144 Vermeil - not 925 stamping

[LargeSofa]

Hi,

 

could someone explain to me about the 144 solitaire gold colored. I bought one recently, it is definitely genuine. Clip ring says Metal 3, with serial number. But there is no 925 stamping on the cap. So what kind of metal is it, steel that's gold plated? Are some of these 925, plated?

 

Here too is an example with no 925 stamp? I am not affiliated with this auction. Just wondering what kind of metal this also might be.

 

Thanks 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/173749599120

 

 

 

 

 

[Rowbo]

If it isn't hallmarked it is not solid precious metal. Vermeil is gold plated over 925 (sterling) silver. The gold stops the silver from tarnishing. There are variants of the 144 that are gold plated base metal and therefore are not hallmarked (apart from the nib).

 

The clip is likely plated brass even on hallmarked pens as solid gold and silver are not springy enough. Hence the clip is marked separately as 'metal' to distinguish it.

 

The example you link to may have been incorrectly identified.

[LargeSofa]

I think you make a fair point about the clip, okay, that's Metal 3, but the body on the pen I acquired, a pinstripe Vermeil, is not marked .925. seems odd to me. I guess it's not silver. Penni's def real. Not the pen in the ebay ad, I just used that for photo reference. Thanks

[LargeSofa]

Yeah, I'm just totally confused. When I search mont blanc 144 solitaire on ebay, some of the pens are markedn925, some not....did they make this pen in some sterling silver, other not. But same outer design, like pinstripe, barley, etc.

 

[mizgeorge]

It may depend on where it was from. In the UK, for example, it is not legal to hallmark vermeil. A fineness mark may be applied in the form of '925 & 18ct gold plated' and a '925' mark may be applied to items weighing less than 7.78g (the exemption weight for sterling silver hallmarking) but that's all. Except for items made before 1950. The whole reasoning behind this is that no hallmark may be applied to an item that cannot be immediately identified as what it actually is.  

 

Similar rules apply in some European countries, but they are by no means standardised. It's a very confusing subject!

 

The only way to be absolutely sure is to have it tested, but by someone who understands what they're doing and either uses the correct equipment or can perform an acid test in a hidden area.

[LargeSofa]

Thanks. Well I wonder what mont blanc officially produced. Did they make these solitaire vermeil versions in sterling silver AND also some other metal... I guess in the end doesn't really matter.

 

Bought a month Blanc agenda for 190 on ebay, it included this 144 pen...its definitely real. I've owned many 144s over the years. Amazing. I'm going to sell the agenda for like $100.

 

Certainly one of my better scores!!!

[Rowbo]

Hi

I incorrectly referred to a fineness mark as a hallmark.

 

According to the collectible stars website here, the 2923 is the model number for a gold plated brass 144.

 

It will not be marked '925', however it looks identical to the 1445 vermeil , which can be marked 925.

 

 

[LargeSofa]

Thanks. That makes a ton more sense.

 

[dhanvantari]

I have acquired one without a hallmark or fineness mark. Is this a 2923, moreover Is it genuine?..

[meiers]

The cartridge-converter is NOT authentic. I am thinking this pen is not a Montblanc made in Hamburg but a Mont Blanc made somewhere else. 
 

Where did you find this writing instrument?

[dhanvantari]

I obtained it from eBay Item no:284174986255

or 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Luxury-Montblanc-Meisterstuck-4810-Fountain-Pen-/284174986255?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=XhfJ8t5wpeQrEpMTbp0dGCB4id8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

[Dione]

meiers is correct and those pictures are of a fairly common copy. The pinstripe pattern is not correct and the company brand name is Montblanc all one word not two separate words like the mountain as seen on the converter. Since the converter isn't authentic it is doubtful that it would be sold with an authentic Montblanc pen or even fit into one properly. Also that price is a small fraction of the price of an authentic Montblanc model 2923.

[CS388]

Another giveaway is the very weak imprint on the nib.

 

Better luck, next time.

[meiers]

I was wondering about the imprint on the nib, too. I suggest returning the pen and getting your money refunded. PayPal is your friend in situations like this. But act quickly because there is a timeline. 

[dhanvantari]

The nib was magnetic too and the serial number figured in many internet replicas. As Dione pointed out this pattern does not figure in any catalogue

Or CollectibleStars.

 

Thank you very much for your helpful comments and advice. I will proceed to seek a Return & Refund, whilst reporting the seller to eBay. 

[Dione]

If you bought it on ebay then you should file a case with them. You request a return on the form. Looking through the seller's sold items this may not be the only fake Montblanc he has sold. Perhaps phone ebay up and ask what to do in the first instance.

[dhanvantari]

Thank you Dione,

 

It is not easy to see if the seller has missold such replica items before. Best is, as you suggest talk to eBay.

 

The fact is that the item is a replica and the description does not say it is a replica.

 

Sold by misrepresenting & Selling Replicas, both are forbidden ? ? and frowned upon by eBay.

[Dione]

You should have no need to worry. ebay policy: you get what you paid for or your money back will apply. In previous days the seller wouldn't have been allowed to have a fake returned in case he sold it again but that's probably changed. He will have to pay for a return label if he wants it back....

[gerigo]

Dhanvantari, thanks for sharing the pen you bought with the group. Unfortunately a great example of how you should do quite thorough research to educate yourself on how to tell a fake from the real thing.

 

As I have always said, the 2 telltale signs, fake converter, and fake nib. The fake nib in this case is harder to tell but the fake converter is a dead give away. I have frankly never seen a higher end 144/ 145 with a cheap converter.  Most people would either buy the real one, or get an international converter that would either say Schmidt or another pen companies name. Those fake converters are actually difficult to come by because it can't be sold without raising the ire of Montblanc. 
 

I hope you're able to get your money back.

[dhanvantari]

Thank you,

 

I checked the sellers old sale inventory.

Has sold 6 Montblanc items, 2 showing serial number which, predictably is the same one (also found same serial on internet replicas).

The nib is magnetic and has faint imprint, The snowcap has overflow imperfections, The pinstripe design her does not exist as a genuine Montblanc, there is a nib/feeder mismatch......

 

I got in touch with eBay, they have promised a full refund.

 

The seller is expressing surprise and says he has provided me with Serial number etc which is genuine. I did not want to reply and let him know that another dissimilar Montblanc that he has sold also has the same serial number (an impossibility if genuine) and of course the fake filler.

 

I will sleep well tonight, thanks to forum members alerting me to the items faults.

 

Regards,

 

RS