Why Do People Specifically Use Fp For Signatures?

[ISW_Kaputnik]

A reminder that some lawyers, in my experience US lawyers, require important documents to be signed with a fountain pen with black ink. A business was sold 3 years ago to a US company, the contract documents were required to be signed by fountain pen and stipulated in the covering letter.

 

It is therefore not correct to say that any permanent rollerball or ballpoint pen would be considered to serve the purpose just as well, this cannot be accepted as a certainty in every case whereas signing by fountain pen, in my experience, is always fit for purpose.

 

Is that actually a legal requirement, or is it just a policy used by particular lawyer's offices? I'm willing to believe either, and it might vary from state to state. But my only experience with signing important documents (which had to do with the settlement of an estate and the sale of a house) was that a ballpoint was perfectly acceptable, and was what the lawyer had. Mind you, I had a fountain pen with me anyway.

 

If it's just a policy adopted by particular lawyers, and if one was argumentative, one might say "if there isn't an actual law requiring me to use a fountain pen, I'm going use my trusty Bic Cristal. After all, I'm paying you a lot of money; my preferences should count for something". Although I personally would not say that.

 

Again, I'm willing to believe anything that is demonstrated to me.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ISW_Kaputnik

[Fermata]

 

Is that actually a legal requirement, or is it just a policy used by particular lawyer's offices? I'm willing to believe either, and it might vary from state to state. But my only experience with signing important documents (which had to do with the settlement of an estate and the sale of a house) was that a ballpoint was perfectly acceptable, and was what the lawyer had. Mind you, I had a fountain pen with me anyway.

 

If it's just a policy adopted by particular lawyers, and if one was argumentative, one might say "if there isn't an actual law requiring me to use a fountain pen, I'm going use my trusty Bic Cristal. After all, I'm paying you a lot of money; my preferences should count for something". Although I personally would not say that.

 

Again, I'm willing to believe anything that is demonstrated to me.

 

 

I have had a similar experience, well two I suppose. I went to see a client to take instructions on a case and made notes as I saw him, when I got back to the office I sent Minutes of the Meeting. Some years later the subject of the meeting was questionned and went to Court. I was asked if I had anything apart from the Minutes to substantiate what had been said. I produced my notebook with a dated record written in fountain pen ink. The judge said the she would not have accepted a computer document and because a ballpoint pen ink can be erased and altered she would only allow my notebook as evidence.

 

I also sold a house and seperate motel in Florida, the documents for sale came through and were signed and returned in ballpoint, new copies were then sent and the buyer's lawyer said that they would only accept my signature in ink.

 

I am sure that there is no law requiring documents to be in ink, that would be silly, I suspect that it is just good practice and part of the due dilligence process, either that or a Lecturer in Law somewhere had some bee in his bonnet and wanted to pass on the message that there should be a permanent record and a signature was not to be taken lightly.

 

I am also aware that most if not all London lawyers take all their notes in ink and only sign in ink.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Parkette

[PAKMAN]

Don't like to sign store receipts with a FP as the paper is not very good for signing and they take it so quickly that it is likely to smear. I did sign my marriage license with my favorite Blue stripe Pelikan M800!

[sciumbasci]

Anything but a ballpoint - in black - is seen as a nightmarish byproduct of hippie culture at the office I work in. Or something like that.

 

When I started off, I had colorful pens, both ballpoints and fountain pen inks, to play around. I like turquoise and purple, and everything was fine until I got stern looks for handing out a paper signed in turquoise.

 

Or a note in Scabiosa.

 

I went back into more Conservative colours, blue, blueblack and black.

Boss prefers black tho,not sure he ever laid enough attention to blue black iron gall to see it wasn't quite black.

 

Sign anything in any colour but black is a big no no. I tried to explain that using blue is easier to distinguish between original and photocopies but he'd rather have everything in black.

[bayindirh]

Sign anything in any colour but black is a big no no. I tried to explain that using blue is easier to distinguish between original and photocopies but he'd rather have everything in black.

We cannot sign anything in black. Only possible color is blue to be able to distinguish the originals from the photocopies. I sometimes sneak in Uniball's Blue Black. They generally don't tell me anything because I'm considered one of that maniacs. I don't abuse that privilege though.

[BaronWulfraed]

We cannot sign anything in black. Only possible color is blue to be able to distinguish the originals from the photocopies. I sometimes sneak in Uniball's Blue Black. They generally don't tell me anything because I'm considered one of that maniacs. I don't abuse that privilege though.

That was a valid reason in the days of Black only photocopiers... But in these days of color copiers, the ink color is insufficient -- one needs to look at the signature with a microscope hoping to detect signs of dot matrix deposition of dye (ink jet, though some photo printers use pigmented inks) or pigment (laser toner tends to be waxy).

 

Trivia -- if you watch Disney animated movies from the 40s through the 60s you can spot when they changed from manual inking to using photocopiers. Disney had developed the technique of having the the inkers (those who transferred pencil drawings to animation cels) use pens loaded with inks in the same color (or close to it) as would be used by the painters (those who filled in the inked outlines) -- thereby making the ink lines near invisible. Then came "101 Dalmatians" (as I recall, it was this movie) which used photocopiers that only produced black lines to transfer drawings to cels. Since the lines would be so noticeable, it was decided to make the entire movie in an art style that emphasized said lines; even in background paintings.

[bayindirh]

That was a valid reason in the days of Black only photocopiers... But in these days of color copiers, the ink color is insufficient -- one needs to look at the signature with a microscope hoping to detect signs of dot matrix deposition of dye (ink jet, though some photo printers use pigmented inks) or pigment (laser toner tends to be waxy).

 

Trivia -- if you watch Disney animated movies from the 40s through the 60s you can spot when they changed from manual inking to using photocopiers. Disney had developed the technique of having the the inkers (those who transferred pencil drawings to animation cels) use pens loaded with inks in the same color (or close to it) as would be used by the painters (those who filled in the inked outlines) -- thereby making the ink lines near invisible. Then came "101 Dalmatians" (as I recall, it was this movie) which used photocopiers that only produced black lines to transfer drawings to cels. Since the lines would be so noticeable, it was decided to make the entire movie in an art style that emphasized said lines; even in background paintings.

 

In theory yes, but in practice it's not so easy. Even with pigment printers you miss two important details. Tactile feedback & exact color. I generally sign with a slight pressure so, a finger can detect a signatures path on the paper. It's not very possible with a printer.

 

The second one is the exact color reproduction. We obsess over Nathan's warden & bulletproof inks with pigments and dyes of exotic shades but, some of the conventional pen producers are not oblivious to some facts. Let's return to Uniball. Especially Elite and Air series. These pens' inks behave like a FP ink. They shade. Also they're pigmented and bulletproof inks. Moreover, their shades cannot be easily reproduced. Uni's blue is reminiscent of Noodler's Ottoman Azure. Blue Black is a strange but captivating shade of blue, black and teal-green. Even the most accurate color capturing cameras have some color divergence with the source, hence these inks have more prominent color variations when copied. So they can be easily spotted. Lastly, Uniball air allows a slight line variation with pressure, so it behaves like a fountain pen with almost rigid nib.

 

Unless you have a robot arm to reproduce your signatures, this is very hard to forge and copy as-is.

[max dog]

FPs can make your signature standout over ballpoint.

[eclectic2316]

A signature is one of the few ways to mark individuality.

Thus, a fountain pen, in my opinion, is the best tool to convey importance and distinctness of both the document and the signer..

[bunnspecial]

I got married back in October, and before the ceremony entrusted my beloved 146 loaded with some of my dwindling supply of MB Midnight Blue(IG, fortunately I have two more bottles on the way).

 

In the US, all that is needed for the officiant and witnesses to sign. We do have photos of everyone signing, but only mine was with an FP. Everyone else used a disposable ballpoint supplied by the hotel where we had the reception-in other words a pen one step below a Bic...

 

In general, I write with a fountain pen 99% of the time, so I will sign things with the FP I have with me or that I used to write the rest of the document. Funny enough, when I go to sign credit card receipts I’ll use the pen provided unless it doesn’t write or whatever, then the one in my pocket comes out. With many places now making a big deal out of “sanitizing” pens between use, I’ll also sometimes offer my own to save them having to do that. As an add on to that, though, I have a fair “home made” BPs that I’ve been given or have bought. The majority of those take Parker refills, and I always put a genuine Parker in them, so they write fairly nicely and if I have one of those I’ll use that for slick paper signatures. 
 

I have to admit, though, that a big broad nib, especially a pseudo-stub like a Montblanc, carries a certain weight. That’s especially true if it’s on a giant pen like a 149. 

[sgphototn]

I've made it a point this year to bring my Yard-O-Led GV with KWZ IG Blue Black to any signing of legal papers. I've had more paper signings this year than in the past five years with lawyers, banks, and financial advisors. It creates discussions and show-n-tells.

 

Sometimes, in the future, it may be valuable to be remembered.

 

[ParramattaPaul]

The paperwork for the purchase of my youngest son's home was done with one of my inexpensive Platignum fountain pens that I had leant him.  It made the experience more memorable for all involved.  It also created a good deal of pen interest for the estate agent and the legal staff.