platinum would fit the bill, but you'd want a broad nib to show off the inks colours.

 

Maybe this Sailor pen model with a (Naginata togi) Broad nib? Big, broad, nice quality, and I doubt any Sailor pen writes ‘wet’ compared to European brands such as Pelikan and Waterman.

 

This colour for the same pen model is even more attractive (to my eyes):

https://sailor.co.jp/product/10-7117/

 

400 units of each colour were released (200 for the Japanese domestic market, and 200 for international markets, if I'm not mistaken).

[Runnin_Ute]

I have four Pelikan M200'S in Fine, Medium, Broad and OB (Oblique Broad. I also have a B nibbed M400 (14k nib), the M400's nib is much wetter than the M200'S which is steel nib.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Your problem is you are using too wet a ink.

The driest inks are Pelikan 4001's. (made dry for it's wet nibs)...not that I find the 200 to be a wet nib.....but I am use to wet semi-flex from the '50-70 era.

Many people use sloppy wet inks in a wet nib and blame the nib. PxxxPoor paper will also make any ink.....wide.

 

Second driest ink as far as I know are Lamy inks.....and stay far, far away from Lamy Green.....don't even take it as a gift.

I find MB to be middling dry.

I don't know how wet Diamine is, in I don't use it. The few times I used Diamine.....well I'm OCD on woolly lines, so don't have any Diamine, in under a 1 1/2" thick magnifying glass, Diamine has for me a woolly line. A symptom of a overly wet ink....in my papers are ok.

 

There may be other dry inks, in we are living in the Golden Age of Inks, and good ink companies are sprouting up like midnight mushrooms over the last 5 or 6 years.

 

A second problem could well be what ever paper you are using. You didn't mention any.

Oxford Optic 90g is a great cheap paper. I have it in spiral notebooks, and I live in Germany, until recently had good folks send me some from England or use it's =, Clairfontaine Velout 90g.

A month or so ago, the German Post office started carrying it.

 

A dry ink can make your line 1/2 a width narrower....same with a good paper like Oxford can make your line 1/2 a width narrower. = one full width.

Rhoda 80/90g or Clairfontaine Triumph are good slick paper...and a bit more expensive but what the hell.......one does need a pack of each..............sigh cubed, I was so cheap for years I didn't spend a couple beers on great paper. I finally got some of both.

 

 

Almost forgot....the 200 is old standard width....1/2 a width narrower than modern fat and blobby round ball nibs. The 200 writes with a nice clean line, because it still has proper nib geometry.

It is designed like all Pelikans to use a dry Pelikan ink.........I really don't worry about it, but I use mostly two toned shading inks, instead of wet monotone inks.

However I was never as much into 'exact' nib widths...........some companies M's are other companies F or B.

All you can hope for is Very Wide, Wide, Middling, Somewhat Narrow, Narrow, Very Narrow, and Very, Very Narrow.

For Very Narrow, and Very, Very Narrow you have to go to Japanese pens or a nibmeister.

The most important thing is Does the nib write well...........not how wide or narrow. At best all that can be expected is the Nib width is within horseshoe range......if within hand grenade range, just ignore the nib marked with, and stick it in the pen cup of that width you see, or feel it is.    

 

Each company has it's very own standards and for good reasons. They overlap the standards of other companies.........so once Parker was wider than Shaffer. Parker made wider so back in the day of One Man One Pen, and a new pen every decade, the customer wouldn't make a horrible mistake get confused in nib width and buy a Shaffer instead....if they made a nib as narrow as Shaffer; such mistakes could be made.

 

From the very same company, on the same minute, the very same pen could come off the assembly line, and have a skinny M that is exactly as wide as the Fat F, following it.

The pens after that could well be a Fat M and a Skinny F........................and what a world of difference.

I can get more detailed if you wish, I often use Zorn's width standards he got when he visited the Shaffer factory when it closed down.

Even today the myth of numbered nibs being standardized is still just a myth. a 1.0 nib could well be 1.1+ or 0.85.

Don't feel bad, a fine Japanese poster proved ball point cartridges are no where near what is marked on the tube.

[twigletzone]

1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Your problem is you are using too wet a ink.

The driest inks are Pelikan 4001's. (made dry for it's wet nibs)...not that I find the 200 to be a wet nib.....but I am use to wet semi-flex from the '50-70 era.

Many people use sloppy wet inks in a wet nib and blame the nib. PxxxPoor paper will also make any ink.....wide.

 

Second driest ink as far as I know are Lamy inks.....and stay far, far away from Lamy Green.....don't even take it as a gift.

I find MB to be middling dry.

I don't know how wet Diamine is, in I don't use it. The few times I used Diamine.....well I'm OCD on woolly lines, so don't have any Diamine, in under a 1 1/2" thick magnifying glass, Diamine has for me a woolly line. A symptom of a overly wet ink....in my papers are ok.

 

There may be other dry inks, in we are living in the Golden Age of Inks, and good ink companies are sprouting up like midnight mushrooms over the last 5 or 6 years.

 

No worries on the Lamy Green front, that's a really ugly colour! I do like a green but I prefer them a bit deeper and not so close to turquoise. Graf von F-C Moss Green, that sort of ballpark.

 

As I said upthread I'm aware that ink is a factor in the equation; I'm awaiting some drier options from Cult Pens as I type. They were out of stock of Pelikan 4001 in the colour I wanted and I'm not sure if my local brick and mortar pen shop is open thanks to the wildly yo-yoing virus restrictions in the UK, so that particular one may be a longer project. But, part of my reason for this post is I also enjoy the colour options that come in the wetter inks - I don't want to have to write entire ink brands off forever because of a historical accident in my pen collection!

 

(Diamines vary, according to folks on here. A couple of their colours come out really dry, Prussian Blue and Damson being the most often mentioned, and their registrar's ink does too thanks to the formula. But they aren't a brand that has a rep for general dryness in the same way 4001 does.)

 

1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

A second problem could well be what ever paper you are using. You didn't mention any.

Currently, my homebrew travellers' notebook holds three Silvine 9x7" school exercise books. They're solid quality; smooth feel, no feathering (none visible to the naked eye at least, they might not pass your tests!) and no showthrough at all. They're the sort of quality most UK schools use - that's where I recognised the name from - and UK schools do generally teach fountain pen use; that's certianly where I learnt to love them. But Silvine is not up there in the Clairefontaine class. I do have a second home made travellers' notebook which has a Rhodia side-stapled notebook and a Clairefontaine in it, both A5, but I've not actually used those yet; I started my general daily journal in the other one because it was the first one I made by about two months, and it's just stuck. I may tear into the other one for cursive improvement practice, I need some sort of reason to start on it!

 

But, it's definitely not just the paper causing the problem. As I said, when I first inked up the Carene it was literally leaving three-dimensional sausages of ink - that's not the paper's fault. That, however, was Diamine Sargasso Sea, which people review as both Hecking Wet and a bad-mannered, difficult ink. I was young, I didn't understand.

 

1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Oxford Optic 90g is a great cheap paper. I have it in spiral notebooks, and I live in Germany, until recently had good folks send me some from England or use it's =, Clairfontaine Velout 90g.

A month or so ago, the German Post office started carrying it.

 

Oxford have just changed all their paper and notebooks to include these gigantic registration marks printed in the corners of the sheets. They're meant to work with their app so you can digitise your notes. I'm really annoyed, I loved their paper for writing but the visual junk just throws the whole page off. That was what set me off on the hunt that led to Silvine - it's not quite as awesome as Oxford but it works for fountain pens, comes as both notebooks and refll pads, and it's not cluttered up with irrelevant noise.

 

1 hour ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

Each company has it's very own standards and for good reasons. They overlap the standards of other companies.........so once Parker was wider than Shaffer. Parker made wider so back in the day of One Man One Pen, and a new pen every decade, the customer wouldn't make a horrible mistake get confused in nib width and buy a Shaffer instead....if they made a nib as narrow as Shaffer; such mistakes could be made.

 

I actually love Parker ballpoint refills precisely because they're still much fatter than standard! So much more pleasant to write with. I don't care that my Jotter ballpoint is so skinny my hands cramp if I use it for too long. (I should be using a FP for writing of any length anyway, right? :) )

 

[twigletzone]

17 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Maybe this Sailor pen model with a (Naginata togi) Broad nib? Big, broad, nice quality, and I doubt any Sailor pen writes ‘wet’ compared to European brands such as Pelikan and Waterman.

 

This colour for the same pen model is even more attractive (to my eyes):

https://sailor.co.jp/product/10-7117/

 

400 units of each colour were released (200 for the Japanese domestic market, and 200 for international markets, if I'm not mistaken).

 

... that red one! It looks like it's been boiled in acid! Poor thing, I want to bandage it up until it's better.

 

Great pen for a zombie fan, maybe?

 

I actually meant big nibs rather than physically huge pens, my mistake. I have to say I'm a bit wary of chasing limited editions, that way lies serious financial outlay... but Sailor do seem to have some very budget-friendly pens too. That could be a line of investigation before I shell out big money on a fancy one. As could Platinum, if I can ever catch a B nib in stock on any of their models anywhere. I swear they run away when they hear me coming.

 

18 hours ago, sandy101 said:

The Parson's Essential from Mr Pen works very well with Diamine ink. 

 

Platinum would fit the bill, but you'd want a broad nib to show off the inks colours.

 

A Visconti  Van Gough would also make a nice option.  Beautiful pens that write on the dry side (in my opinion). If you order from The Writing Desk, they'll test the nib before they send it to you. 

 

 

 

Parson's Essential is on my "to buy some day" list. Good to know, thanks!

 

Hadn't realised Visconti make pens that sell for less than £500... I liked the look of the one that's made from Mt Etna lava but it's a "when I win the lottery" job. The price of the Van Gogh is the far outer edge of what my budget can stretch to for an occasional treat right now, and I'm not in love with those loud resins either; the wheatfield one is just about tolerable maybe. But again, good to know. Thank you for the suggestions :)

 

19 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

I have a bunch of MBs, all bought used/second hand and similar in price to what I paid for my last Lamy 2000. Most of mine are the 1960s vintage 12/14/22/24, and all of those have been in the $100-200 range. Surprising enough, one of my least expensive was a 24 OB(oblique broad), although my 12 OBB was closer to $200. 
 

A nice 146, which to me is as close to a perfect pen as is made, can be had for $250-300, although the big nibs tend to be at the upper end of that price. 

 

My budget at the moment is "ideally not over £150". The M200 came in just under that since I went with the steel nib. That's about $210 US. So it might be plausible... but, yeah, post M200 I'm going to let the wallet recover for a while!

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, twigletzone said:

I actually meant big nibs rather than physically huge pens, my mistake.

 

That's why I originally suggested,

20 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Surely a Platinum #3776 or President with a C nib would fit the bill?

 

Their pen bodies aren't that large at all, but the C (for Coarse) nib is the broadest nib Platinum has to offer.

[twigletzone]

Just now, A Smug Dill said:

 

That's why I originally suggested,

 

Their pen bodies aren't that large at all, but the C (for Coarse) nib is the broadest nib Platinum has to offer.

Ah! That's what C means. I meant to ask when I saw your original comment, it must have fallen out the other ear. I don't think I've seen a Platinum C  for sale, unless most places just list it as a B?

[A Smug Dill]

40 minutes ago, twigletzone said:

I don't think I've seen a Platinum C  for sale, unless most places just list it as a B?

 

You can blame retailers for not using nib width grades that are consistent with how Platinum designates them.

Source: Platinum Pen

 

Source: Platinum Pen

 

Source: Cult Pens

 

Source: La Couronne du Comte

 

[brokenclay]

1 hour ago, twigletzone said:

 

Parson's Essential is on my "to buy some day" list. Good to know, thanks!

 

 

If so, you should do so sooner rather than later as Peter Ford is shutting down. I think only black, burgundy, and "purple" (I have one, it's blue) are still available.

 

http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/about.html

 

http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d184.html

[twigletzone]

15 hours ago, brokenclay said:

 

If so, you should do so sooner rather than later as Peter Ford is shutting down. I think only black, burgundy, and "purple" (I have one, it's blue) are still available.

 

http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/about.html

 

http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d184.html

Ooh! Thank you for the heads-up. Burgundy was actualy the one I liked so no issue there :)

 

So many nib choices though...  actual cursive italic. To the reviews section, Batman!