Which ink sample cards?

[Plume145]

Hey all, hope this is the right place to post, if not feel free to move 🙂

 

I'm looking to make myself an ink sampler, like this. 

 

I've found several options for pre-made cards, and have the necessary tools and experience to make my own from larger sheets, so I'm looking for feedback and experiences with each to help me settle on one. 

 

The most important thing is obviously consistent paper stock, so I'm comparing like with like. For the same reason, white would be best. I generally favour smooth paper over textured, so I guess I should probably go in that direction for the samplers too, but maybe they need to have just a teensy bit more tooth than I normally go for in writing paper (I generally use Rhodia/Clairefontaine/Exacompta or similarly smooth Japanese papers like Kokuyo or Midori MD). I don't need pre-printed layout and guidelines on my cards, although if they're there I won't mind. 

 

I'm looking at the ones on Shigure inks, plus I've got loads of Exacompta index cards I could use (but, are those consistent?) Have you guys tried the Shiguro ones? Do you know if Exacompta are consistent for sure? Any other paper stock you can think of? (Either pre-made like Col-o-ring etc, or just consistent paper stock that I could use to cut to size myself, especially anything easy to come by in Europe, like Fabriano or other art papers). 

 

Just looking to brain-storm a little. I apologise if this gets asked all the time; I ran a search but didn't get much of anywhere, just separate reviews and no comparing. I've been out of the FP scene for a long time so I haven't kept up with this and may not be aware of a resource, but if you point me to it I'll gladly use it 🙂

 

[A Smug Dill]

I bought a stack of Arttec Como Sketch Pads (A3-sized 210gsm mixed media art paper) for that. It's better than the Canson Drawing 220 Pad (220gsm mixed media art paper), in my opinion and experience, for the purpose.

 

Retail-packaged ink sampling cards are too expensive for what they are, in my opinion; and nothing I found in ‘cheap’ stores such as Daiso and Muji suited.

[mizgeorge]

19 minutes ago, Plume145 said:

I've found several options for pre-made cards, and have the necessary tools and experience to make my own from larger sheets, so I'm looking for feedback and experiences with each to help me settle on one. 

 

I recently went through a similar exercise, and tried various formats, weights, colours and sizes, even down to cutting down Exacompta index cards with my terrifying guillotine, making board covers and using my super duper Japanese paper punch for the holes...

 

Then I bought some Col-o-rings and actually got round to starting on the process of swatching my inks. I decided my time was more valuable to me than worrying about how overpriced they were.

[Plume145]

2 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

Retail-packaged ink sampling cards are too expensive for what they are, in my opinion; and nothing I found in ‘cheap’ stores such as Daiso and Muji suited.

Yeah man, that's my thinking too! I don't mind paying for the convenience, but I'm also pretty handy so I can do either. OTOH, I don't have hundreds of inks to sample, only about 140, so I wouldn't get big economies of scale from DIYing even with already owning all of the necessary tools (plus I just realised I'd still have to go to the copy shop to cut down, which is a hassle in times of covid and I'm antsy to get this finished. Hmmm)

[Plume145]

2 minutes ago, mizgeorge said:

 

I recently went through a similar exercise, and tried various formats, weights, colours and sizes, even down to cutting down Exacompta index cards with my terrifying guillotine, making board covers and using my super duper Japanese paper punch for the holes...

 

Then I bought some Col-o-rings and actually got round to starting on the process of swatching my inks. I decided my time was more valuable to me than worrying about how overpriced they were.

Yeah, there's a lot of that haha. Though I gotta say, with DIYing I'm less concerned about the time involved than about the difficulty of picking consistent paper. I already make most of my notebooks (single-signature type, for fauxdori covers) & I've gotten it to a level of proficiency where it's actually the lazy option. It's way faster than to trek downtown and pick up one of a limited choice and less of a hassle than to slog through a bunch of results online for the best deal. Now I put on music, and by the time the album's through I've knocked out 2-3 of these. 

 

So the advantage of pre-made cards is they're pretty much guaranteed to have consistent stock, and I don't have to sweat that. But they're harder to come by especially in Europe (which also makes them a lot higher in price because of the shipping). 

[sombrueil]

I just got the col-o-ring cards and am having a great time fooling with them.
I gleaned the tip from an old FPN thread to use a plastic palette knife to spread the ink. Genius! And then a glass pen to write the ink's name. I don't know why this exercise is so satisfying, but it is. 

[Plume145]

Just now, sombrueil said:

I just got the col-o-ring cards and am having a great time fooling with them.
I gleaned the tip from an old FPN thread to use a plastic palette knife to spread the ink. Genius! And then a glass pen to write the ink's name. I don't know why this exercise is so satisfying, but it is. 

😊 isn't it though?? I've done It once already, but it was on the wrong kind of paper (didn't bring up shading well, and I'm pretty much all about the shading...whoops). Plus it was a tricky format (B7-ish 2-hole binders, not easy for side-by-side comparisons). So now I'll be redoing it. Looking forward to how ridiculously satisfying and relaxing it is! Kind of daydreaming about keeping it till spring and doing it outside on a picnic blanket for a bit of covid-safe fun. 

 

I use the glass pen for the name too!! Probably off the same thread you got it too haha

[Dione]

5 hours ago, sombrueil said:

I just got the col-o-ring cards and am having a great time fooling with them.
I gleaned the tip from an old FPN thread to use a plastic palette knife to spread the ink. Genius! And then a glass pen to write the ink's name. I don't know why this exercise is so satisfying, but it is. 

Mine are Col-O-Ring cards and thanks for the additional tips. 

[Plume145]

Kind-of bumping (hope that's okay) because I would love to get some more ideas, if anyone has them

 

I think all in all I'm not going to bother with the other styles of pre-made cards available on Shigure besides Col-o-ring. The other ones (eg Limonaired, Tsubame, etc) are all pre-printed and while the layouts look really good, I think I'll enjoy filling out the plain type more! 

 

But, that also means there's really no reason not to DIY these. As long as I can find the right kind of paper stock. Any ideas?

 

I did find out after starting this thread that there is another one of these out there that is blank like Col-o-ring, it's called Rosetta and made by ipenstore. Unfortunately, it costs oner $60 to ship to just one so I won't be trying it, but for any US readers reading this thread for recommendations that might be useful!

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, Plume145 said:

But, that also means there's really no reason not to DIY these. As long as I can find the right kind of paper stock. Any ideas?

 

I already told you mine.

 

My other idea, for pre-printed test cards, is to take an example swatch card to a print shop that produces high-grade business cards, and ask them if they have suitable card stock, that is apt to exhibit sheen (without glossy paper coating that makes ink marks prone to smudging) but not feathering. It'd be easier for me to order a run of 500 cards than to cut them from A3 sheets and then stamp the swatch card design on them myself individually.

[Paul-in-SF]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:15 PM, sombrueil said:

I just got the col-o-ring cards and am having a great time fooling with them.
I gleaned the tip from an old FPN thread to use a plastic palette knife to spread the ink. Genius! And then a glass pen to write the ink's name. I don't know why this exercise is so satisfying, but it is. 

Curious why a plastic palette knife? I've been using a metal letter opener, it seems to work okay. Better than swabs anyway.

 

Full disclosure: I'm not as exacting in this area as some folks here. I only use swatch cards so I can remember what inks I have and (approximately!) what they look like. I have used both Office Depot business card stock (punch out cards from a letter-size sheet) and Col-o-ring cards, the effect seems very similar. And I store them in a large A4 size Japanese business card binder with plastic sheets that have 10 pockets per side, which does allow enough side-by-side comparisons for my purposes. It's great for moving swatches around too, as I get more colors in a particular color group and want to subdivide in a different way. 

[sombrueil]

Well, it is flexible, so you can make  lines and swooshes. But mainly because I had one. The discussion was "what is better than a cotton swab?" Clearly there are other objects that could be used. My letter opener is an heirloom from my old-money in-laws so I don't think I would use it that way. 

[inkstainedruth]

A few years ago I picked up a few of the really small (No. 10 size, 2"x2.9") Rhodia pads -- I picked up the first one back when Art Brown's was still at their old location in Manhattan.  Pretty inexpensive and consistent paper (they're top staple bound.

I also of course do full tests/sampling on some cheap Piccadilly spiral bound sketch books, but the paper in those is pretty terrible and often does weird things to the ink colors.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Plume145]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I already told you mine.

 

My other idea, for pre-printed test cards, is to take an example swatch card to a print shop that produces high-grade business cards, and ask them if they have suitable card stock, that is apt to exhibit sheen (without glossy paper coating that makes ink marks prone to smudging) but not feathering. It'd be easier for me to order a run of 500 cards than to cut them from A3 sheets and then stamp the swatch card design on them myself individually.

You did! I'm trying to locate them right now. Arttec is an Australian brand that imports from the UK and France, so I'm looking at that. Canson is definitely available here, so that's a good backup. 

 

To be honest it's looking like the smartest way is to just suck it up and accept I'll have to go make the rounds of the art stores, round up a bunch of samples/single sheets of likely-looking papers to test at home, then go back and buy more to cut to size. 

 

I'd buy the Col-o-ring but with shipping from the US it's going to add up to about US$35 or more, and that's too big an investment when there's a risk that I'll know it's wrong right from the first line. If I could I'd just buy a sample of col-o-ring but I asked her once and she wasn't able to do that, so that's a non-starter too :-/

 

I don't need pre-printed cards! When I first started the thread I was neutral - didn't care either way - but later I realised blanks would suit me better. So that's even easier to DIY. 

 

1 hour ago, Paul-in-SF said:

Curious why a plastic palette knife? I've been using a metal letter opener, it seems to work okay. Better than swabs anyway.

 

Full disclosure: I'm not as exacting in this area as some folks here. I only use swatch cards so I can remember what inks I have and (approximately!) what they look like. I have used both Office Depot business card stock (punch out cards from a letter-size sheet) and Col-o-ring cards, the effect seems very similar. And I store them in a large A4 size Japanese business card binder with plastic sheets that have 10 pockets per side, which does allow enough side-by-side comparisons for my purposes. It's great for moving swatches around too, as I get more colors in a particular color group and want to subdivide in a different way. 

That's a great system! There's this artist, Nick Stewart, who uses fountain pen ink in his work, and he also makes swatches  both to use in art and to sell, and he uses pretty much the same system you do 🙂

 

I use the samples for much the same reasons as you. But I do want the consistent paper because shading/sheen matter a lot to me (beyond just color). 

1 hour ago, sombrueil said:

Well, it is flexible, so you can make  lines and swooshes. But mainly because I had one. The discussion was "what is better than a cotton swab?" Clearly there are other objects that could be used. My letter opener is an heirloom from my old-money in-laws so I don't think I would use it that way. 

That's good to know! I didn't know the swabs were a bad way. I'd only ever seen swabs, but that was several years ago when I first did this sampling thing. I'll have to try and track down this thread! 

56 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

A few years ago I picked up a few of the really small (No. 10 size, 2"x2.9") Rhodia pads -- I picked up the first one back when Art Brown's was still at their old location in Manhattan.  Pretty inexpensive and consistent paper (they're top staple bound.

I also of course do full tests/sampling on some cheap Piccadilly spiral bound sketch books, but the paper in those is pretty terrible and often does weird things to the ink colors.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

I know the ones you mean! They're great little notepads. But I think I need sturdier/thicker stock, plus I think all of the no. 10 pads have lines or grids, there's no blanks. 

[AmandaW]

I use 200gsm Quill board from Officeworks and cut the A4 down to business card size (cos I use business card holders to keep them in). I noticed they also have 300gsm business card blanks, but haven't tried them. Yet.

[A Smug Dill]

11 minutes ago, Plume145 said:

But I do want the consistent paper because shading/sheen matter a lot to me (beyond just color). 

...‹snip›...

That's good to know! I didn't know the swabs were a bad way. I'd only ever seen swabs, but that was several years ago when I first did this sampling thing.

 

Whether swabs are ‘bad’, useless or (even some passive but vocal consumers of others' ink reviews, who don't seem to be spending much time, effort and money producing and publishing their own) depends greatly what you want the swatch card to inform you when you revisit it.

 

If you want to see what the colour would be like when the ink is spread thinly (and that is something that could arise from writing and/or drawing with a ‘dry’ nib) on the paper, the single-pass part in the typical one-two-three-passes swabbing is OK, and leaves a wide track or patch that makes it easier on the viewer's concentration. That approach isn't too bad for demonstrating the potential or aptness of an ink (evaluated in its own right) to exhibit shading. If someone isn't getting the shading out of the ink that they thought they would having seen the swabs, I'd say it's primarily attributable to their failing to choose or use the ‘right’ pen and/or technique to cajole the range of shades from the ink.

 

A ‘general’ — or someone else's — ink swatch isn't meant to tell the individual viewer whether he/she would get that the same levels of shading and sheen from that ink for his/her writing using his/her preferred pen(s), nib(s), type(s) of paper, technique (including but not limited to writing pressure, speed, precision). It's to showcase and offer information about an ink, not the outcomes of writing (or drawing) with it.

 

Obviously, if it's your ink swatch card that you're preparing for your own use primarily or exclusively, then matching how you test or swatch the ink to your real-world use cases is better, even if it narrows the application. With >300 pens and umpteen different types of journals, notebooks and notepads here I have by the dozen each, writing with a Sailor 14K gold EF nib on Midori MD paper to produce a writing sample won't really tell me how the ink will look coming out of a Pelikan M20x steel F nib on a page in a Rhodia Webnotebook. Besides, I'm never going to use >200gsm mixed media art paper or business card stock for everyday note-taking or journalling; but if I'm going to be handling the swatch cards repeatedly over a number of months or years, then I want the substrate to be more robust than 80–100gsm paper from a notebook.

 

What I don't like about using cotton swabs myself is that they soak up more ink than is strictly required to make the marks. The low price and ready availability of Q-tips make ‘consuming’ and disposing one or even two sticks per ink swatch a trivial concern, compared to the limited volume of ink I have (in cases where I only have a sample or a ≤10ml retail product), the effective price per ml if I need to acquire more, or just the sheer difficulty in getting some of the shop- or region-exclusive inks, even if they aren't limited edition or have otherwise been discontinued.

 

Furthermore, the roughness of the cotton usually damages the wetted paper surface by the third pass, even on hardy paper such as the Arttec and Canson mixed media pads.

[AmandaW]

42 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

Besides, I'm never going to use >200gsm mixed media art paper or business card stock for everyday note-taking or journalling; but if I'm going to be handling the swatch cards repeatedly over a number of months or years, then I want the substrate to be more robust than 80–100gsm paper from a notebook.

 

Whereas I do use the art card for pen and ink drawings (with light washes) so it was to hand and known to work when I began swatching my inks for my personal use. What was more important to me than the actual choice was to then continue using the same stock to make comparison between inks fair.

 

I also make notes on the back of my swatch cards of anything notable that comes up when used on other papers or with other pens.

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, AmandaW said:

What was more important to me than the actual choice was to then continue using the same stock to make comparison between inks fair.

 

Absolutely. Which is why I bought a few of the Arttec Como pads in one go (so that they're from the same batch; I noticed the cover has changed since I bought the first pad for experimentation, maybe 18 months ago), and 200 round sheets of lab filter paper (because I was at risk of running out if I were to cut two-inch squares from my first lot of 100, having experimented with and ‘wasted’ a dozen sheets), etc. for my ink cataloguing.

[Plume145]

1 hour ago, AmandaW said:

I use 200gsm Quill board from Officeworks and cut the A4 down to business card size (cos I use business card holders to keep them in). I noticed they also have 300gsm business card blanks, but haven't tried them. Yet.

Thanks! There's no OfficeWorks where I am but I'm keeping the 200-300gsm recommendation 🙂

59 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Whether swabs are ‘bad’, useless or (even some passive but vocal consumers of others' ink reviews, who don't seem to be spending much time, effort and money producing and publishing their own) depends greatly what you want the swatch card to inform you when you revisit it.

 

If you want to see what the colour would be like when the ink is spread thinly (and that is something that could arise from writing and/or drawing with a ‘dry’ nib) on the paper, the single-pass part in the typical one-two-three-passes swabbing is OK, and leaves a wide track or patch that makes it easier on the viewer's concentration. That approach isn't too bad for demonstrating the potential or aptness of an ink (evaluated in its own right) to exhibit shading. If someone isn't getting the shading out of the ink that they thought they would having seen the swabs, I'd say it's primarily attributable to their failing to choose or use the ‘right’ pen and/or technique to cajole the range of shades from the ink.

 

A ‘general’ — or someone else's — ink swatch isn't meant to tell the individual viewer whether he/she would get that the same levels of shading and sheen from that ink for his/her writing using his/her preferred pen(s), nib(s), type(s) of paper, technique (including but not limited to writing pressure, speed, precision). It's to showcase and offer information about an ink, not the outcomes of writing (or drawing) with it.

 

Obviously, if it's your ink swatch card that you're preparing for your own use primarily or exclusively, then matching how you test or swatch the ink to your real-world use cases is better, even if it narrows the application. With >300 pens and umpteen different types of journals, notebooks and notepads here I have by the dozen each, writing with a Sailor 14K gold EF nib on Midori MD paper to produce a writing sample won't really tell me how the ink will look coming out of a Pelikan M20x steel F nib on a page in a Rhodia Webnotebook. Besides, I'm never going to use >200gsm mixed media art paper or business card stock for everyday note-taking or journalling; but if I'm going to be handling the swatch cards repeatedly over a number of months or years, then I want the substrate to be more robust than 80–100gsm paper from a notebook.

 

What I don't like about using cotton swabs myself is that they soak up more ink than is strictly required to make the marks. The low price and ready availability of Q-tips make ‘consuming’ and disposing one or even two sticks per ink swatch a trivial concern, compared to the limited volume of ink I have (in cases where I only have a sample or a ≤10ml retail product), the effective price per ml if I need to acquire more, or just the sheer difficulty in getting some of the shop- or region-exclusive inks, even if they aren't limited edition or have otherwise been discontinued.

 

Furthermore, the roughness of the cotton usually damages the wetted paper surface by the third pass, even on hardy paper such as the Arttec and Canson mixed media pads.

Oh man, that's a lot to take in! And I'm not sure I am taking it in, like I understand it conceptually, but I haven't really got the experience with it, if it makes sense? TBH I think I'll just be happy with some consistent white cardstock sturdy enough to withstand some handling. Anything more than that's probably a little out of my league  But I will try something non-absorbent to spread the ink! One thing that did bother me about Q-tips is how many I ended up wasting to get all the inks down so that's one non-ink-related reason to use something else 🙂

 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

7 minutes ago, Plume145 said:

And I'm not sure I am taking it in, like I understand it conceptually, but I haven't really got the experience with it, if it makes sense?

 

For illustration, here are some of my earlier experiments:

 

The swatch card has very little to capture how an ink would look when I'm writing with it. I'll cut out squares of my most commonly used types of paper to do actual writing samples on them for each ink in the catalogue; the swatch cards will just be my initial visual filter for narrowing down the field of candidates when selecting an ink with which to fill a pen.